time to work on my engine...... - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

hewlett2002000 · 03-15-2008, 06:50 PM

ok im fixing to pull my 350 apart and get it hot-tanked (cleaned), and Magnafluxed for cracks. i dont think it needs to be bored but im gonna see what they say. in the mean time what do yall think about this kit?

http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...=11497#options

hoping to have my 66 back on the road in a few months. lemme know what yall think.
John

TimE · 03-15-2008, 08:29 PM

I have bought from Northern in the past and was pleased with the parts that I received. That looks like a nice and reasonably priced kit. Which cam are you planning on going with?

hewlett2002000 · 03-15-2008, 08:51 PM

not really sure yet. i still got a little while to think about it though.

**MikeB** · 03-15-2008, 09:02 PM

Looks like a decent kit. Which rods do you plan to use? And have you thought about simply having the existing crank checked and polished or ground? I built up a mild 350 using a junkyard late-80s block. The crank was almost perfect and cleaned up with a bit of polishing. The rods were good too, with 3-4 of them needing a slight touch-up with a hone. Total machine shop charge for crank and rods work was $45.

You will need to determine compression ratio before selecting a cam. To do this you will need to know the total volume of the piston valve reliefs (probably 5-7 cc), the head chamber volume, gasket thickness, and how far "down the hole" the pistons are. Or choose a cam based on the performance you want, and then "build" your compression ratio to match the cam's requirements.

If you stick a big cam in a 8:1 engine, you will have very poor cylinder pressure and low RPM torque. Conversely, a small cam in a 10:1 engine will create too much cylinder pressure and make for pre-ignition.

Also, with an aftermarket crank, I would get the rotating assembly balanced.

Hope this helps, even though it may be more info than you needed.

hewlett2002000 · 03-16-2008, 06:47 AM

nah man i like info. i always welcome a opportunity to get smarter!! lol thanks for the help. i got it all pulled apart and ready. dropped two pistons but luckily no damage. lol i was just gonna throw um in a box but decided to go ahead and label them as i dont know whats gonna happen along the lines of reassembly. better safe than sorry huh? lol heres a few pics.
John

*Billla* · 03-16-2008, 08:01 AM

All good kits - there are a few upgrades/questions

- DON'T buy a high volume oil pump!
- Brass freeze plugs (not steel)
- Why a NEW Scat crank instead of one of their ground ones?
- Didn't see the details on the cam...?
- CR?
- ALWAYS keep EVERYTHING during teardown...you never know

I think that's the big stuff

greg64 · 03-16-2008, 08:31 AM

The kit looks fine to me, but if you're going to buy a new crank (instead of grinding the existing), I'd look at this kit:
http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...ctModelId=1674

Might as well jump to the extra torque of the 383 if you've got the whole thing apart anyway.

Also, I'd agree with Billa that a high volume pump isn't needed. Just puts more strain on the distributor drive gear. If the clearances are correct, this isn't needed.

When you're breaking in the assembled engine, make sure you pre-lube and then use an oil with high zinc content (diesel oils are good for this). I've heard of a lot of guys wiping out new cam lobes because the current oils are low in zinc compared to where they used to be. Roller cams don't need the zinc, but flat tappet cams do (at least during the break in phase).

Another good upgrade is the cast iron Vortec heads, and they are quite reasonable $, but they require a new intake manifold because the bolt orientation is different.

Anyway, blah blah blah

hewlett2002000 · 03-16-2008, 08:52 AM

thanks, ill check that out. my plan was to build a 383 but money is a little short, i still might. i know for sure im going for the vortec heads. is there any difference in the gm intake and the edlebrock intake for vortec heads?
thanks for all the help,
John

**MikeB** · 04-19-2008, 08:26 PM

A 383 will require special block prep to clear crankshaft counterweights and rod clearancing (or a small base circle cam) to prevent rod / cam lobe interference. This stuff is not trivial.

I didn't know GM made a 4-bbl intake for Vortec heads. If they do, it's from GMPP and costs a lot! Holley/Weiand makes the best manifold for Vortec heads -- their P/N 8121. http://www.holley.com/8121.asp It's a brand new design.

billydonn · 04-19-2008, 11:04 PM

Its a good kit. I agree with avoiding the HV oil pump and trying to balance the rotating assembly. The forged rod upgrade for $149 looked like a good idea to me. Bad things can happen with fatigued rods!

Chevysdominate · 04-20-2008, 01:13 AM

WOW!! I've never seen such a clean break on a rod before. Most rods that failed on me came out looking like an iron/aluminum casserole gone bad

Quote:

Originally Posted by billydonn

Its a good kit. I agree with avoiding the HV oil pump and trying to balance the rotating assembly. The forged rod upgrade for $149 looked like a good idea to me. Bad things can happen with fatigued rods!

billydonn · 04-20-2008, 03:36 AM

This one went with no warning at all , far from home, and just at easy cruise RPM... you never know I guess. My replacement engine has all new GM parts, but my NEXT engine is going to have forged high perf. crank and rods even though it is mostly a cruiser. An emotional scar is left when your engine goes bang...

joe231 · 04-20-2008, 03:58 AM

guess you aren't going the newer EFI route?

**ChiefRocka** · 04-20-2008, 04:06 AM

I went with a High Pressure in my engine verses a High Volume....just curious as to why "NO on HV" ??

billydonn · 04-20-2008, 04:13 AM

Joe: If that question is for me, the engine broke while it was carburated and I replaced it with Gen I SBC engine. The tuned port EFI was a new idea, and added it a year after that. (I can always go back to my carb setup.) I'm not real interested in the newer EFI engines, although I'd never say never. It's partly the nostalgia of the Gen I engine and partly the cost/benefit ratio of the newer small block engines.

billydonn · 04-20-2008, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefRocka

I went with a High Pressure in my engine verses a High Volume....just curious as to why "NO on HV" ??

It can and often does cause excessive and unnecessary high oil pressure, putting a lot of stress on the distributor and cam gears that drive the oil pump. 50-60 lbs of hot oil pressure at cruise is plenty to keep one of these engines healthy.

joe231 · 04-20-2008, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billydonn

Joe: If that question is for me, the engine broke while it was carburated and I replaced it with Gen I SBC engine. The tuned port EFI was a new idea, and added it a year after that. (I can always go back to my carb setup.) I'm not real interested in the newer EFI engines, although I'd never say never. It's partly the nostalgia of the Gen I engine and partly the cost/benefit ratio of the newer small block engines.

sorry Billydonn, I was unclear, I was referring to hewletts other post about getting a TBI 90's donor truck, figured if he is rebuilding his motor he must have changed his mind.

billydonn · 04-20-2008, 04:37 AM

Joe: no problem... my regrets for cluttering up Hewlett's post!

hewlett2002000 · 04-20-2008, 07:12 AM

naw i dident get the donor truck. main reason being im still living at home and even though i have a huge shop i still get the same thing as you married guys get from your wives. my mother said.. "what do you need with another truck?? you have enough already. its a mess out there already with all that junk!! etc etc..... lol my only hope is to get rich, buy some land, build a huge shop and never get married!! lol what do ya think? my plans are still to rebuild my engine.
thanks,
John

joe231 · 04-20-2008, 07:45 AM

sounds like a plan....at the least get the truck done and all the toys you want before you get hitched

**MikeB** · 04-20-2008, 01:27 PM

I would definitely find out what kind of rods and bolts are included in the base price kit. I would not use rebuilt GM rods in a 383, unless they were pink rods or powdered metal rods and TRULY rebuilt, not just visually checked and cleaned.

When looking for a 383 rotating assembly many years ago, I stopped by a shop in Dallas that advertised in a few magazines. Over in a corner a guy had a box of old rods that he was cleaning with a wire wheel and a parts washer. From there they went to another guy who was hanging pistons on them. As far as I could tell, they didn't check them for roundness or trueness, and did not replace the bolts. And balancing? Who knows?

I ending up buying a complete rotating assembly from StrokerMotor.com, and even worked part-time there from 2002-2004. Their entry level 355 and 383 kits cost $999, but all parts are new, it is very well balanced, and includes flexplate and damper. Check them out at
http://www.strokermotor.com or 214.350.4979.

*Billla* · 04-20-2008, 03:39 PM

The NAP kit comes with SCAT I-beam rods for $159...a steal

Note that there's a balancing act (pun intended) here - if you go with a STOCK crank (one of NAPs regrinds), STOCK rods and hypereutectic pistons you're likely within the range where a balance is not required. If you go with aftermarket rods, which are lighter, you WILL need a balance. $250 for a balance and the economics take a little thinking before the right choice is clear.

03-15-2008, 06:50 PM	#1
hewlett2002000 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cleveland, Tx Posts: 1,619	time to work on my engine...... ok im fixing to pull my 350 apart and get it hot-tanked (cleaned), and Magnafluxed for cracks. i dont think it needs to be bored but im gonna see what they say. in the mean time what do yall think about this kit? http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...=11497#options hoping to have my 66 back on the road in a few months. lemme know what yall think. John __________________ Respect: 1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. 2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem. 3. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation. When you fail to show consideration to others values you are showing disrespect.

03-15-2008, 08:29 PM	#2
TimE Hey Y'all!! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bay Minette, Alabama Posts: 1,755	Re: time to work on my engine...... I have bought from Northern in the past and was pleased with the parts that I received. That looks like a nice and reasonably priced kit. Which cam are you planning on going with?

03-15-2008, 08:51 PM	#3
hewlett2002000 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cleveland, Tx Posts: 1,619	Re: time to work on my engine...... not really sure yet. i still got a little while to think about it though. __________________ Respect: 1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. 2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem. 3. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation. When you fail to show consideration to others values you are showing disrespect.

03-15-2008, 09:02 PM	#4
MikeB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: North Texas Posts: 3,597	Re: time to work on my engine...... Looks like a decent kit. Which rods do you plan to use? And have you thought about simply having the existing crank checked and polished or ground? I built up a mild 350 using a junkyard late-80s block. The crank was almost perfect and cleaned up with a bit of polishing. The rods were good too, with 3-4 of them needing a slight touch-up with a hone. Total machine shop charge for crank and rods work was $45. You will need to determine compression ratio before selecting a cam. To do this you will need to know the total volume of the piston valve reliefs (probably 5-7 cc), the head chamber volume, gasket thickness, and how far "down the hole" the pistons are. Or choose a cam based on the performance you want, and then "build" your compression ratio to match the cam's requirements. If you stick a big cam in a 8:1 engine, you will have very poor cylinder pressure and low RPM torque. Conversely, a small cam in a 10:1 engine will create too much cylinder pressure and make for pre-ignition. Also, with an aftermarket crank, I would get the rotating assembly balanced. Hope this helps, even though it may be more info than you needed. __________________ Mike 1969 C10 LWB -- owned for 35 years. 350/TH350, 3.08 posi, 1st Gen Vintage Air, recent AAW wiring harness, 5-lug conversion, 1985 spindles and brakes. 1982 C10 SWB -- sold 1981 C10 Silverado LWB -- sold, but wish I still had it! 1969 C10 (not the current one) that I bought in the early 1980s. Paid $1200; sold for $1500 a few years later. Just a hint at the appreciation that was coming. Retired as a factory automation products salesman. Worked part-time over the years for an engine builder and a classic car repair shop. Member here for 24 years! This is the very first car/truck Internet forum I joined. I still used a dial-up modem back then!

03-16-2008, 06:47 AM	#5
hewlett2002000 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cleveland, Tx Posts: 1,619	Re: time to work on my engine...... nah man i like info. i always welcome a opportunity to get smarter!! lol thanks for the help. i got it all pulled apart and ready. dropped two pistons but luckily no damage. lol i was just gonna throw um in a box but decided to go ahead and label them as i dont know whats gonna happen along the lines of reassembly. better safe than sorry huh? lol heres a few pics. John Attached Images __________________ Respect: 1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. 2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem. 3. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation. When you fail to show consideration to others values you are showing disrespect.

03-16-2008, 08:01 AM	#6
Billla Account Suspended Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Monroe, WA Posts: 3,814	Re: time to work on my engine...... All good kits - there are a few upgrades/questions - DON'T buy a high volume oil pump! - Brass freeze plugs (not steel) - Why a NEW Scat crank instead of one of their ground ones? - Didn't see the details on the cam...? - CR? - ALWAYS keep EVERYTHING during teardown...you never know I think that's the big stuff

03-16-2008, 08:31 AM	#7
greg64 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Kimberley, BC, Canada Posts: 799	Re: time to work on my engine...... The kit looks fine to me, but if you're going to buy a new crank (instead of grinding the existing), I'd look at this kit: http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...ctModelId=1674 Might as well jump to the extra torque of the 383 if you've got the whole thing apart anyway. Also, I'd agree with Billa that a high volume pump isn't needed. Just puts more strain on the distributor drive gear. If the clearances are correct, this isn't needed. When you're breaking in the assembled engine, make sure you pre-lube and then use an oil with high zinc content (diesel oils are good for this). I've heard of a lot of guys wiping out new cam lobes because the current oils are low in zinc compared to where they used to be. Roller cams don't need the zinc, but flat tappet cams do (at least during the break in phase). Another good upgrade is the cast iron Vortec heads, and they are quite reasonable $, but they require a new intake manifold because the bolt orientation is different. Anyway, blah blah blah __________________ Greg 64 GMC Suburban - 283, NV3500, 14 bolt 77 C10 swb - 292, SM465, 12 bolt

03-16-2008, 08:52 AM	#8
hewlett2002000 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cleveland, Tx Posts: 1,619	Re: time to work on my engine...... thanks, ill check that out. my plan was to build a 383 but money is a little short, i still might. i know for sure im going for the vortec heads. is there any difference in the gm intake and the edlebrock intake for vortec heads? thanks for all the help, John __________________ Respect: 1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. 2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem. 3. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation. When you fail to show consideration to others values you are showing disrespect.

04-19-2008, 08:26 PM	#9
MikeB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: North Texas Posts: 3,597	Re: time to work on my engine...... A 383 will require special block prep to clear crankshaft counterweights and rod clearancing (or a small base circle cam) to prevent rod / cam lobe interference. This stuff is not trivial. I didn't know GM made a 4-bbl intake for Vortec heads. If they do, it's from GMPP and costs a lot! Holley/Weiand makes the best manifold for Vortec heads -- their P/N 8121. http://www.holley.com/8121.asp It's a brand new design. __________________ Mike 1969 C10 LWB -- owned for 35 years. 350/TH350, 3.08 posi, 1st Gen Vintage Air, recent AAW wiring harness, 5-lug conversion, 1985 spindles and brakes. 1982 C10 SWB -- sold 1981 C10 Silverado LWB -- sold, but wish I still had it! 1969 C10 (not the current one) that I bought in the early 1980s. Paid $1200; sold for $1500 a few years later. Just a hint at the appreciation that was coming. Retired as a factory automation products salesman. Worked part-time over the years for an engine builder and a classic car repair shop. Member here for 24 years! This is the very first car/truck Internet forum I joined. I still used a dial-up modem back then! Last edited by MikeB; 04-19-2008 at 08:27 PM.

04-19-2008, 11:04 PM	#10
billydonn Council of the Elders Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 212	Re: time to work on my engine...... Its a good kit. I agree with avoiding the HV oil pump and trying to balance the rotating assembly. The forged rod upgrade for $149 looked like a good idea to me. Bad things can happen with fatigued rods! Attached Images __________________ 66 C-10 Stepside 350 Tuned Port Injection Tremec TKO-600 Truck Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/user/billydonn Truck Video: http://good-times.webshots.com/video...ost=good-times

04-20-2008, 03:36 AM	#12
billydonn Council of the Elders Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 212	Re: time to work on my engine...... This one went with no warning at all , far from home, and just at easy cruise RPM... you never know I guess. My replacement engine has all new GM parts, but my NEXT engine is going to have forged high perf. crank and rods even though it is mostly a cruiser. An emotional scar is left when your engine goes bang... __________________ 66 C-10 Stepside 350 Tuned Port Injection Tremec TKO-600 Truck Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/user/billydonn Truck Video: http://good-times.webshots.com/video...ost=good-times Last edited by billydonn; 04-20-2008 at 02:38 PM. Reason: creative impulse

04-20-2008, 03:58 AM	#13
joe231 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Palmer, Alaska Posts: 13,821	Re: time to work on my engine...... guess you aren't going the newer EFI route? __________________ *CHEVY ONLY*

04-20-2008, 04:06 AM	#14
ChiefRocka Hollister, CA. Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hollister, Ca. Posts: 6,150	Re: time to work on my engine...... I went with a High Pressure in my engine verses a High Volume....just curious as to why "NO on HV" ?? __________________ John What the Heck is that ?? CURRENT BUILDS: 62 BurbMaster Other Builds: My '63 C-10,LWB,CC,BBW '06 HD StrAight Axle Swap Father/Son '67 C-20, LQ9,4L80,Bagged,8-Lugger !!Good Friend Richard's Build AMERICAN CUSTOMS & CLASSICS (831) 630-1965 www.ACCHOLLISTER.com ACC on FACEBOOK "Rest in Peace, Mom & Dad ... I will see you again someday!"

04-20-2008, 04:13 AM	#15
billydonn Council of the Elders Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 212	Re: time to work on my engine...... Joe: If that question is for me, the engine broke while it was carburated and I replaced it with Gen I SBC engine. The tuned port EFI was a new idea, and added it a year after that. (I can always go back to my carb setup.) I'm not real interested in the newer EFI engines, although I'd never say never. It's partly the nostalgia of the Gen I engine and partly the cost/benefit ratio of the newer small block engines. __________________ 66 C-10 Stepside 350 Tuned Port Injection Tremec TKO-600 Truck Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/user/billydonn Truck Video: http://good-times.webshots.com/video...ost=good-times

04-20-2008, 04:37 AM	#18
billydonn Council of the Elders Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 212	Re: time to work on my engine...... Joe: no problem... my regrets for cluttering up Hewlett's post! __________________ 66 C-10 Stepside 350 Tuned Port Injection Tremec TKO-600 Truck Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/user/billydonn Truck Video: http://good-times.webshots.com/video...ost=good-times



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04-20-2008, 07:12 AM	#19
hewlett2002000 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cleveland, Tx Posts: 1,619	Re: time to work on my engine...... naw i dident get the donor truck. main reason being im still living at home and even though i have a huge shop i still get the same thing as you married guys get from your wives. my mother said.. "what do you need with another truck?? you have enough already. its a mess out there already with all that junk!! etc etc..... lol my only hope is to get rich, buy some land, build a huge shop and never get married!! lol what do ya think? my plans are still to rebuild my engine. thanks, John __________________ Respect: 1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. 2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem. 3. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation. When you fail to show consideration to others values you are showing disrespect.

04-20-2008, 07:45 AM	#20
joe231 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Palmer, Alaska Posts: 13,821	Re: time to work on my engine...... sounds like a plan....at the least get the truck done and all the toys you want before you get hitched __________________ *CHEVY ONLY*

04-20-2008, 01:27 PM	#21
MikeB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: North Texas Posts: 3,597	Re: time to work on my engine...... I would definitely find out what kind of rods and bolts are included in the base price kit. I would not use rebuilt GM rods in a 383, unless they were pink rods or powdered metal rods and TRULY rebuilt, not just visually checked and cleaned. When looking for a 383 rotating assembly many years ago, I stopped by a shop in Dallas that advertised in a few magazines. Over in a corner a guy had a box of old rods that he was cleaning with a wire wheel and a parts washer. From there they went to another guy who was hanging pistons on them. As far as I could tell, they didn't check them for roundness or trueness, and did not replace the bolts. And balancing? Who knows? I ending up buying a complete rotating assembly from StrokerMotor.com, and even worked part-time there from 2002-2004. Their entry level 355 and 383 kits cost $999, but all parts are new, it is very well balanced, and includes flexplate and damper. Check them out at http://www.strokermotor.com or 214.350.4979. __________________ Mike 1969 C10 LWB -- owned for 35 years. 350/TH350, 3.08 posi, 1st Gen Vintage Air, recent AAW wiring harness, 5-lug conversion, 1985 spindles and brakes. 1982 C10 SWB -- sold 1981 C10 Silverado LWB -- sold, but wish I still had it! 1969 C10 (not the current one) that I bought in the early 1980s. Paid $1200; sold for $1500 a few years later. Just a hint at the appreciation that was coming. Retired as a factory automation products salesman. Worked part-time over the years for an engine builder and a classic car repair shop. Member here for 24 years! This is the very first car/truck Internet forum I joined. I still used a dial-up modem back then! Last edited by MikeB; 04-20-2008 at 01:36 PM.

04-20-2008, 03:39 PM	#22
Billla Account Suspended Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Monroe, WA Posts: 3,814	Re: time to work on my engine...... The NAP kit comes with SCAT I-beam rods for $159...a steal Note that there's a balancing act (pun intended) here - if you go with a STOCK crank (one of NAPs regrinds), STOCK rods and hypereutectic pistons you're likely within the range where a balance is not required. If you go with aftermarket rods, which are lighter, you WILL need a balance. $250 for a balance and the economics take a little thinking before the right choice is clear.

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