55.2-59 Pulling an engine/tranny out of a van advice...I know someone has done it??

[dsraven]

if it was runnin and drivin well before you pulled it maybe just clean it up good, do a few seals that are easier to do when it's out (whatever that leak was) and then give it some paint before you toss it in. it isn't that hard to pull it out later if you find it isn't as good as you thought. don't over think it, just do it.
above all, post pics as you go. we can maybe point out a few things as you go but not if we can't see the progress. try to get them right side up though, my hang gliding harness is getting harder and harder to get into in the office......and turning the desk top screen all the time just gets me in trouble with the boss.

[dsraven]

you will likely have to cut the cross member at the rear of the engine and fab a new cross member for the new auto trans. some guys simply bolt a piece of square tube onto the bottom flange of the frame. this works but it's better for the frame if you bolt a flat flange onto the outside of the web of the frame that possibly hangs down a couple inches lower than the frame is, possibly with a square cut away in that lower part that is the same size as your square tube. then weld your square tube into that notch. tidy it all up after you know it fits etc. that way the cross member is easily removed later if you need to pull the engine or something. the square tube gets bent lower in the middle to accept the trans mount at the correct height and has a flat flange on it for the trans mount to bolt to. quick and painless.

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by dsraven

you will likely have to cut the cross member at the rear of the engine and fab a new cross member for the new auto trans. some guys simply bolt a piece of square tube onto the bottom flange of the frame. this works but it's better for the frame if you bolt a flat flange onto the outside of the web of the frame that possibly hangs down a couple inches lower than the frame is, possibly with a square cut away in that lower part that is the same size as your square tube. then weld your square tube into that notch. tidy it all up after you know it fits etc. that way the cross member is easily removed later if you need to pull the engine or something. the square tube gets bent lower in the middle to accept the trans mount at the correct height and has a flat flange on it for the trans mount to bolt to. quick and painless.

This isn't the right one for my application....have to find it but something like this would support the frame better like you are saying right?

[mr48chev]

They make those "universal transmission crossmembers" with all kinds of drops in them from just being a straight tube with a mount tab on it to six or eight inch drops. I'd set the front up, Level the engine and trans up in the frame and then figure out the drop I needed. This Amazon link shows several different drops https://www.amazon.com/universal-tra...on+crossmember

The Transdapt part numbers can usually be bought at O'Reillys and brought in with a stock order or found on Ebay but if you have Amazon prime the total cost with shipping is great for comparison.

[dsraven]

set the truck at the rake angle you will have when done, level side to side and then block it there so you can work on it without worry of it falling on you or moving angle
set the engine at 3deg down at the rear and block it up under the trans pan using a piece of plywood or something bigger than the pan to spread the weight over the area of the whole pan, don't wanna bend or dent the pan
install the trans mount on the trans and put a little piece of 1/8 or 1/4" plywood under the mount. this is so the new crossmember will be too low by a little to allow you to shim the trans mount to get the engine at the correct angle when matching the driveline angles when it comes time
fab a new crossmember or do the measurements and buy a crossmember kit. the kits like the pic posted are pretty easy to build as you can see. lots of guys use square tubing because you can cut angles and weld the joints together easier than using round tubing. a good way to start is to cut a bolt up a piece of wood or metal to the trans mount, one about as wide as the frame on the truck. then you can level that and block it so it doesn't move around while doing some measurements. now you can do the dimensions for how much drop you will need for your kit, OR, you can fab your own crossmember from your dimensions. you can see the frame mounting brackets in the kit are simply u shaped pieces of flat sheet that are bolted to the upper and lower frame flanges on each side. those parts would be easy to fab or have a sheet metal shop bend a piece twice as long as 1 part and then slice that in half so you have a set. or even if you did that part yourself and the end pieces of the U were welded on instead of bent. then your cross bar piece would be bent or pieced together symmetrically from cut parts to get the ends of the cross piece to be roughly in the middle of those frame mounting parts. then they could simply be welded to the frame pieces or you could cap the cross bar ends with some flat sheet and then bolt the cross bar to the frame pieces so it is easier to remove if needed. slot those holes some to allow for some wiggle room when the trans mount squishes out some under the weight when the blocking is removed finally.
another idea for the do it yourself type could be using bolted on angle iron on the upper and lower frame flanges, then a flat sheet could bolt to those to form the U shaped parts on the frame, then continue on building the crossbar like above.
if you wanted to use round tubing like the kit you could do a wooden mock up from 2x2's and hold it all together with plywood gussets screwed on the sides over the joint areas, then source some DOM (drawn over mandrel) tubing and have it bent at a local muffler shop who has a hydraulic bender, to match your mock up pattern. then bring it all home and bolt it up to the trans, put a jack under the new crossmember, so the mount becomes loaded as it would be but sitting on the jack, and remove the blocking under the pan. reset the angle of the engine again by adjusting the jack under the new crossbar piece. with the frame blocked apart at the correct dimension, to ensure it remained straight fore to aft ( I use cut to length 2x4's for this. one on the upper and one on the lower flange of the frame rails somewhere close to the work area but leaving room to work), you can now level up the new crossmember side to side and tack weld the ends onto the frame mounting parts already bolted on the frame.
just some suggestions. square tubing is also bendable but you have to be careful to "crush" the inner area of the tubing as it is bent otherwise the steel on the outside of the bend area stretches and deforms to become less strong and also the sides of the tubing tend to flatten out. below are few videos showing how som home builders bend the square tubing. the first one shows the theory of where it needs to bend compared to where it wants to bend.
hope it helps.

https://www.google.com/search?source...vz-gTKhpzACA21


https://www.google.com/search?source...vz-gTKhpzACA26

[Missyblue]

Thanks mr48chevy and dsraven for the tips. I'll be processing this soon. I'm super grateful I have a local hot rod builder that offered to come on a weekend with his plastic engines and whatnot and help us figure this out hopefully. But I will definitely study your suggestions to have some ideas of what to do. Its greatly appreciated. I do have the trans crossmember from the donor van but I think it's more complicated to use it than make or buy something else haha. Maybe use pieces of it I guess

[dsraven]

you will need to have your truck at the rake angle you want when done, then set the engine down at the rear about 3 deg. measure off the oil pan rail on the block if that is easy. then fab up a cross member that works or buy one if you like.
here is a cross member I made for a 57 frame. the frame is boxed so there is a flange welded on to simulate the lower frame flange. easily bent up from square tube with a flat bracket welded on to fit up to the trans mount. I planned to brace the cross member up to the top frame rail as well after the exhaust was plumbed in but sold it before it got that far. just an idea for you. if bending square tube just be sure to collapse the inside of the bend some so the outside of the bend doesn't stretch and try to flatten the tube out. or just cut the tube at an angle and weld the other part on to make a corner.

[mr48chev]

If you are keeping the engine FI it doesn't matter anyhow as all the engine angle setup with exact angle is all about float level in the carb and not a concern with a FI engine.

Set the chassis level, install the engine with the standard engine install in that level frame and call it good. I'm thinking that is about 3 degrees angle on the crank/main shaft of the trans but now it is more about getting the right setup for the driveshaft lineup than it is about the float bowl that you don't have being level.

[Greg58]

I have a friend who owns a scrap metal business. One day he calls me and says I need to come down and look at this motor home he just brought in.
We pulled the engine cover inside between the seats and there was a practically new crate 454 and t-400.
I said I want it! then reality set in wondering how much work this job was going to entail.
Next thing I know he is coming up with his skid steer with a bad a$$ shear on front.
He started cutting pieces off the front and all I did was throw the chunks into the back.
I'll bet we had the engine and trans out in 45 minutes!

[mr48chev]

Originally Posted by Greg58

I have a friend who owns a scrap metal business. One day he calls me and says I need to come down and look at this motor home he just brought in.
We pulled the engine cover inside between the seats and there was a practically new crate 454 and t-400.
I said I want it! then reality set in wondering how much work this job was going to entail.
Next thing I know he is coming up with his skid steer with a bad a$$ shear on front.
He started cutting pieces off the front and all I did was throw the chunks into the back.
I'll bet we had the engine and trans out in 45 minutes!

Those scrap yard guys live in a totally different world than we do. It's amazing how fast you can take an older motor home or travel trailer down to the bare frame with not much more than a sawzall with a good quality demo blade though. My sailboat trailer is made out of an old 26 ft travel trailer that I cut apart in sections saved and sold the aluminum siding off and hauled the cut up sections of side wall and roof to the dump in a stack in my pickup.

[Missyblue]

Started the rebuild today. Dad taught me to do the calves cover gaskets today. Super cool!! Anyone have ideas of how to prop up and engine with transmission attached. It's currently sitting on a big tire on the floor. Not so exciting for getting to that front seal. I saw engine cradles we can get and maybe just support the transmission somehow. We are doing spark plugs next and then the front main seal

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

If you are keeping the engine FI it doesn't matter anyhow as all the engine angle setup with exact angle is all about float level in the carb and not a concern with a FI engine.

Set the chassis level, install the engine with the standard engine install in that level frame and call it good. I'm thinking that is about 3 degrees angle on the crank/main shaft of the trans but now it is more about getting the right setup for the driveshaft lineup than it is about the float bowl that you don't have being level.

Thank you for the info I was worried how I'm supposed to get the right level when theres so many still hidden variables....tires.....new front suspension settling etc...

So many variables to ponder haha

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by dsraven

you will need to have your truck at the rake angle you want when done, then set the engine down at the rear about 3 deg. measure off the oil pan rail on the block if that is easy. then fab up a cross member that works or buy one if you like.
here is a cross member I made for a 57 frame. the frame is boxed so there is a flange welded on to simulate the lower frame flange. easily bent up from square tube with a flat bracket welded on to fit up to the trans mount. I planned to brace the cross member up to the top frame rail as well after the exhaust was plumbed in but sold it before it got that far. just an idea for you. if bending square tube just be sure to collapse the inside of the bend some so the outside of the bend doesn't stretch and try to flatten the tube out. or just cut the tube at an angle and weld the other part on to make a corner.

Thank you for the photo idea I'm still trying to decide fab or buy haha

[dsraven]

To block engine for stability while out you can make a simple crate style affair out of scrap lumber. Run a 2x6 on edge front to rear on the oil pan rails of the block. Connect them with some 2x4 cross bracing at the front and rear so they cant spread apart. This stabilizes pretty well and allows work on front seal area with the engine sitting on the crate. The trans can easily be unbolted if desired. If auto, unbolt the torque converter from the flex plate first, push the torque converter back into the trans before unbolting the trans from the block. If keeping the trans bolted up then it can be supported under the oil pan bolt flange as required to level it up or simply some blocks under the trans pan.
A big help on those valve covers is to use some longer aftermarket parts that spread the weight of the fasteners over a bigger area, sorta like using a bigger washer, so the tin work doesnt bend when you torque down the retainer bolts. The silicone gaskets are a bonus too.
When replacing the front seal pull the vibration damper off using a proper tool and a puller centering tool so the puller bolt doesnt bear down directly on the crankshaft but on the center tool instead. With a direct contact between the puller bolt and the crank snout you can end up damaging the threads in the snout. then check the balancer for a groove where the seal lips ride on the sealing surface. A speedi sleeve and seal kit is available, google it for an image. Also, on installation of the damper, use a stud threaded into the crank snout with appropriate washer and nut to pull the balancer onto the crank. Dont hammer the balancer back on because it isn't good for the balancer or the crank thrust bearing. The balancer is a heavy ring vulcanized to a center hub. Hammering on this set up can cause the vulcanized parts to separate from each other after start up. Not good. I usually make a reference mark on the back side so I can check later to ensure the two parts have not moved in relation to each other. A paint marker felt pen or even a tire crayon works. If you notice the rubber vulcanized part is soft or seems to have some rubber sticking out more in a certain spot then for sure replace it or at least keep an eye on it . I have seen them where the outer ring has "walked around" the inner ring so setting the timing is not possible and there is usually a vibration. I have also seen the outer ring come almost off. If the engine was a leaker at some point then the rubber can get soft and start to delaminate from the two parts.
It is also an idea to turn the engine one direction about a half rotation. To ensure the timing chain is tightened up, make a mark on the crank that lines up with the timing pointer, then slowly turn the engine the other direction while watching the distributor rotor. Stop turning the engine when the rotor just starts to move then make note of how many degrees the crank turned before the rotor turned. This gives an idea of how much slack there is in the timing chain components. Just keep in mind that there is also the distributor gear train as well, in that equation, so movement is not ALL chain slack. Easier to change timing components with the engine out. Be careful though, this can be a slippery slope that turns into one of those "while it's out I might as well" exercises. If it was a good runner before sometimes you're better off with a couple of easy seals, a few gaskets and a can of paint. At least till you drive it a bit and get a bead on the condition of the rest of the engine.

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by dsraven

. Be careful though, this can be a slippery slope that turns into one of those "while it's out I might as well" exercises. If it was a good runner before sometimes you're better off with a couple of easy seals, a few gaskets and a can of paint. At least till you drive it a bit and get a bead on the condition of the rest of the engine.

Awesome tips thanks! And so this is my dilemma. It was a good runner before we pulled it. Just hard to tell if it was leaking as it was cksted in power steering fluid. Probably should have washed it and ran it a bit before I pulled it but it was so hard to get to anything in that van. The valve covers seals we pulled were in pretty good shape so was making me debate If we really want to do the front main seal. But from what I read the seals are both time and mileage sensitive and we currently have all the front accessories off so almost seems silly to not try them now? The engine has roughly 30k but probably at least 10 years or so in it because they didnt drive much.

[dsraven]

Front seal is cheap and easy. Clean the area first before pulling the damper. Screw a sheet metal screw into the seal metal part slightly, the pull it out with voice grips.

[joedoh]

on a related note my buddy wanted to scrap his convertible blazer project, colder weather means family fighting for garage space in his suburban HOA home. I offered to liberate the 100k mile 4.3 and brand new 4l60e for a future project and save him the tow bill. didnt even take it off the trailer! got the disc rear too.

[_Ogre]

i consider 100k mile 4.3, dang near new in my neck o da woods
is m18 sawzall the best tool for tearing stuff apart or what?
if i can pry it out of my wife's hands while she's doing yardwork

[dsraven]

yep, sawzall and squirt bottle of soapy water. bingo bango.
there is a big difference in the blades and how they cut. if you win the lottery try a hilti fire and rescue blade or a lennox gold 960G demolition blade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mk0HiQjmrw

[Missyblue]

Rebuild moving forward! Valve covers, timing chain, front main seal, oil pan gasket done and checked rear main and it looks good. So now putting it all back together so I can stick it in this truck!!

[dsraven]

the last bearing to get oil on the crankshaft is the number 1 cylinder rod bearing. if it's still apart you could check that if you wanted. I suggest a strip of plastigage to check the clearances as well, just for peace of mind. up to you though. probably be fine.
here is how it works. not as accurate as a micrometer and bore gauge but it's what lots of guys use to get an idea at least.

https://www.plastigaugeusa.com/how.html