Ethanol compatibility

[Fred n' Ethel]

Hey.
Looking at many of the vendors for 1954 fuel pumps, I don't see where any of them "specifically" mention that the components are compatible with the ethanol fuels of today.
Are we to assume that they are ? (I have inquired with a few, btw)
Rock Auto has a 1 year warranty. Seems short for a fuel pump.
I stopped at a NAPA store to get some hose, asked if it was good for ethanol. He said "we can get some specifically for ethanol, but what we have is regular fuel hose".

What do you do to be sure ?
Thanks.

[jjzepplin]

My my. Good question. I run an electric vane style Carter pump so I don't think that would matter with that one but I am wrestling with my 58 Belair trying to get it running right and never thought of the pump not being compatible. Son of a mother.

[richards72chevy]

I thought it only matters if the fuel sits for a long time.I may be wrong.

[Fred n' Ethel]

I bought a 39 with a 216 several years back, gassed it up, ran really good ..... for a short while. Then the pump went...gradually, had to chase the problem as it seemed intermittent. Rebuilt the pump and carb with compatible kits, been doing fine since.
The fabric reinforced diaphragm is pretty tough. But the little rubber pads in the check valves is what dramatically affects the pump when they get warped, cracked or otherwise deteriorated.

Those kits actually DID specify compatibility...... but, they came with a 1 year warranty. (wonder if they are cheaper by the dozen )

Maybe the short warranty has to do with not having a clue what the scientific wingnuts might put in the gas tomorrow.
I'll post responses from some of these vendors .... if they come in.
Thanks

[jkmhb]

My experience on multiple old cars - Ethanol eats rubber.
Whatever material is used on fuel pumps seems to stand up better than the fuel lines (it may not be rubber).
I've had fuel lines start breaking down from the inside, and then bits of fuel line get stuck in the needle and seat in the carb, resulting in flooding. The fuel line looked OK from the outside.

For a solution, I used fuel line rated for fuel injection.

[Fred n' Ethel]

Originally Posted by jkmhb

For a solution, I used fuel line rated for fuel injection.

I like the looks of that ! Thanks for the tip. I now see it mentioned elsewhere as well. Only drawback mentioned is that it is a bit pricey ? ? ?
SO WHAT ! So long as it don't crap out. What's a few extra bucks ?
Any of you guys own a plane ?
This car stuff is dirt cheap.

[Fred n' Ethel]

I sent this to Rock Auto:

Hi, I need this for a 1954 Chevy 235:
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...326473&jsn=250
Are the rubber components in this compatible with modern ethanol fuels ?
Is NOT clearly stated in the catalog ..... that I could find.
Thanks

This is their response:

Hello,
We do not have mechanics on staff, so I am unable to provide you with the advice you're looking for.
If you're not seeing the details you are looking for, we do not have them. That also means they are not important for fitment. The manufacturer always lists the details that will be important to determine if the part will fit your vehicle.
Thank you,
RockAuto Customer Service

sooooo .... it WILL fit, every time, every year

[jkmhb]

I will say - if it's going to fail due to Ethanol, it will probably fail in less than a year. What would really be bad is if the diaphragm went bad and allowed gas into your oil. And their warranty probably won't cover replacing your engine.

[1project2many]

Nitrile diaphragms and valves will outlast old fashioned rubber parts. Is your pump rebuildable? I opted to rebuild the pump on my '36 Plymouth with compatible parts rather than try and locate an assembled pump.

https://classiccarbs.com.au/index.ph...ump-Diaphragms

This thread has some replies from a vendor that would sell compatible parts or do the rebuild.
https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads...&Number=962257

[Fred n' Ethel]

I spoke with Hal the other day.(your second link)
The kit costs more than the new pump.
Maybe the material is why.
I put a similar kit in my 39 from another vendor.

Here is a clip from the Ethanol ProducerMagazine:

Certain materials commonly used with gasoline may be incompatible with high-level ethanol blends, causing them to degrade and contaminate the fuel. Metals that have been shown to degrade over time in the presence of high-level alcohol blends include brass, lead, zinc and lead-based solder. Nonmetallic materials that degrade when in contact with ethanol include natural rubber, polyurethane, cork gasket material, leather, polyvinyl chloride (PVC) polyamides, and certain thermoplastic or thermoset polymers.

On the other hand, unplated steel, nickel-plated steel, stainless steel, black iron and bronze have shown resistance to ethanol corrosion, with nonmetallic materials like reinforced fiberglass, Buna-N, Neoprene rubber, polypropylene, nitrile rubber, Viton and Teflon meeting acceptable usage standards with E85.

[MiraclePieCo]

Find ethanol-free gas stations in every state:

http://pure-gas.org/

My career was in the wholesale petroleum industry. When ethanol was introduced it devoured our pumping and metering equipment. Every rubber seal and gasket dissolved. My company had upgrade every component of every machine.

I also fly a small airplane. Ethanol is not permitted in av-gas due to it's hydrophillic (water loving) characteristics. It absorbs moisture from the atmosphere - deadly for carburetor icing at altitude.

I don't worry about ethanol compatibility in my fuel system because my classic cars never touch a drop of ethanol. You'd be surprised how many stations carry non-ethanol ("clear") fuel - sometimes you have to ask where they keep it.

[Fred n' Ethel]

Thanks for the link ! There are 2 near me that I did not realize.
I mainly use it in the plane to dilute the lead a bit.
WAY too much lead in the 100LL for the small Continentals.

Another thought:
Somewhere along the way, before ethanol became prevalent, auto manufacturers must have upgraded the materials contacting the fuel. No ?
My 03 PU came out before ethanol, has run a tank (or 2) per week ever since. All or mostly 10% ethanol since it came out and has had no problems. Also run a stock 84 (just a few tanks a year on the farm) and no problems with it either.
Or, are these ticking time-bombs ?

[vintovka]

I have come to fear ethanol fuel . Its killed chainsaws, mowers and generators and now i think my newer electric auxiliary fuel pump. Ever time i go to the Chain Saw shop threes a new pallet of gas powered tools wrecked by ethanol. Owner says they won't work on any engine that doesn't involve a whole new carb installation. I use ethanol free gas when i know i won't be driving for a while and Premium Chevron if on the road. Even that my not prevent damage to components. The cost of ethanol free here on the coast can run $5 up ouch!.

[LostMy65]

What about that gas stabilizer stuff?
STA-BIL 360 22240 Marine with Vapor Technology, 32 oz. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001CAW2DK..._BemZBbNH0YR7N

[mikebte]

I purchased a fuel pump in 2010 from auto zone for my 235 and it's still running today on pumy gas. It drives a lot. Put the 235 in a farm truck. No idea about the material it was made of

[vintovka]

Originally Posted by mikebte

I purchased a fuel pump in 2010 from auto zone for my 235 and it's still running today on pumy gas. It drives a lot. Put the 235 in a farm truck. No idea about the material it was made of

Ethanol issues seem to directly linked to small engines that are not regularly used. Was in a local store and they have a big sign near chainsaws, lawnmowers and generators warning not to store gas in small engines without stabilizer. Basically said they are not responsible for ethanol effects.

Should i think it flat "ate" the ball in a plastic check valve in less than a month.

[MiraclePieCo]

My business was wholesale petroleum products. Ethanol devoured all of my company's pumping equipment - quickly. Small fortune spent upgrading all pumps, meters, etc. Nowadays I don't let ethanol touch any of my toys or yard equipment. It's easy to find gas stations that sell non-ethanol ("clear") premium gas:

https://www.pure-gas.org/

I recently bought a new Holley carb for my AD panel truck. Shockingly it did not come with the ethanol resistant accelerator pump gasket. It was goo in about 3 months - leaked all over my engine. And that's WITH fuel stabilizer added.

[jjzepplin]

Poison!

[LostMy65]

I live in the NW where we get lots of rain.
I had nothing but trouble with carbs.
I put on a Fitech early 2016, and haven't had a problem since.

[mr48chev]

One of the local stations and I buy Ethanol free gas there for my lawn mower, chain saw and boat.

While at a marina with my boat a couple of years ago I met a guy with a 32 Packard roadster who was filling 5 gallon jugs of gas from the marina pump and carrying them up to the parking lot to fill the tank on the Packard. It took him several trips to fill the tank and fill the jugs to take home but he said that ethanol had ruined his fuel system previously.