1955 3200 2nd Series Frame Swap Ideas

[DakotaKid08]

Hey guys this is my first post on here and looking for some help on a project I'm working on. I have a 1955 second series 3200 long bed that I plan on shortening the bed and putting on a new frame. I have thought about sub framing and cutting the frame back but needs new drive train so thought finding a running driving chevy pickup would be my best bet. I'm a body technician and don't have much mechanical skills so would be nice to keep brakes and drive train all on the new frame and swapping the cab and bed over. I have done some searching and believe a 74-88 chevy half ton will work with some fabing of the body mounts. I believe those frames are longer then then a 3100 but might work out nice as I plan on shorting my longbed anyways... I can get a 85 2wd half ton for 800 with 350 running and driving... not sure what the rear end is. Do you think that would work or any ideas on a different style frame? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Shawn

[Rude Dude]

First you better sharpen up on mechanical skills they are still old trucks, you got me at body technician you guys use wrenches all the time. There are kits that have brackets to swap C10 chassis to older trucks just remember the foot print of the tires will be out some. But your a body technician you should be able to handle that google is your friend plus I cant remember who but a member on here sells what your looking for. Good Luck

[joedoh]

the site for the 55-59 to c10 swap is http://www.e-zchassisswaps.com/index.php

I havent used a swap from them, so all I can give you is the site, no first hand experience.

[DakotaKid08]

Ok thanks Rude Dude that's my next problem. I hear that if you lower it which I plan on doing, the wheels will hit the front fenders. Do you know of any way to tuck the tire without modification of the fenders? I will look into those kits as well.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Rude Dude]

I have not ever used a 73-87 full frame swap sorry can not help on that one. There is a reason why people shy away from full size truck frame swaps. Try looking at an S10 swap if you want to go low if I recall someone did one of those on this site do a search. I only have done a Camaro clip install and Mustang II. I am installing a Mustang II right now on my 55 Big Window see my build pics. Good Luck

Originally Posted by DakotaKid08

Ok thanks Rude Dude that's my next problem. I hear that if you lower it which I plan on doing, the wheels will hit the front fenders. Do you know of any way to tuck the tire without modification of the fenders? I will look into those kits as well.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DakotaKid08]

Nice pickup! I will check out your add further tonight. I have heard the mustang II front ends can't support the pickup enough and will start to crack, so that why I stayed away from the mustang II.

[Rude Dude]

Don't know were you are getting your rumors and propaganda from but that's why TCI, Heidts and Most Big Name builders sells them. You really need to talk to someone who installed them. Plus you were asking for a frame swap that install would be a little above your capabilities.

Originally Posted by DakotaKid08

Ok thanks, I have heard that they can't support the pickup enough and will start to crack so that why I stayed away from the mustang II.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DakotaKid08]

Originally Posted by Rude Dude

Don't know were you are getting your rumors and propaganda from but that's why TCI, Heidts and Most Big Name builders sells them. You really need to talk to someone who installed them. Plus you were asking for a frame swap that install would be a little above your capabilities.

I have heard it on this site a few times actually and it was a question... I wasn't Bashing those companies at all. You have been helpful and I thank you dispite being rude... I see where you get your name lol
Posted via Mobile Device

[dsraven]

just a word of advice from a lurker here who has seen a few swaps go wrong in real life.
first, decide what it is you want in a truck before thinking of a frame swap. most anything that goes lower will net you a shallow bed, like the floor of the box will be close to the bedrails. that is because the newer style frames have a kick up behind the cab so the floor of the bed will need to raise to allow clearance for the frame and still have the box sitting correctly inline with the cab. this also holds true for a stock frame if you want to have a truck that sits in the weeds. if you just want to lower the stock frame a couple inches then you can get away with a small c notch in the stock frame and not have to do anything to the box for clearance. search ogre's truck on here because his is as low as you could go with a stock frame and he will probably tell you he bottoms out over speed bumps.
secondly, if you plan on a frame swap, also plan on a lot of work fiddling around to get things lined up and mounted correctly. that means you need somewhere to keep the truck parts you dissassemble and also a work space with ample room for things like engine lifts etc to manoever. it will likely be there for awhile as well, unless you are an old pro at this sort of thing or have an old pro helping. think about things like steering column linkage connections and angles, front wheel clearance on turns while going over bumps-will you need a different wheel offset-will that offset affect wheel alignment and steering, brake booster location under hood and related pedal changes and firewall supports for added stress in that area, engine and exhaust clearance to steering shaft, how does the new frame line up with regards to front bumper mounting, stabilizer bars etc in the area, will you need a bunch of box work to clear the frame kick up, fuel tank mounting and filler tube routing, rear bumper mounting, shifter mounting and location, if you use an older style of fuel injection-like throttle body from 88-98 chevy-will you be satisfied after spending the time and effort to install or would you rather have a newer style like the ls engines use from newer trucks which would mean a different fuel tank, engine mounts etc. would you go with carbureted instead. check engine to firewall clearances-would you need a bunch of firewall work?
thirdly, if you are thinking of using the stock frame and a camaro clip welded in front and then a big c notch kit welded in the rear that means you will only be using the centre couple of feet from the original frame. you may be better off just buying a new frame built for your truck or having a welder fab you up a new frame with whatever suspension you want to install. buying the assembly manual for the truck would give you a diagram with measurements of the stock frame that you can go by. if you look at the stock frame it is really simple. basically rectangular tubing with a c notch above the diff and a slope cut way in the front then add some crossmembers where you need them. a mustangII kit could be used if desired. if a camaro clip is what you want and a fabbed up rear c notch you may be better off just extending the c notch right up to the camaro clip and just swapping over the cab mounts as required. you may also check out the frame suppliers like heidts, TCI, canadian hotrods (good money exchange for USA compared to Canadian right now). if you need to hire a welder you should do a cost comparison between time spent on the old frame or swapped frame compared to money spent on a new frame built for the truck series.another good source for fab parts-if you go that route-is welders series, again out of Canada so exchange rate is in your favour.

anyway, just a few thoughts. I don't wanna come off as a downer here, just want you to be informed before you start so you don't end up dropping the project part way through due to the amount of work required or end up with something cobbled together that puts you in the ditch or worse. I have seen somewhere on here where an 88-98 2 wheel drive frame was used. it might be an idea to find that build thread and see what you are in for. just remember that there are lots of man hours between pics in guy's threads. time spent figuring out just how this is gonna go together and work with other mods already made. just keep searching and asking questions.

[dsraven]

ok, found it. it is
sgtusmc who did that swap onto an 88-98 chevy 2wd frame. maybe check his build thread or pm him for some behind the scenes input. good luck and have fun.

[Rude Dude]

That's okay section 08 no more advice from me

Originally Posted by DakotaKid08

I have heard it on this site a few times actually and it was a question... I wasn't Bashing those companies at all. You have been helpful and I thank you dispite being rude... I see where you get your name lol
Posted via Mobile Device

[joedoh]

dsraven has it right, people tend to think of body swaps as only mounting the body, even guys who advocate keeping the stock frame tend to be a bit myopic about body mounting, but really, that is the easiest part. the rest, making all the systems work, is the hard part and what takes the time.

starting with a running driving donor is a good start, I did a 47 gmc with a running driving donor and it was fast, I am doing a 49 that the donor had a bent frame rail and it is a fiddly chore to break all the systems and reinstall them.

you can do a MII, those fears of it not being strong enough are groundless, they have been used on huge 2 ton hotrods since they were new. keep in mind though, that if you install a MII you will still need to figure everything else out, rear springs, rear end, engine mounting, trans connection, steering, brakes, wiring.

figure out your goal, figure out your ability, and figure out your space. being honest with yourself and not glossing over the facts. a good rule of thumb is to double your first time estimate and triple your first cost estimate. then double it again haha.

one more thing, I did a fullsize on an s10 frame and loved it. the track width problem was barely a problem, I just ordered control arms that were 4" longer on each side and ran a 4x4 axle with huge wheels. mine was built on purpose to take a rolled over s10 headed to the scrapyard and a couple disjointed 60-66 body parts that were rotting in a friends back yard and make something useful. I would imagine that if you wanted to change the track width of your c10 you could order arms that were slightly shorter. good luck!

[DakotaKid08]

Ok thanks for the advice guys I really appreciate it. I welded on beet pilers for four year before I went to school for body work so I have that in the bag. Like I said I don't have much mechanic skills and that's what I'm scared of but I do have a friend that's owned a shop for year and two old school guys working in my shop that are willing to give advice. I have been waiting a few years to start this project because I didn't have any space. Just bought a house with 24-28 shop so have plenty of room to work on it. Its not an impulse buy, was my brothers first pickup and ran and drove ten years ago but has been sitting for long time. I'm going to do some more looking and post a new thead when I start working on it. I found this thead that's what I was thinking of doing but he ended up hiring someone to do the bags, beaks and wire harness and don't want to get stuck like he did. Thanks again guys and rude dude no hard feelings.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=220256
Posted via Mobile Device

[dsraven]

I have a 57 gmc project. I have a 26x30 garage and it is full plus the attic is full and there is still stuff outside. you always think you got it but then a parts deal comes along and you end up with more spare parts, or, you replace something or cut something off to fab a new part but you don't chuck out the old stuff till you know the new part will work or you keep it till you're done just so you have a reference point for bolt holes or how something fit from factory or where a particular dimple is etc. just sayin, you need space.start sucking up to your friends NOW so you can store stuff at their place, haha.
get an idea of what you want in a truck, get a plan of how to get there, ask lots of questions.
have fun, take pics, start collecting.

[Task Force Era]

Yep if you can score a S10 cheap enough, you can make it work. Like Joedoh said, with some longer control arms and a 4x4 s-10 or blazer rear end, you can take care of the track width issue. We made some new front body mounts on mine and were able to use the stock rear mounts slid forward a little bit....

[DakotaKid08]

Originally Posted by dsraven

I have a 57 gmc project. I have a 26x30 garage and it is full plus the attic is full and there is still stuff outside. you always think you got it but then a parts deal comes along and you end up with more spare parts, or, you replace something or cut something off to fab a new part but you don't chuck out the old stuff till you know the new part will work or you keep it till you're done just so you have a reference point for bolt holes or how something fit from factory or where a particular dimple is etc. just sayin, you need space.start sucking up to your friends NOW so you can store stuff at their place, haha.
get an idea of what you want in a truck, get a plan of how to get there, ask lots of questions.
have fun, take pics, start collecting.

Haha thanks for the honest advice, I'm sure I will find out the hard way as far as space but I forgot to mention the 24-24 garage that will probably fill up.
Posted via Mobile Device
Posted via Mobile Device

[DakotaKid08]

Originally Posted by Task Force Era

Yep if you can score a S10 cheap enough, you can make it work. Like Joedoh said, with some longer control arms and a 4x4 s-10 or blazer rear end, you can take care of the track width issue. We made some new front body mounts on mine and were able to use the stock rear mounts slid forward a little bit....

Ok thanks I have heard so much that s10 wouldn't work because the width is to narrow. Do you have photos? I just saw a photo of a 56 on a s10 frame and it did look pretty weird with the tires sucked in. Do you know how it would look with the longer control arms? I have found a few threads of people running into problems with the wheels being to far out which wouldn't work if I plan on lowering it, so that's out the window.

The gaps on the body panels are horrid so I'm thinking it was wrecked before plus it was a farm truck so thinking the could have yanked it around a lot.

Someone installed a 327 at some point and welded it to the frame
Posted via Mobile Device

[DakotaKid08]

Originally Posted by Task Force Era

Yep if you can score a S10 cheap enough, you can make it work. Like Joedoh said, with some longer control arms and a 4x4 s-10 or blazer rear end, you can take care of the track width issue. We made some new front body mounts on mine and were able to use the stock rear mounts slid forward a little bit....

Ok thanks I have heard so much that s10 wouldn't work because the width is to narrow. Do you have photos? I just saw a photo of a 56 on a s10 frame and it did look pretty weird with the tires sucked in. Do you know how it would look with the longer control arms? I have found a few threads of people running into problems with the wheels being to far out which wouldn't work if I plan on lowering it, so that's out the window.
The gaps on the original frame are horrid so I'm thinking it was wrecked before plus it was a farm truck so thinking the could have yanked it around a lot.

Someone installed a 327 at some point and welded it to the frame
Posted via Mobile Device

[Task Force Era]

I don't have alot of good photos from the frame swap but if you click my build thread, post 5 shows the front mounts. Turns out we did use the front stock s10 mounts also. We used an extended cab and shorten it 7 inches... I do know with a 67-72 frame swap, the tires are super close to the fenders if it's lowered at all

[DakotaKid08]

Ok thanks man I appreciate it!
Posted via Mobile Device

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by DakotaKid08

Do you know how it would look with the longer control arms?

not a task force, but here is what my 65 looked like on s10 frame with 4" extended control arms and 4x4 rear axle.



I need to go fix my project thread, all the pictures show as moved for some reason, even though I didnt move them.

[av8tr33337]

I didn't read everyone else's response, but I would suggest doing a little research and find something that has about the same track width and overall wheelbase from center of the rear axle to center of the front to make your life a little easier. If you start with those basics It should be fairly similar to the s10 chassis swap a lot of us are doing with out 47 through 55 first series trucks. I have not researched it myself but a Dodge Dakota might be a little closer than a full size c10 or something of that nature.

[DakotaKid08]

Ok thanks for the advice guys and really nice truck you have there, wheels look really nice!

I found a page that has pretty much every Chevy vehicle wheel base and track width... Might be a dumb question what is the track width measuring from, at the calipers? Based on those number it looks like the track width is five inches wider on the 73-88 pickups which is why most people probably have problems with tires hitting fenders. The s10 is pretty narrow until 82-93 with a track length of 57.2 compared to my 55 which is 60.5 and the wheel base is four inches longer on the long box s10. The downside is newer vehicle with more electrical. I'm going to try get my pickup running this weekend and go from there, if the tranny and rear end work fine I might end up modifying the original frame. I thought the transmission was bad in my pickup but dad said its ok just comes out of gear because the shifter hits the front of the seat. Someone really did a number on that thing when the replaced the motor, transmission and possibly rear end. Would those pickups have a ten bolt rear in them in 55?
Posted via Mobile Device

[mongocanfly]

S10 axle width....2wd 54.5"..4wd 59"...ZR2 63"...maybe you should be looking for a zr2 axle..it will have 3.73 gears a g80 locker and is 63" wide..

[mongocanfly]

I think the dakota comes in at 59" wide..