uuummmmm??? - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

bbchevy · 03-14-2005, 11:02 PM

i just dont get it.... i twist the distributer till the motor runs smooth... then i check it with the timing light. nothing... so i had my dad watch it with the light while i did the twisting.... the timing is retarded.... so i advanced it.... when it finally started showing up in the marks... the engine was barely running. whats goin on here?!!?!?!?!?? im tellin ya... pretty soon im gonna plead insanity

badone07 · 03-14-2005, 11:06 PM

did someone change the balancer or timing cover?

andrew king · 03-14-2005, 11:07 PM

Is it a tooth off or ???? Propably not 180degrees out propably a tooth off

bbchevy · 03-14-2005, 11:21 PM

ya see thats the thing... i've been messing with it for about two days. when i think i have the dist perfect... i encounter the same problem.and the backfiring is driving me NuTs! im gonna be in a white jacket by the time i get this thing done. and can someone sent me a pic of your plug wires and the numbers on em. which socket is #1. when i got the truck it had no wires on it and the chiltons i have is useless, its like one of the first chiltons ever made for these trucks. im not sure which one on the cap is #1. i set it according to how the chiltons looks and the damn thing kicks back. so i set it to how i have it and it works... HeLp Me pLeAsE!

-Scott

Russell · 03-14-2005, 11:21 PM

Try idling it way up, then setting the timing to a ballpark figure, then idle it down a bit, and set the timing again, until you've gotten to the point that it is idling about 700 rpm, and is where you want it.

Timing will significantly affect engine idle speeds

bbchevy · 03-14-2005, 11:25 PM

when i idle it up it goes "pop ca pop pop pow pop pow" or something like that. and the "Y" pipe from the manifolds is shot so i was going to buy a new one from napa. the truck is an 86 which means it should have a 700r but it has a th350 so the cross member is back farther. should i get a y pipe for an 84 or something?
thanks
-scott

*1FaastC10* · 03-14-2005, 11:36 PM

adjust the timing so that it runs smooth, and starts easy both cold and hot, and adjust the idle at the carb. NEVER use the timing to adjust idle. another good way to adjust the timing is to hook a vac gauge to a direct manifold source, and adjust it for the highest vac reading you can get. then adjust your idle. i have adjusted several this way and never had a problem.

badone07 · 03-14-2005, 11:39 PM

not that it really matters where #1 is, as long as it's at tdc and correct firing order...

ok i crudely edited the pic. sorry would've took a pic, but there is a skunk presently under my truck that i don't want to get upset, by getting too close to it.

bbchevy · 03-14-2005, 11:42 PM

but what about the fact that it never goes into the timing marks? should i just do it by ear and by guess and say the hell with the timing light? this is all just kinda new to me. sorry for putting you guys threw all this. im just really confused. i thought the marks were supposed to somewhat line up.then it runs good, the mark on the balancer is about an inch retarded.
-scott

bbchevy · 03-14-2005, 11:43 PM

yea thats the same diagram as... well actually it looks like you scanned the chiltons lol. but yea i wish they showed the coil thingy on the top of the dist.

badone07 · 03-14-2005, 11:44 PM

that's why i asked if someone switched the balancer or timing chain cover. which sounds exactly what your problem is. where is the tab positioned right now, directly under the water pump (12 o'clock) or towards the drivers side (like 1 o'clock)?

bbchevy · 03-14-2005, 11:47 PM

the tab is more toward the drivers side...

-scott

bbchevy · 03-14-2005, 11:49 PM

i just dont know if the balancer or timing chain cover have been touched... this is the way i got it. there seem to be alot of unknowns with this motor. im basically starting from scratch. i bought it not running but supposedly it ran prior to my purchasing it. it also sat for about a year before i bought it.

bbchevy · 03-14-2005, 11:50 PM

oh and the motor had an edel intake and carb. so the dist has to have been taken out in the past.

badone07 · 03-15-2005, 12:10 AM

i edited the pic above. might as well start from scratch.

might be best to just turn over motor by hand to tdc. then pop off the cap and see where rotor is pointing. sounds like maybe the wires are not positioned right. maybe prior owner just dropped distributor and rotated wires.

ok, also assuming the vacuum advance is disconnected and the motor is idling at about 700 rpms when trying to time it. there are a couple of things it could be, the outter ring of the balancer could've also spun. no such thing as a "tooth off" with a distributor drop, other than the vacuumm advance hitting the firewall or intake. the timing chain would have to be off a tooth.

piecesparts · 03-15-2005, 12:21 AM

Let's go to the basics of this issue---- Take the motor to TDC on the #1 cylinder (this is with the intake and exhaust valves closed), check the timing marks on the harmonic dampener (should be at TDC or "0"), now look at the distributor rotor (it should be oriented at the #1 spark plug wire--if not then the distributor may need to be rotated a tooth). If the dampener is not at TDC, then change it out for another one.

bbchevy · 03-15-2005, 12:30 AM

ok, ill try what you guys have told me tomarrow and ill update you on the status as i go. but real quick, i bought the y pipe from napa. the one for the 86 700r. im bringing it back tomarrow because it hits the crossmember. what year should i get a y pipe for instead? thanks alot by the way guys. sorry if my idiot mind has driven you guys insane.
-scott

bbchevy · 03-15-2005, 12:31 AM

btw the truck has a th350 in it now
thanks

1986Silverado · 03-15-2005, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbchevy

ok, ill try what you guys have told me tomarrow and ill update you on the status as i go. but real quick, i bought the y pipe from napa. the one for the 86 700r. im bringing it back tomarrow because it hits the crossmember. what year should i get a y pipe for instead? thanks alot by the way guys. sorry if my idiot mind has driven you guys insane.
-scott

Tell them it has a th-350. Mine is an '86 also and came with the TH-350 from the factory. So they did come with the TH-350 in '86.

Slonaker · 03-15-2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1986Silverado

Tell them it has a th-350. Mine is an '86 also and came with the TH-350 from the factory. So they did come with the TH-350 in '86.

Yep. Mine came with a TH350 from the factory as well.

Slonaker

EDIT: This might help you get everything straightened out with the distributor if it was installed incorrectly:

http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/disremov.htm

MylilBowTie · 03-15-2005, 03:56 PM

Maybe the balancer has slipped? Those are TH350c's (lockup torque convertors).

bbchevy · 03-16-2005, 12:03 AM

ok, so i put exhaust on the truck today and new plugs. for some reason when the truck is cold( i shut the choke off) it seems to run the best. i can almost actually drive it down the road... but when it warms up all i hear from the exhaust if popping and backfiring and it backfires real loud when i go to take off. so i lack bottom and top end... and i suck at this whole timing thing. and i have no money to have someone else do it for me. and im wasting money with insurance because its on the road and i havent been able to drive it for about two weeks. AAAHHH im cant take it.

bbchevy · 03-16-2005, 12:05 AM

oh and to top it all off... it shifts real quick through the gears so by about 15 mph its in 3rd. does that have to do with the detent cable at the carb? and how do i fix it.
thanks alot for all your help guys!

-Scott

pedrofixlater · 03-18-2005, 10:03 AM

Not to insult your intellegence but are you disconnecting the vaccum advance before trying to set the timing.

Ric83 · 03-18-2005, 01:24 PM

My buddy's truck was doing that. We ended up just adjusting the card and timing by ear and forgot about the timing gun. It ran really well afterwards. Never did figure out why it was doing it either.

03-14-2005, 11:06 PM	#2
badone07 Project 2 Resume Join Date: May 2004 Location: Jim Thorpe, PA Posts: 884	did someone change the balancer or timing cover? __________________ John 1984 C30 Chevy Crew Cab Dually 1998 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 2004 Chevy Trailblazer 4x4 (wife's) 1970 Mustang FB fully tubed (getting 521 BBF & powerglide) 1978 Nova 2dr (going BBCaddy & S.P. th400) 1984 Monte SS (circle track car)

03-14-2005, 11:21 PM	#5
Russell Professional Grade Join Date: May 2003 Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta Posts: 7,915	Try idling it way up, then setting the timing to a ballpark figure, then idle it down a bit, and set the timing again, until you've gotten to the point that it is idling about 700 rpm, and is where you want it. Timing will significantly affect engine idle speeds __________________ 1995 Chevrolet 2 Door Tahoe (6.6L LBZ Duramax / ZF6 / NP241 with 1 ton solid axle swap)

03-14-2005, 11:39 PM	#8
badone07 Project 2 Resume Join Date: May 2004 Location: Jim Thorpe, PA Posts: 884	not that it really matters where #1 is, as long as it's at tdc and correct firing order... ok i crudely edited the pic. sorry would've took a pic, but there is a skunk presently under my truck that i don't want to get upset, by getting too close to it. Attached Images __________________ John 1984 C30 Chevy Crew Cab Dually 1998 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 2004 Chevy Trailblazer 4x4 (wife's) 1970 Mustang FB fully tubed (getting 521 BBF & powerglide) 1978 Nova 2dr (going BBCaddy & S.P. th400) 1984 Monte SS (circle track car) Last edited by badone07; 03-15-2005 at 12:07 AM.

03-14-2005, 11:44 PM	#11
badone07 Project 2 Resume Join Date: May 2004 Location: Jim Thorpe, PA Posts: 884	that's why i asked if someone switched the balancer or timing chain cover. which sounds exactly what your problem is. where is the tab positioned right now, directly under the water pump (12 o'clock) or towards the drivers side (like 1 o'clock)? __________________ John 1984 C30 Chevy Crew Cab Dually 1998 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 2004 Chevy Trailblazer 4x4 (wife's) 1970 Mustang FB fully tubed (getting 521 BBF & powerglide) 1978 Nova 2dr (going BBCaddy & S.P. th400) 1984 Monte SS (circle track car) Last edited by badone07; 03-14-2005 at 11:48 PM.

03-15-2005, 12:10 AM	#15
badone07 Project 2 Resume Join Date: May 2004 Location: Jim Thorpe, PA Posts: 884	i edited the pic above. might as well start from scratch. might be best to just turn over motor by hand to tdc. then pop off the cap and see where rotor is pointing. sounds like maybe the wires are not positioned right. maybe prior owner just dropped distributor and rotated wires. ok, also assuming the vacuum advance is disconnected and the motor is idling at about 700 rpms when trying to time it. there are a couple of things it could be, the outter ring of the balancer could've also spun. no such thing as a "tooth off" with a distributor drop, other than the vacuumm advance hitting the firewall or intake. the timing chain would have to be off a tooth. __________________ John 1984 C30 Chevy Crew Cab Dually 1998 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 2004 Chevy Trailblazer 4x4 (wife's) 1970 Mustang FB fully tubed (getting 521 BBF & powerglide) 1978 Nova 2dr (going BBCaddy & S.P. th400) 1984 Monte SS (circle track car)

03-14-2005, 11:02 PM	#1
bbchevy 87 Wanna Be K30 Join Date: May 2003 Location: long island, new york Posts: 218	uuummmmm??? i just dont get it.... i twist the distributer till the motor runs smooth... then i check it with the timing light. nothing... so i had my dad watch it with the light while i did the twisting.... the timing is retarded.... so i advanced it.... when it finally started showing up in the marks... the engine was barely running. whats goin on here?!!?!?!?!?? im tellin ya... pretty soon im gonna plead insanity

03-14-2005, 11:07 PM	#3
andrew king Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Susanville CA, home of 6000 convicts lol Posts: 157	Is it a tooth off or ???? Propably not 180degrees out propably a tooth off

03-14-2005, 11:25 PM	#6
bbchevy 87 Wanna Be K30 Join Date: May 2003 Location: long island, new york Posts: 218	when i idle it up it goes "pop ca pop pop pow pop pow" or something like that. and the "Y" pipe from the manifolds is shot so i was going to buy a new one from napa. the truck is an 86 which means it should have a 700r but it has a th350 so the cross member is back farther. should i get a y pipe for an 84 or something? thanks -scott

03-14-2005, 11:36 PM	#7
1FaastC10 Account Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Elkhart, IN Posts: 6,399	adjust the timing so that it runs smooth, and starts easy both cold and hot, and adjust the idle at the carb. NEVER use the timing to adjust idle. another good way to adjust the timing is to hook a vac gauge to a direct manifold source, and adjust it for the highest vac reading you can get. then adjust your idle. i have adjusted several this way and never had a problem.

03-14-2005, 11:42 PM	#9
bbchevy 87 Wanna Be K30 Join Date: May 2003 Location: long island, new york Posts: 218	but what about the fact that it never goes into the timing marks? should i just do it by ear and by guess and say the hell with the timing light? this is all just kinda new to me. sorry for putting you guys threw all this. im just really confused. i thought the marks were supposed to somewhat line up.then it runs good, the mark on the balancer is about an inch retarded. -scott

03-14-2005, 11:43 PM	#10
bbchevy 87 Wanna Be K30 Join Date: May 2003 Location: long island, new york Posts: 218	yea thats the same diagram as... well actually it looks like you scanned the chiltons lol. but yea i wish they showed the coil thingy on the top of the dist.

03-14-2005, 11:47 PM	#12
bbchevy 87 Wanna Be K30 Join Date: May 2003 Location: long island, new york Posts: 218	the tab is more toward the drivers side... -scott

03-14-2005, 11:49 PM	#13
bbchevy 87 Wanna Be K30 Join Date: May 2003 Location: long island, new york Posts: 218	i just dont know if the balancer or timing chain cover have been touched... this is the way i got it. there seem to be alot of unknowns with this motor. im basically starting from scratch. i bought it not running but supposedly it ran prior to my purchasing it. it also sat for about a year before i bought it.

03-14-2005, 11:50 PM	#14
bbchevy 87 Wanna Be K30 Join Date: May 2003 Location: long island, new york Posts: 218	oh and the motor had an edel intake and carb. so the dist has to have been taken out in the past.

03-15-2005, 12:21 AM	#16
piecesparts Parts and more parts Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lebo, Kansas (middle of nowhere Posts: 6,821	Let's go to the basics of this issue---- Take the motor to TDC on the #1 cylinder (this is with the intake and exhaust valves closed), check the timing marks on the harmonic dampener (should be at TDC or "0"), now look at the distributor rotor (it should be oriented at the #1 spark plug wire--if not then the distributor may need to be rotated a tooth). If the dampener is not at TDC, then change it out for another one.



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03-15-2005, 12:30 AM	#17
bbchevy 87 Wanna Be K30 Join Date: May 2003 Location: long island, new york Posts: 218	ok, ill try what you guys have told me tomarrow and ill update you on the status as i go. but real quick, i bought the y pipe from napa. the one for the 86 700r. im bringing it back tomarrow because it hits the crossmember. what year should i get a y pipe for instead? thanks alot by the way guys. sorry if my idiot mind has driven you guys insane. -scott

03-15-2005, 12:31 AM	#18
bbchevy 87 Wanna Be K30 Join Date: May 2003 Location: long island, new york Posts: 218	btw the truck has a th350 in it now thanks

03-15-2005, 03:56 PM	#21
MylilBowTie Right turn Clyde Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 2,911	Maybe the balancer has slipped? Those are TH350c's (lockup torque convertors). __________________ 1974 C25 LWB: 454 4bbl Carb / TH400 / 3.73 1992 Camaro RS 305 TBI

03-16-2005, 12:03 AM	#22
bbchevy 87 Wanna Be K30 Join Date: May 2003 Location: long island, new york Posts: 218	ok, so i put exhaust on the truck today and new plugs. for some reason when the truck is cold( i shut the choke off) it seems to run the best. i can almost actually drive it down the road... but when it warms up all i hear from the exhaust if popping and backfiring and it backfires real loud when i go to take off. so i lack bottom and top end... and i suck at this whole timing thing. and i have no money to have someone else do it for me. and im wasting money with insurance because its on the road and i havent been able to drive it for about two weeks. AAAHHH im cant take it.

03-16-2005, 12:05 AM	#23
bbchevy 87 Wanna Be K30 Join Date: May 2003 Location: long island, new york Posts: 218	oh and to top it all off... it shifts real quick through the gears so by about 15 mph its in 3rd. does that have to do with the detent cable at the carb? and how do i fix it. thanks alot for all your help guys! -Scott

03-18-2005, 10:03 AM	#24
pedrofixlater 75 STEPSIDE Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Suffolk, VA Posts: 92	Not to insult your intellegence but are you disconnecting the vaccum advance before trying to set the timing. __________________ Pete 75 Chevy Stepside 70 Buick Skylark/GS

03-18-2005, 01:24 PM	#25
Ric83 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 824	My buddy's truck was doing that. We ended up just adjusting the card and timing by ear and forgot about the timing gun. It ran really well afterwards. Never did figure out why it was doing it either. __________________ Ric '83 Silverado SWB Fleetside Here she is

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