New here , 58 under bed tank questions and more

[JimDirt]

Hi all , hopefully i can get some guidance here , i recently inherited my dads 58 Chevy Apache32 Long Bed Stepside , it already has a 69 350HP 350 with a Turbo400 trans , that my dad had installed in 1969 , this is the truck i would go on trips from California to Ontario Canada in starting when i was 7 years old , i am now 56 , my dad died in 2003 , one of my brothers got the truck , he was 65 and died of cancer just this past June , so now its mine , it was running/driving when my dad had it , the cam went flat right after my brother got it , and it has not run since 2005 , my brother let it sit outside , uncovered , and it deteriorated badly , i just got the truck to my place in August

I already have a engine/trans crossmember's kit from Classic Performance Products , to get the engine up where it needs to be , , the mounts that were made to swap from the 6 cylinder back in 1969 were not thought out , and you can sit on the fender and rest your feet on the valve covers , thats how low the engine is , its so low i can't get the harmonic balancer off because it hits the frame crossmember , and the exhaust manifolds are level with the frame rails and touch the steering box , so hopefully this kit will raise the engine where it needs to be

Now to my questions

I am wanting to put a tank under the bed instead of in the cab , i need the room and i need a larger than 15 gal tank and i remember the fumes when i was a kid , i did some searching and read thru some posts , but none (that i found) addressed my specific needs , first and foremost , i am on a tight budget with this truck , second , i want to retain the stock fuel gauges and i do not want the filler to be in the bed , i would like it to exit the side of the bed or thru the fender tub , which side of the truck is not a concern

If possible , i would like to find a OEM Chevy/GMC (so i can use the stock gas gauge) tank , and am not sure if ALL GM tanks utilize the same ohms so the gauge will register correctly , or if i will have to add something ?? , so i was thinking of some kind of Wrecking Yard tank , that would work/fit without welding , i do not have access to a welder without loading the truck on a trailer and hauling it somewhere and paying someone to do the work , i can weld , i just do not have one anymore , so a bolt up mounting system would be best for me , as the truck is not running at this point and will need some work to get it road worthy again , i am planning on using the truck as a dirt bike hauler/cruiser during the summer , so it will be driven on the weekends , most every weekend , so this needs to be a reliable setup , i eventually plan on trying to adapt some vehicle air conditioner into it so i do not roast when it gets 110 here in the summer , in the winter it snows so i will be driving my Toyota 4x4 then

The truck itself i will be keeping (aside from the engine and gas tank obviously) fairly original , so its somewhat like it was when my dad had it , as this is important to me , but we had talked about doing some of these modifications before he got ill , so i want to finish what we had planned , i will be retaining the Carb setup , so no FI , and the stock 2wd straight axle 6 lug front end and rear end , with drum brakes and all , i will be adding a power booster master cylinder for the brakes , but do not know if i should convert (what fits/swaps easily?) to a firewall mounted brake pedal/booster setup , or getting the one that goes in the stock location with a dual cylinder and mini booster , and a "newer" power split bench/drop down console seat , and a tilt column ( i understand certain year Chevy van columns will work ?? , but not sure what year , and i do not want a shifter on the column)

So for the tank i was under the impression a Blazer or Suburban tank will fit ?? , but have not seen as to what years will work , i am looking to be within 20-25 gallon range , so i can at least drive it without needing to fill the tank every 100 miles (stock seat tank is 15 gal), but i dont want a huge tank hanging down as the truck will be lowered somewhat , though only so a 15" wheel will fill the openings and not look like a 4x4 with low profile tires , and as mentioned i do want to retain the use of the stock gas gauge to work with this tank (what sending unit do i need ?? , will the one in the tank work with the stock gauges ??) , i have Fab skills , but again , i am limited to "normal tools" no milling machines or tube or sheet benders ,welders , just simple fabrication/mechanical hand tools , in fact , i don't even have a garage to do this in , it will be mostly done outside in gravel , or under a gravel floor carport where i currently park my Toyota , its about as redneck as you can get here , so keep this in mind when suggesting something

so ,i am needing : Gas Tank (using stock gauge) and as cheap as possible , Tilt Column (as close to bolt in as possible without spending $500 on a IDidIt column ,Wrecking Yard column preferred with no shifter) , and lowering tips using stock rear end and front axle , without dropped spindles (flipping springs to bottom of axles maybe ?? , just want 2 or 3 inches to set the truck at a nice stance) , and budget is key , so the cheaper the suggestion (that works correctly) the better ....Thanks .... Jim


Any help would be appreciated....

This is its current condition , its rough , but i plan on having it running and the changes i mentioned done by next June (hopefully)

[_Ogre]

welcome to the forum. nice 4 eyed beauty you have there

and it deteriorated badly

that's not bad for sitting those years. you should see some of the rust buckets we start our projects with, mine included

OEM Chevy/GMC (so i can use the stock gas gauge) tank

our classic gauges are 30 ohm, gm went to 90 ohm gauges in the 70s or 80s
old mustang tanks work and are relatively cheap, many aftermarket tanks can be ordered 30 or 90 ohm
55-59 suburban or panel truck would be ideal, but no one repops them

Tilt Column (as close to bolt in as possible

out trucks steering column is integrated into the steering box, there is no bolt on tilt column

[Dan in Pasadena]

Welcome!

Ogre's right on all counts. Here's a link to one of several gas tanks that Tanks, Inc. Sells to fit our trucks:
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/pa...rod/prd121.htm

Also this one:
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/pa...rod/prd129.htm

[OrrieG]

I got my rear tank with side fill from Performance On Line (POL), they had the best price at the time. I believe I got the correct OHM sending unit to work with the stock gauge from them as well. Price was around $300. My truck is a short fleetside and I found that the take was designed around the step side which has a slightly different bed cross sill configuration. I modifed mine to work.

[JimDirt]

Thanks for the replies guys , so (hoping for a Wrecking Yard find) will earlier than 70's Suburban tanks have the same ohms ?? , or is the only option aftermarket ?? , what about CAR tanks , i heard mustang , what year mustang ?? (not really crazy about putting a Ford part on a Chevy) , or will any Chevy car tanks work to get a side fill and at least 20 or so gallons ?? (work , as in fit inside the frame rails , allow side filling , and have a sending unit that will be compatible , or will my sending unit fit in it ??)

So on any "Replacement" steering boxes for my truck i have seen online at Classic Truck part companies , i have not seen any columns attached , those boxes seem to be splined , is there a way to get the column off , and if so can a newer tilt then be installed ?? , is there a spline on the stock steering box ?? , or do i have to change to another box , and if so , what will (as close as possible) , "bolt on" without major modifications ?? , while retaining the stock suspension components , i have to replace the box anyway , because this one is so worn out , it will not adjust any farther , its about a quarter turn from center , each way , to keep the truck pointing straight , so 9 O clock to 3 O clock to keep the truck somewhat in my lane , so the box is something i have to change , but the ones i have seen do not have a column attached , so i assumed , it was simply pulled off and that would be a good time to replace the column with a tilt unit and hopefully a newer column would spline up to the stock box , or at least with some mocked up coupler ,,, no ???

$300 is doable if i have to for a tank , but Wrecking Yard parts will help my budget more , so if i can go that route , i would rather , since that will help my goal of getting all the parts i need without having to spread it out over a year or more , as i would really like to get the truck on the road , though not finished , before next summer , i still have to either repair , or rebuild the engine (all but machine work i can do) , and get new wheels and tires under it , the tank , the bed wood and trim , and if the engine has to be moved forward , then a new driveshaft , steering box , column of possible , brakes completely rebuilt as the pedal goes to the floor and all wheel cylinders , etc need rebuilt , , and Radiator either rebuilt or replaced , this is just to get it road worthy , and somewhat comfortable to drive , i will still need all new rubber trim , a new windshield , etc , , remember , this will not be a show truck , this will be a daily driver , perhaps going out of state occasionally , the truck will be in primer for a while before i set up a booth to paint it (preferably the OEM color again) , but this wont happen till after the truck is on the road and and mechanically sound , in fact it may be a few years before i get to painting it , as there are lots of little things it will need first , that i will get to as i go along , as this will be a while before the truck is complete and done how i want (chrome grill,bumper, etc)

[Tomb23]

mustang tank

[JimDirt]

It looks like its made to fit , are all of the Mustang tanks rear fill ?? , one of my requirements is to be a side fill , like thru the fender tub , or just behind the tub on the bed side , as the rear bumper that is on the truck is a wrap around step bumper , not the smaller chrome dress bumper like is in your picture , so exiting the rear is not a option at this point , unless i change to the chrome dress bumper and add a receiver hitch to the frame for towing a trailer , since i will be actually using the truck as a summer driver and occasionally pulling a dirt bike/ATV trailer

[OrrieG]

All Mustang tanks that fit are rear fill. Shelby and KR models for racing may have had a different fill configuration.

[dwcsr]

You can make it a side fill. Tanks Inc has a mustang tank that has a bolt on neck. If you get the 70 degree neck and some 2" tube and elbows you can make it a side fill like we did on this 1950. This is a Camaro tank but the idea is the same. The 69-70 mustang tank is a 22 gallon, 64-68 is a 16 gallon. The OEM replacement does not have a bolt on neck only the EFI version do so you would need a carbed pickup and of course a sender. If you go with OEM mustang you end up with a bottom pickup and sender that you need to convert to your gauges and the fill does not bolt on. If your interested in the kits we have for this swap email me. info@thoroco.com

[JimDirt]

I like how that works , , that is kind of how i want mine placed , in the fender tub , would their be any clearance issues with a 58 stepside (longbed) ?? , the stock sender on the 58 has a pickup tube , i am guessing i would have to block that off and then use the bottom feed with a electric fuel pump , and bend/cut the sender float arm to work with this flat tank correct ??

What does a unit like this cost ?? , and are they vehicle specific and come with all mounting hardware (minus any frame brackets or cradle) , or is it just the tank and tube ?? or ?? ....does it have or require a internal pump ???

I would like it so i could lower the tank for service if needed , without having to remove the bed

[OrrieG]

Make sure you consider how it mounts. Most aftermarket ones mount from the bottom to the frame or with straps. I thought the Mustang mounted from the top like they did in the original cars? You would not want to have to remove or disassemble your bed just to fix a tank issue...

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by JimDirt

I like how that works , , that is kind of how i want mine placed , in the fender tub , would their be any clearance issues with a 58 stepside (longbed) ?? , the stock sender on the 58 has a pickup tube , i am guessing i would have to block that off and then use the bottom feed with a electric fuel pump , and bend/cut the sender float arm to work with this flat tank correct ??

What does a unit like this cost ?? , and are they vehicle specific and come with all mounting hardware (minus any frame brackets or cradle) , or is it just the tank and tube ?? or ?? ....does it have or require a internal pump ???

I would like it so i could lower the tank for service if needed , without having to remove the bed

If you get the kit we sell the only thing you need is the 2" straight pipe which can be steel exhaust pipe or aluminum or stainless. We used the original fill with the vent and ran a tube down to the pipe curve at the tank.
I don't see any clearance issue with the fill its about 12" back from the wheel.

With the tanks inc tank you would get the pickup tube and sender 30 ohm for stock gauges so no fab work there. It can have an internal or just a pickup tube. The only fab work would be mounting and running the 2" fill pipe and plumbing.

The kit consists of the tank, pickup tube or pump, sender, bolt on neck, 2" straight gas hose. The elbow and a 2' to 1.5" reducer to go from the old fill neck to the new fill pipe. You supply any mounting brackets you want
email me and I can get a better idea on how you want it a quote a price

[dsraven]

you could always get a mustang tank and have a rad shop plug the existing fill hole and install a side filler hole wherever you want it. or you could do that yourself without fear of an explosion because the new tank never had gas in it yet. the mustang tanks sit in the trunk of the car on the pinch weld flange. not too sure of the specs but an s10 blazer has a rear, between the frame rails, tank with a drivers side filler inlet. anybody know what the specs would be for that? you could check the measurements at an auto parts store or online probably. it would have a fuel pump inside the tank if you got a used one, but that is easy enough to take out and just install a normal tube in there.
the steering column from 70's era vans work aparently. if you can find one without the shifter. early chevy astro van columns may also be made to work but good luck finding anything that doesn't have a shifter. if you are keeping the standard steering then you may want a larger than normal wheel. (normal being from a donor with power steering) unless you have huge pythons.to get the old box out most guys just cut it off just above the steering box. the shaft that goes down from the steering wheel is one piece so if you want to save the box you have to pull the whole thing out as one piece, box and column. I seen a power box for one of these somewhere on the net just the other day. you cut your column off above the box and there is a bearing supplied to go in the cut off end. then a rag joint connects to the new box. you keep the original look that way and everything bolts up to the dash the same as before.

for brakes, the stock system is a single system, meaning the whole brake system is on one circuit. if you get a leak or have a ruptured line etc the whole system goes down at the same time. try to install something that has a dual system. the reservoir will have 2 cavities for fluid. if you are getting a junk yard set up then make sure it matches what you have for brakes. drum front and rear. if you mix the system with a set up that came from a disc front drum rear you will have problems.

for lowering, check the clearance above the axle to the frame. see how much you have to work with. make sure to install a nice thick suspension snubber block so if you get close to bottoming against the frame the snubber will take a bunch of the weight first. again, s10 blazers have a nice big tiered snubber (from the rear axle area) that can be made to bolt on easily. you can set it up so the suspension hits the snubber way before the axle hits the frame and it will be a soft hit that way. the s10 that I got some parts from only had about an inch of air between the axle and the snubber, so they are made to be "ridden on".
have fun and keep the pics coming. man, if you think that is rough you should have seen what I started with. Calgary isn't so good for rust..............

[JimDirt]

Great , thanks for the tips and yea i know about Canada and rust , i was actually born in Hamilton Ontario , and actually used to travel to Canada with my dad every summer in this very truck starting when i was about 7 , till our last trip there when i was about 14 , i remember my uncle could not register his car till he patched the rust spots with sheet metal , i guess it was a common thing

I am most likely going to have to get one of those aftermarket steering boxes , because the one on this truck is toast , the slop can't be adjusted out because the adjuster screw is all the way in , its that wore out , and i would really like to put a tilt column in , so i will check the wrecking yards for a van column , i guess i will need to keep the measurements the same as the stock column/box setup so everything sits where its supposed to , i wish there was another box that would somewhat bolt up without too much fab work , that will work with the stock straight axle

I am going to measure the area ( i know i will have to remove a frame brace for the spare tire holder) , and start searching the wrecking yards to see what might work locally , otherwise , the setup dwcsr has looks to be pretty clean , all this depends on what works best for my budget

For lowering , i was noticing on the front straight axle and on the rear , that the leaf spring mounts and perches are integrated into the housing and axle , so i am guessing i will have to sawzall them off and flip them and weld them back on the opposite side so i can get at least a few inches drop , i figure if i can get the springs on the bottom of them , that will give me the drop i am looking for (3" in back and front) without changing the geometry much , i also noticed that there is some kind of stabilizer bar or shock that is missing from the front axle , as there is a post for it , but nothing there , so i will have to look into that

I found a dual master cylinder with booster that goes in the stock location , on eBay for about $165 , so i think i will go with that , i guess if you use a proportioning valve its for disk and just running the lines out of the cylinder is what you do for drum brakes .... correct ??

I appreciate all the input , i am not new to mechanics by a long shot , i am just used to messing with muscle cars , not old trucks where parts are hard to come by , and knowing what to use where , is out of my knowledge area , since i have never done one before , if it was a 60's or 70's Chevy Nova or Plymouth Cuda or Charger , i would not have a issue , i have had and redone/customized a few of those in my time , but the older trucks are a whole new animal , but i am learning thanks to all you people here !!

[OrrieG]

Just noticed you are in Weiser, I was there last week getting a fuel pump for my kids Saturn, had dinner at the Homestead Cafe. You might use the search function in the box above, clicked to this site, and type in "task force gas tank" to find other build and threads on what will work. Same with steering and brakes, there is not much that has not been previously discussed. You can save the stock column and wheel using a CCP column saver kit that provides a bearing to adapt the shaft to a modern box or rack.

[JimDirt]

Where are you located ?? , yea , i have been looking into any posts i find with 55-59 , but i am noticing that a lot of these "builds" are done using a alternate front clip off Camaro's or Mustangs , etc , so the steering setups are completely different from my build , looks like not many are keeping the original front suspension and box , with a tilt wheel , i had thought about doing a Camaro clip , , and actually found one in Boise , it was a 71 , for $150 , i looked for the add again on Craigslist a few days later as i thought i might as well get it , and it was gone ,but the cost of paying someone to do it right , is a little bit above my budget for now , i can weld , and trust my fab skills , but do not have a proper place to jig up the frame so its level , as its hard to do that in gravel , so it would have to be farmed out , the only one i know with the skills and tools to do it right , is a guy in Meridian , its all he does is classic customs , bed/frame shortening , subframes , etc , his work is top notch , but he's always booked months in advance , and the cost is a bit out of my budget for now

But i have been searching the "Projects" forum , looking at the trucks , so i can get a idea what i need to do on some of this stuff , but unfortunately , it seems that others budgets and work areas are far better than mine , so i can only do so much right now till i figure out a place to really do what i would like with it , so for now , the main focus will be the basics to get it road worthy and back to being a driver again , and down the road , think about suspension swaps , etc , but the tank and steering , and basic stuff i can do where i have it parked (outside in the gravel unfortunately)

[OrrieG]

I am in Boise, by the airport. Give this guy a call in Kuna, top notch and fair. Might also have some of the parts you need.

http://boise.craigslist.org/pts/5242583732.html

[JimDirt]

Cool ! , yea i have seen his adds on Craigslist , i will contact him , the guy in Meridian is named Mark , he is young , but he knows his stuff , just a bit spendy on some things , other things , he is really fair , he is near Meridian Speedway , his shop is off Franklin and Meridian Rd, he is in the industrial complex there , he cut the bed/frame down to 6 ft on my friends 68 longbed , the metal work is so good , you could almost get away with just painting it where the cut/weld was done , really impressive some of the things he has going on in his shop

Also , from what i think i am reading in some of the Projects posts , the column on my truck is pressed on to the steering box , so i am assuming it can be removed with a rubber mallet ?? , by banging on it at the bottom and getting it to pop off the box shaft ??

[dsraven]

you likely won't need all the length of the shaft anyway, so you could cut it with a pipe cutter for a nice clean straight cut. or just hacksaw it off. did you look into that aftermarket steering box that bolts to the original spot?
on the axles, you may not have to cut the old mounts off the rear if you just pick up some spring mounts for a trailer axle. you can weld them on the axle tube and then if you chnge your mind the old mounts are still usable.

[dsraven]

just found the cpp box ad.
This is all that is listed:
1955-59, with CPP 400 Series™ box, kit Part# CPP5559PSK-OC
looks like a bolt on.

[JimDirt]

Originally Posted by dsraven

you likely won't need all the length of the shaft anyway, so you could cut it with a pipe cutter for a nice clean straight cut. or just hacksaw it off. did you look into that aftermarket steering box that bolts to the original spot?
on the axles, you may not have to cut the old mounts off the rear if you just pick up some spring mounts for a trailer axle. you can weld them on the axle tube and then if you change your mind the old mounts are still usable.

Yea i looked at some of them , but some were pretty spendy ($500+) , so i am guessing no other GM box is the same configuration so it would work with the stock straight axle and go thru the frame like the stock box does ??

The shock mounts are removable on the stock housing and front axle , I guess a trailer axle spring mount would work at least on the rear end , , good thinking , i never even thought about that , thanks ...., i would hope they would have a small flat setup for the front axle since it is not round , but I Beam shaped , but i think as soon as i get my bumper lift repaired (its in the bed of my truck in the last picture i posted of the rear of the truck , it will lift up the entire front or rear end of the truck and safely hold it there) i can try swapping the axles around and see how it works

One of the local wrecking yards has a column/steering box , that has been in their building for 30 years , i just don't know how to test it to see if its worn out while its off the truck since there is no load on it when its just sitting there , anyone have any ideas how to check it for wear before purchase ?? , i would hate to buy it thinking i have a better steering box than i have now , only to find its just as worn as mine

If it is good i can just knock the column off it , find a van one and get a coupler that goes from the flat side box side to spline , so a modern column will attach and i should be set (i hope)

[bowt1ed]

Jim,
If you decide to go with a GM subframe, I would recommend a Monte Carlo column. I had a 1980 MC column in my 57 with Camaro sub and it worked perfectly.

Cheers, Jim

[dsraven]

ok, I knew I seen this somewhere just lately and, voila, hotrod mag did a how to on the install. june 2015, just google power steering for straight axles. it shows a dissassemble and install. it might have some info that could help you even if you are using the box from something at the wrecker. orif you just have an extra 15 mins to read through it.
good luck and keep us posted WITH PICS, ha ha

[JimDirt]

I will check it out , thanks ... as far as pics , it will be a bit before i actually start the work (most likely spring) , i am mainly gathering info and parts over the winter so when i start on it , i actually have the correct stuff to work with

[dsraven]

check this out at brothers truck parts. cheaper as well. don't know how it mounts up but you could request some info.

Power Steering Conversion Kit
SKU: FPS-5910
1947-59 Power steering coversion bracket kit
This kit allows you to covert & upgrade your truck to power steering using a 1969-87 2wd 1/2 ton later model "GM" truck gear box. This kit moves the gear box in front of the axle and outboard the frame rail. -
Our price: $139.95