Leaking near flywheel

[rvrfoot]

Originally Posted by rvrfoot

I just got mine rebuilt.Attachment 1787830

Attachment 1787828

Attachment 1787829

My motor was $1850 for the rebuild.

[Praxiss454]

So, what are some symptoms that I need to rebuild the engine? The other day on a cold startup I noticed some black exhaust, I was just trying to start the truck to move it up onto the ramps so it wasn't warmed up or anything. Other than that, it seems to drive reasonably well. Definitely feels like an old truck but no knocking or anything like that. Never seen any white exhaust so I don't think I'm getting any oil in the gas, but the black exhaust makes me wonder if I'm getting a bit of blow-by. It's not an every time thing, and at the time I attributed it to just giving it too much gas on a cold start.

[Captainfab]

You could also just put a crank kit in it if you just want to get by for a while.

[Praxiss454]

Rear main seal popped right out once I got a brass punch tool and could tap it out with confidence. Prior to that, like I mentioned earlier, I nicked the crankshaft , but I *think* it's only got low spots now, I knocked down the high spots, and I also think it might not hit the lip of the seal.

My plan as of now, and this might end up being a mistake, is to pop off the main and rod bearings, replace them w/ same size, clean everything up, put in the new seal, and call it a day. If it leaks again, then I might bite the bullet and pull the engine for a rebuild.

[vince1]

Am I correct in that the AC-Delco oil filter application for this engine is a PF 454?

PF 454 specs show it as having an anti drain back valve (ADV). An ADV may prevent oil from running back to the pan after every shut down and ensuing momentary oil starvation on start up.

I have had good luck with Purolator oil filters on my other old car and I know the ADV's are good. The next one for my truck will be an L15313 if my local parts supplier has it. The L15313 cross references to the PF 454.

[rvrfoot]

I like wick on my little 350 motor

[Muskwa]

I use a NAPA 1060, it has an anti-drainback valve.

[vince1]

Muskwa, maybe upon removal you could check that that filter stays full. If oil comes out of the outside holes the ADV does not wok.

Of two Wix and one Napa gold filters tried on my 64 Rambler 232 none of them had a working ADV and the engine would rattle like crazy on start up.

[vince1]

I brought up the filter issue thinking that without an ADV maybe the bearings would starve for oil on start up. Today I removed a Fram PH30 with oil pouring out the outside holes proving that it does not have an ADV and specs confirm that. The truck didn't seem to mind though with no valve clatter or anything on start up. I put on a Wix 51060, filled it, removed it and confirmed that yes the ADV does work.

[Praxiss454]

As far as I know, the L6 230 uses Wix 51069, which does not have the ADV. I just checked and the 51060 has the same threads and outer diameter, but is 0.84" longer than the 51069. It very well might still fit. When I button everything back up, I'm using the NAPA 1069, which is just the NAPA labeled Wix.

[vince1]

If the Delco PF454CL was the original filter for the 230 it does have an ADV. Summit racing lists both ADV and non ADV filters for the 230. Rockauto lists filters only with ADV. From now on my 250 gets only ADV whether it needs it or not. I think it is good insurance to keep those bearings lubricated on start up.

[Praxiss454]

Okay guys, I jacked up the engine slightly to get the oil pan on/off. Did my rear main seal, swapped out the main bearings. Buttoned everything up, torqued to spec. Trying to lower the engine into place and re-attach the motor mounts as the last step.

Is there a secret to getting them lined up? I got one lined up enough to thread the bolt but not the other one, it's just like, 3/16th of an inch off but I can't get it to line up.

[vince1]

Maybe try a tapered pin of some sort like a round punch or sharpen your bolt on a grinder if the threads are long enough. Keeping the engine weight off the mounts might allow them to flex more easily into position.

[Praxiss454]

Originally Posted by vince1

Maybe try a tapered pin of some sort like a round punch or sharpen your bolt on a grinder if the threads are long enough. Keeping the engine weight off the mounts might allow them to flex more easily into position.

What other areas of the engine are safe to jack from? There are two spots on my 230 on either side of the oil pan at the front where I can get a 2x4 directly under the block but this sort of puts a lateral pressure on the engine, and also a bit of front-to-back pressure. That seems like the only spot. I guess I should *not* put a 2x4 directly under the crank pulley.

[vince1]

I'm sure people have lifted on the crank pulley before but maybe not a safe option. Chaining or roping from up top also works. Get a 2X4 in there and wiggle it around somehow. An engine lift would make it easy but you are so close.

[Cris]

A lot of the weight of the engine is being supported by the bellhousing engine mounts (which I assume you have not unbolted). You shouldn't have to apply much pressure in getting the fronts lined up. You could even (gently) push from the oil pan if you use a piece of wood to spread the load.

I agree with Vince, use a tapered pin to bring it into alignment, then slide the bolt in.

Oh....your situation is not unusual, they never line up perfectly. You always have to fuss to get them in.

[Praxiss454]

I spent several HOURS trying to get it lined up, but finally got it. What a pain in the butt. Happy to way, truck is all buttoned up and runs great. No leaks so far (knock on wood), glad to have this project behind me.

[andyh1956]

Originally Posted by Praxiss454

Rear main seal popped right out once I got a brass punch tool and could tap it out with confidence. Prior to that, like I mentioned earlier, I nicked the crankshaft , but I *think* it's only got low spots now, I knocked down the high spots, and I also think it might not hit the lip of the seal.

My plan as of now, and this might end up being a mistake, is to pop off the main and rod bearings, replace them w/ same size, clean everything up, put in the new seal, and call it a day. If it leaks again, then I might bite the bullet and pull the engine for a rebuild.

If your crank is worn some you can buy .001" under brgs to take up some slack.

[Cris]

Praxiss454:

Good the hear you're back on the road. That sounded like one of those projects that kept on giving, and not in a good way. Way to stick with it.

Cris

[Praxiss454]

Well I spoke too soon. After a longer drive yesterday, I've got a leak in roughly the same area as before. Maddening.

I think it's the curved rear part of the oil pan that has it's own section of the 4 piece gasket. The question is, do I want to go through all of this **** again to try to fix it.

[geezer#99]

If you do, don’t just replace the gasket.
Check the curved part of the pan is parallel to the curved part of the cap.
To do that just put a small flashlight in the pan and bolt the pan on with no gasket at the four corners. Easy to see any pinched parts on the curve.
Not hard to reshape the curve. Use a big chunk of pipe and a bfh to adjust it. You might need to do several checks and several progressively harder wacks to make it look good.

[61K10]

what sealer did you use on the corners front and back?

[Praxiss454]

Originally Posted by 61K10

what sealer did you use on the corners front and back?

RTV ultra black gasket maker. Used it to great success on my motorcycle in the past. I might not have applied it liberally enough in those corners, I was really trying to have a light touch.

[Cris]

Aargh, that does sound frustrating. Not sure if this was an issue but RTV's like Ultra Black require 24 hours to fully cure. Starting the engine before then can inhibit a full cure.

A really good sealant is Permatex "The Right Stuff". It adheres better than traditional RTV's and seals really well. It also can be put into service immediately (though I usually allow a cure time). You'll find many testimonials to it by Googling. Many shops won't use anything else. It is a little pricey.