47-55.1 s10 suspension in an AD pickup.

[nvrdone]

rumors are that an s10 front suspension fits in an AD series pickup.
Supposedly the s10 saddle is 1/2" wider than the ad frame, so you just need 1/4" spacers on each side. The track width is said to be the same.
Can anyone verify or deny this info?
Has anyone seen it done?
Thanks.

[leegreen]

s10 does not have a removable cross member?

[dsraven]

I think the s10 2wd front end is narrower than the stock AD truck axle if measured from the wheel mounting surface (wms) on both set ups. it seems to me the stock 2 wd S10 was 54 1/2 inches from the wms to wms. if you look up or ask about track width be sure to say what you are looking for because some will say the spec for the center of the tread to the center of the tread and others will use the wms dimension while still others will mention from the backing plates on the brakes. when you use other than the wms dimension then there are factors like different wheel offsets to consider. when you use the backing plate dimension there is the wheel offset plus brake size etc. anyway, also know that the stock s10 rear axle wms is wider than the front wms and the 4x4 rear axle is even wider and then there is the ZR2 models that are wider front and rear. you gotta look up the specs or ask somebody that has one. there used to be a site called gmupfitters that had the specs for the s10 but they fell off the site due to age. I have the printed version someplace. I think the ZR2 models had a wider stance due to longer control arms and possibly different spindles. they were 4x4 though so you likely don't want that stuff anyway.

[dsraven]

a quick blurb on the s10 models. width dimensions are usually overall body width on this site I think.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_S-10

[nvrdone]

Well, I had a talk with a friend tonight who is a noted hot rod builder here in Yakima. He says the s10 front saddle is part of the frame. It does not bolt in. OH well, another idea down the tube.

[dsraven]

that is true, its a complete unit with the frame rails right back to somewhere just under the driver's seat, where it slips together with the rear section of the frame and is welded there. there are lots of builds that have used the s10 frame as a swap and to get the wheel base correct they cut that weld and slip the frame together some or they slip the frame apart some and then square it all up and weld it back together like factory. the 60-66 and the 73-87 trucks have a bolt in front cross member. not sure about the 67-72 trucks. the wms dimension is usually too wide. there is a fella on here that took tge 73-87 cross member and narrowed it. it was a 1 ton unit I think. there are some who have used the front suspension from a ford crown victoria as it is a bolt in affair. not sure of the wms dimension.

[dsraven]

the 73-87 cross member was 6DoF's build. still current on the forum. he shows pics at the beginning of his 1 ton diesel build.

[leegreen]

C10 coil spring IFS cross member bolts in the same from the first one in 1963(?) until 1986-ish

C10 IFS is too wide for AD fenders. The cross member - frame mount width may be close but the control arms are long

6DoF's very nice build is a TF truck using 1 ton C30 IFS and dually style deep offset rims to get the tires inside the TF fenders Plus TF are somewhat wider than AD

I started my build in 1980 and used a full 1964-65 c10 frame, trailing arm rear is the right width, I narrowed the IFS cross member and center link to get the wheels under the fenders. Life happened, but I got it 90% finished and on the road last summer. It drives and rides fine, about like you'd expect a fixed up c10 of that vintage to ride, probably better since the rear springs are Chevelle wagon with air shocks for cargo capacity. And much better riding that a stock AD. This spring's projects include PS and probably front disk if I find some stock height 73-77 spindles



Would I do it again?
In 1980, yes as there were not many IFS options other than using a car front clip and so many of those were very rudely done back then, they did not inspire confidence this was the right way to go.

Today, there is no chance I'd do this C10 into AD swap. I'd go stock axle, or stock frame with M11 crossmember , or S10 swap, depending on condition of the truck I started with. Given the condition of most 'project' ADs for sale S10 swap seems most likely.

I find it surprising no-one has come up with a crossmember kit to use s10 suspension on old frames the same way MII stuff is used

crownvic is a nice suspension unit but too wide for 50s trucks

[mr48chev]

S-10 swap is ok if all you have of the AD is a cab and a pile of parts that are supposes to be for that cab.
Back in the 90's you could drag S-10 logbeds out with blown up 4 cylinders out og peoples yards for free and maybe have tp give 100 bucks. Make up a set of cab mounts. joedoe makes and sells ones that work that still keep the budget in order.

Now guys buy a nice running and driving 3100, rip the very nice 3100 chassis out and pay 1500 for the Kit to set the body on the S-10 they paid 3K for. Because the spit and whittle club said that is the only way to go. That is what burns my biscuits. taking a real nice truck apart to stick a worn out work truck chassis under it and then changing half of that chassis to have it work right under an AD.

My old cab, parts from my donor cabs and a few more parts would make some guy a fair to middling chopped AD with suicide doors beater sitting on an S-10 chassis. I've even got the 51 4100 door post tag and paperwork for that cab. I'm not sure it would be worth the effort but the buy in on this end is mostly ones labor to help remove what i need to keep. I'm not sure what i am going to do with the left overs but the younger the guy who asks is the better the price. I was going to sell at a couple of swapmeets this year but don't see it happening right now. I am bunged up and so is my son in law.

Remember that you have never seen yhose talking heads at Barrett Jackson and Mecom auctions rave about the Wunnerful S-10 chassis under an AD truck. I don't think Barrett Jackson lets them in the auction or if they do they are sole early in the week with the other cheap cars.

There are too many options around now that weren't available in 2000.

[dsraven]

hey nvr, maybe post up a few pics of your truck and a quick explanation of what you have under it and what you want it to be when it is all grown up. do you want an affordable daily or weekend driver, a trailer queen, something that has all the brand name bells and whistles, something that is built from bolt on stuff that you built yourself or something that is a custom fabricated deal that is jackson or mecum worthy? you have had a few posts regarding suspension, brakes, steering etc so we gotta put two and two together and wonder what it is you have and what you wanna do with it. if you don't wanna post pics or give any info then thats fine too. keep asking questions and hopefully you can come up with a plan and your dreams won't fizzle out. in the end it is your truck and your wallet so you can do what you want to or what you can afford. I have seen lots of guys who have a truck or car projecrt but didn't start on it till they bought a garage full of all the whizzie things they thought they needed. then they get the project apart and realize they are in over their head or else they change their mind and wanna go a different direction. I have seen guys who have wheels, tires, stereo equipment, chrome doo dads etc but the project is still sitting where the tow operator left it because they don't really know where to start. sometimes the drive fizzles completely and the project gets sold or a tarp gets thrown over it. hopefully we can help you get where you wanna be with yours.

[nvrdone]

OK, I dont have the ability to post pictures right now but there are some pictures on here of the truck decorated in christmas lights
A little background. It's a 1949 chevy 3100 3 window that I've been driving since 1973.327 / m21 4 spd/ 12 bolt with 3:55's.
In the last year since I retired i've done some upgrades and now I want to replace the front suspension. Right now its a 3" dropped axle with power drum brakes and stock steering.I want to go IFS with power disc brakes on the front.
I heard rumors that an s10 front suspension was a bolt on - not a welded part of the frame.
After talking with a friend who is a noted hot rod builder here in Yakima and has built a number of AD trucks, that info is incorrect.
We are now talking out plans as to what components to use to continue making it a comfortable daily / long distance hauler.

[dsraven]

you know what I would do if I were you, since you have a truck you like and don't wanna do a bunch of crazy stuff spending time and money , is look into a bolt in IFS . here is a link to a you tube showing how one fella has done his 54 chevy truck. he removed the engine etc but that may not be a must do, it would make it easier though. there are a few ifs kits out there that bolt on. that way you can do as much of it as possible. if you want to, sfter it is in place and you had it aligned and drove it for a bit to see how it rides etc, you could have a few weld beads put on at strategic spots to keep thongs exactly right. just an idea.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Px_pMLRLTWHBf2

[nvrdone]

This shop has done many AD pickups. They use Welder Series cross members and Global West Chevelle brakes and suspension with manual pr power rack.
I drove Mike's personal truck and man it drives and rides nice. He does have a 4 link with coil overs in the rear which will come later

[dsraven]

well, for USD money you can't beeat buying the parts from welders series in Canada. great parts and the USD goes waaay further. I have used some of their stuff, they have lots or fabrication nick nacks, tubes, rod ends, urethane parts etc.
post up some pics when you get time. before you start anything take some good pics for your photo album so you can look back and go "wow, thats differnt now"

[dsraven]

welders series has a contact number. if possible, I would contact them and ask if they have an upgrade kit for the upper control arm pivot where they bolt onto the frame bracket. their advertised kit shows the older style mount where the shaft is bolted to the frame bracket with T bolts and is adjusted for camber etc by the slots in the frame brackets. this is ok but some with this style have said that when the front wheel hits a pot hole or whatever those T bolts can move slightly and that puts the alignment outta whack. the newer style mounts have a vertical bracket there and shims are used behind the control arm pivot shaft for alignment, which is better in my opinion, like a lot of newer vehicles use. doing a quick google search I found that TCI has a pic on their site that shows the newer style. don't get me wrong, there are lots of the older style ones driving around out there working just fine. I'm just saying it doesn't hurt to ask or, if you and your shop fella think it better, shop around or modify the welders series one to be like the newer style ones that may be stronger. depending on what you plan to put up there for weight it may be in your best interests. like a big block engine in a heavy vehicle might be a lot for those T bolts to hold up. just thought it something to ask about. your hotrod shop fella likely has a view he can explain to you.

[dsraven]

looking at the welders series kit, it doesn't look to be that difficult to fabricate and weld on an upright plate with holes drilled to accept bolts that would hold the upper control arm pivot shaft. wled it on at the rear of the upper bracket in such a way that the shaft would be able to be in the same place as it would if it were bolted to the very back of the horizontal plate and then shims could be used for adjustment.
just a thought. like I said, there are lots of vehicles driving around trouble free with the other set up. this could be modification made later should you find the T bolts are a problem. likely fine with a small block in a light truck.

[mr48chev]

The "I've heard rumors that the S-10 front end is a bolt on" means that you have been talking to the wrong people. Guys have welded the S-10 front frame section on AD frames a few times but there are better options for donor rig front clips. To me subframing an AD is obsolute 80's cobble it together tech no matter what clip you use.

Donor rig wise Jag XJ around 1980) could be done pretty much as a bolt on if one thought it out.

Bolt on crossmember= the Chassis Engineering Inc unit that Heidts still sells or the Speedway clone is pretty simple.

Another option if the crossmember is available is the Indistrial Chassis inc Dakota crossmember. just under 1K now but Steve is having a hard time getting them built.
https://www.industrialchassisinc.com...ota-based-ifs/

https://www.industrialchassisinc.com/ is the brake upgrade.

It looks like he is back in a shop of his own and not working at Phoenix hot rods so the crossmembers might be available now or soon

https://www.facebook.com/industrialchassis/ I already have all the Dakota parts that i salvaged off a truck i bought and then sold to Woffords. the crossmember is a tad spendy but the Dakota parts should be pretty reasonable.

[nvrdone]

I did get the info that the s10 is not a bolt in.
Mike is now working up some ideas and costs for me, so this project may be done some time this fall.
Thanks guys for all the info and ideas.
Hey 48 - just wondering how you are doing.

[dsraven]

Sounds good nvr
Mr48, your data entry skills are pretty good for a 1armed bandit. Lol. Or maybe you're using voice to text tech? How is the pain level these days?

[mr48chev]

Getting up around 4 k when all is said and done and I don't think you plan to lay frame but this kit from Rydman Ranch down in Prineville is a cut your frame at this spot and weld them together deal

Thinking about it it's Not much more than a lot of guys are tying up in S-10 frame swaps before they swap rear axles though https://www.rydmanranch.com/product-page/47-54-ifs-kit Not members here but I have seen guys on FB who paid 3K for a rather nice S-10 longbed, 1500 plus for the kit and then tied another K in the front suspension along with the 4 link and wider axle for the rear end.