383 build

[Sundrop]

I plan on building my 350 into a 383 later in the year what do I need to do to achieve 500HP goal

[manimal]

What happened to the 305?
SCAT crank & rods, SRP pistons 10-1,AFR heads, roller valve train,CAREFUL attention to details, GOOD machine work. I am not understanding the quest for such high HP? is this a racecar?
You could ALWAYS build a STRONG bottom end..(forged),good heads and nitrous. It's HP on tap.

[Sundrop]

Originally Posted by manimal

What happened to the 305?
SCAT crank & rods, SRP pistons 10-1,AFR heads, roller valve train,CAREFUL attention to details, GOOD machine work. I am not understanding the quest for such high HP? is this a racecar?
You could ALWAYS build a STRONG bottom end..(forged),good heads and nitrous. It's HP on tap.

well Ive always wanted a 383 and when I got my 350 last june is when my quest began so this one goes back to 05 06 plus its easy to get 500 with those motors I just to make sure i get the right parts I know what bore to go with crank but i just want the right parts plus I like fast n' loud and that would be fast n' loud and this one would be a truck i could drive on sunny sundays after a night of bashing on at the strip

[Gary V]

Take a look see here... http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html

[T Smith]

I'd get with the guy you said you knew in the other thread that has the 650 horse 388 with the edelbrock carb, if he can do that it sounds like he's the man to consult.

[Marv D]

EASY to build, but..... First question is what kind of fuel are you going to run. 500 naturally aspirated HP from a 4.030" bore 383 with a stock 23° head, on pump gas, is going to be borderline street friendly compression. Be cautious what you build here. I have been down the road of building a killer combination that sat in the driveway because I finally realized the $30 worth of C-12 fuel it cost to warm the motor and drive to the store for a $2 loaf of bread was pretty much foolishness.

But... here's one opinion and pump fuel, street friendly combination.

Here is 488 SuperFlo Dyno proven pump 91 octane HP from a 383:

GMPP 4bolt casting (these are only marginally better than a production casting, but I have 2 out there that have been in the low 500HP range for the better part of the last decade. )
QUALITY and ATTENTION TO DETAIL will make a big difference in resulting HP, everywhere you cut a corner, cuts power and or reliability. Remember that.

Make sure you machinist rough clearances the block for the 3.75" stroke, and hones to final size for the forged pistons with a torque plate (generally adds $100 - $125 to the boreing cost) Get the deck cut to 9.000", and squared to the crank centerline. Lots easier to make compression with the anti-detonation advantage of a zero decked motor.

Over and over and over again I've said,, HEADS ARE WHERE THE POWER IS MADE. Scrimp here and you jepordize results. You need a head that flows close to 300cfm, but more importantly one that maintains a decent port shape and volocity for the low RPM street driving. AFR is stellar in both departments for a street / lower HP race motor (as in < 600 n/a small block HP) motor.
A set of box stock AFR 210 Race Ready (I think they call them "eliminators now) will flow enough for a 500HP 383 spinning up into the 7K range easily. The AFR's are a NICE street piece, but I'm the kind of guy that can't leave 'good' alone. Besides, you will want them cut to 69-70cc to set compression. I had them angle milled to 69cc, intake face and bolt bosses corrected, (added a couple hundred $ but the small benifits are worth every penny in performance and reliability of gaskts)
You will need to replace the valve springs with the right spring for the cam, so have Tony build your set minus springs and reteiners / locks,,, (OR, They will put 'your' spring on if you get them to him for the build. (AFR offers a shelf stock Hydraulic roller spring.,, PASS on those, There a budget spring and you need a little over 400-425psi on the nose, their spring is about 40psi too soft for this cam)

Shaun (Super73) and I have a running 'discussion' on Hydraulic roller cams / valve train and their RPM limiting weights. He proves me wrong in a number of areas, so valve train is probably more of a overkill preferance to keep things light and reliable here. But it works for me so take this as ONE OPINION.

The AFR 210's use a 1.55" spring, and you want one that matches the cam, and has at least 425psi on the nose. We'll discuss that with the cam, but the rest of the valve train needs to be LIGHT, and RELIABLE. Any junk you interject here could be the piece that cost you the motor at 7000rpm.
I run Morel hydraulic roller lifters,, and ONLY Morel they can be a pain to hunt down with everyone claiming theirs are Morel, but they are the best of the best. Settle for none less.

Pushrods in a standard 5/16" chromoly will work at these lifts and spring pressures. Don't think a stock pushrod with pressed in ends is going to survive, Comp and Crower has a decent line of pushrods. You will need the RIGHT length for your valvetrain / combination. If you don't have a pushrod legth checking tool, find someone who does. You need one here. Pushrods are sold in 0.050" lengths + or - from stock length. Your pushrod checking fixture and micrometer to measure doesn't need to be any $500 tool. If you measure and calculate to the nearest 0.001" , you can still only order pushrods the nearest 0.050" standard length. You get the point.

Comp also has a very nice 1.55 titanium spring retainer and locks. Again, weight is a BIG concern IMO,,, I've seen a lot of things go wrong in the valve train (i.e. broken spring at 7000) and the Comp retainers and locks hold pieces in place. You get what you pay for here IMO.

When Crane shut down I paniced and bought a stash of Crane Gold Race rockers. For a stud rocker they were the lightest, most accurate, reliable and durable I found. I have heard Comp filled in the gap with a good stud rocker, and guys on the Bullet are talking YellaTerra and HarlandSharp as replacements. Not much I can offert there,, sorry still using up my 'stash' for a stud rocker motor. Crane is back in business and after the S&S ordeal,, I don't even know who owns the name now. Just be cautious and do your homework on what is a LIGHT, quality aluminum stud rocker (AFR's are 7/16" stud BTW)

Rotating assembly:

Work calls,, more to follow

[T Smith]

Originally Posted by Marv D

Get the deck cut to 9.000", and squared to the crank centerline. Lots easier to make compression with the anti-detonation advantage of a zero decked motor.

Can't stress this enough!

[Sundrop]

Originally Posted by T Smith

I'd get with the guy you said you knew in the other thread that has the 650 horse 388 with the edelbrock carb, if he can do that it sounds like he's the man to consult.

Ive tried so many times to get to tell me what he did all he says is bored it 60 over and that he put all NASCAR Official parts in it

[Sundrop]

Originally Posted by Marv D

EASY to build, but..... First question is what kind of fuel are you going to run. 500 naturally aspirated HP from a 4.030" bore 383 with a stock 23° head, on pump gas, is going to be borderline street friendly compression. Be cautious what you build here. I have been down the road of building a killer combination that sat in the driveway because I finally realized the $30 worth of C-12 fuel it cost to warm the motor and drive to the store for a $2 loaf of bread was pretty much foolishness.

But... here's one opinion and pump fuel, street friendly combination.

Here is 488 SuperFlo Dyno proven pump 91 octane HP from a 383:

GMPP 4bolt casting (these are only marginally better than a production casting, but I have 2 out there that have been in the low 500HP range for the better part of the last decade. )
QUALITY and ATTENTION TO DETAIL will make a big difference in resulting HP, everywhere you cut a corner, cuts power and or reliability. Remember that.

Make sure you machinist rough clearances the block for the 3.75" stroke, and hones to final size for the forged pistons with a torque plate (generally adds $100 - $125 to the boreing cost) Get the deck cut to 9.000", and squared to the crank centerline. Lots easier to make compression with the anti-detonation advantage of a zero decked motor.

Over and over and over again I've said,, HEADS ARE WHERE THE POWER IS MADE. Scrimp here and you jepordize results. You need a head that flows close to 300cfm, but more importantly one that maintains a decent port shape and volocity for the low RPM street driving. AFR is stellar in both departments for a street / lower HP race motor (as in < 600 n/a small block HP) motor.
A set of box stock AFR 210 Race Ready (I think they call them "eliminators now) will flow enough for a 500HP 383 spinning up into the 7K range easily. The AFR's are a NICE street piece, but I'm the kind of guy that can't leave 'good' alone. Besides, you will want them cut to 69-70cc to set compression. I had them angle milled to 69cc, intake face and bolt bosses corrected, (added a couple hundred $ but the small benifits are worth every penny in performance and reliability of gaskts)
You will need to replace the valve springs with the right spring for the cam, so have Tony build your set minus springs and reteiners / locks,,, (OR, They will put 'your' spring on if you get them to him for the build. (AFR offers a shelf stock Hydraulic roller spring.,, PASS on those, There a budget spring and you need a little over 400-425psi on the nose, their spring is about 40psi too soft for this cam)

Shaun (Super73) and I have a running 'discussion' on Hydraulic roller cams / valve train and their RPM limiting weights. He proves me wrong in a number of areas, so valve train is probably more of a overkill preferance to keep things light and reliable here. But it works for me so take this as ONE OPINION.

The AFR 210's use a 1.55" spring, and you want one that matches the cam, and has at least 425psi on the nose. We'll discuss that with the cam, but the rest of the valve train needs to be LIGHT, and RELIABLE. Any junk you interject here could be the piece that cost you the motor at 7000rpm.
I run Morel hydraulic roller lifters,, and ONLY Morel they can be a pain to hunt down with everyone claiming theirs are Morel, but they are the best of the best. Settle for none less.

Pushrods in a standard 5/16" chromoly will work at these lifts and spring pressures. Don't think a stock pushrod with pressed in ends is going to survive, Comp and Crower has a decent line of pushrods. You will need the RIGHT length for your valvetrain / combination. If you don't have a pushrod legth checking tool, find someone who does. You need one here. Pushrods are sold in 0.050" lengths + or - from stock length. Your pushrod checking fixture and micrometer to measure doesn't need to be any $500 tool. If you measure and calculate to the nearest 0.001" , you can still only order pushrods the nearest 0.050" standard length. You get the point.

Comp also has a very nice 1.55 titanium spring retainer and locks. Again, weight is a BIG concern IMO,,, I've seen a lot of things go wrong in the valve train (i.e. broken spring at 7000) and the Comp retainers and locks hold pieces in place. You get what you pay for here IMO.

When Crane shut down I paniced and bought a stash of Crane Gold Race rockers. For a stud rocker they were the lightest, most accurate, reliable and durable I found. I have heard Comp filled in the gap with a good stud rocker, and guys on the Bullet are talking YellaTerra and HarlandSharp as replacements. Not much I can offert there,, sorry still using up my 'stash' for a stud rocker motor. Crane is back in business and after the S&S ordeal,, I don't even know who owns the name now. Just be cautious and do your homework on what is a LIGHT, quality aluminum stud rocker (AFR's are 7/16" stud BTW)

Rotating assembly:

Work calls,, more to follow

Thanks for all the info

[69GMC910]

If it were me I'd just buy this...
Posted via Mobile Device


Mark at Vortec Pro knows what he's doing!
Posted via Mobile Device

[Sundrop]

Originally Posted by 69GMC910

If it were me I'd just buy this...
Posted via Mobile Device


Mark at Vortec Pro knows what he's doing!
Posted via Mobile Device

If i was to spend that much on a crate motor I would just go with the 572 BBC

[mongoose]

well you're gonna spend close to that for a reliable 500+ horse 383..

and a 572 costs a pretty penny more than that.

[Marv D]

Originally Posted by mongoose

well you're gonna spend close to that for a reliable 500+ horse 383..

and a 572 costs a pretty penny more than that.

Ditto.
Your not going to get honest, reliable, pump gas friendly 500HP for less than $6500 - $8000 (depending on what you have to start with) Those that offer it, demand a dyno sheet of THAT motor (not some old sheet from one they built 'like it' and dyno'd on some hand controled POS dyno once upon a time), DEMAND a dyno sheet from a SuperFlo 901 computer controlled dyno (or comprable) on YOUR motor or you get the proverbial 'about' 500HP.

$1800 heads
$1100 valve train
$600-$800 for block prep (quality machine work isn't cheap)
$2000 for forged crank, decent 6" rods, SRP forged pistons w/ balancing
$800+ for intake and carb
$400-($1000 for custom ) 1-3/4 - 1-7/8" headers


ooops we already passed $6k and we haven't gotten to gaskets, fuel system, a good pan to keep windage away from the rotating assembly, dyno tunning, converter..... it adds up EXTREMELY fast if you want to do it 'right' .

There is a lot of unbalanced crap Eagle crank / Scat rod w/ unknown bolts/ KB piston packages out there. It will work, but for how long if you intend to 'USE' this 500HP. With mallory metal as high s it is right now balancing of some of these packages will get you another $300 invested.

Sorry, not trying to be negative here, just REALISTIC.

[Marv D]

Originally Posted by Sundrop

Ive tried so many times to get to tell me what he did all he says is bored it 60 over and that he put all NASCAR Official parts in it

I would REALLY like to see the dyno sheet or weight and time slip for this... never saw any smallblock with a single AFB break 575HP.

If that was a stock GM casting at +.060,,, I don't care what kind of "nascar' internals he put in it.,,, it's like building a mansion on a sand bar. The walls at that overbore are going to look like a tube of spaghetti at the RPM and cylinder pressures it will take to make 650.

Not throwing the 'BS' flag up but I'd really like to see how long this thing survived making that power and/or how the HP # was derived.

[T Smith]

Originally Posted by Marv D

Ditto.
Your not going to get honest, reliable, pump gas friendly 500HP for less than $6500 - $8000 (depending on what you have to start with) Those that offer it, demand a dyno sheet of THAT motor (not some old sheet from one they built 'like it' and dyno'd on some hand controled POS dyno once upon a time), DEMAND a dyno sheet from a SuperFlo 901 computer controlled dyno (or comprable) on YOUR motor or you get the proverbial 'about' 500HP.

$1800 heads
$1100 valve train
$600-$800 for block prep (quality machine work isn't cheap)
$2000 for forged crank, decent 6" rods, SRP forged pistons w/ balancing
$800+ for intake and carb
$400-($1000 for custom ) 1-3/4 - 1-7/8" headers


ooops we already passed $6k and we haven't gotten to gaskets, fuel system, a good pan to keep windage away from the rotating assembly, dyno tunning, converter..... it adds up EXTREMELY fast if you want to do it 'right' .

There is a lot of unbalanced crap Eagle crank / Scat rod w/ unknown bolts/ KB piston packages out there. It will work, but for how long if you intend to 'USE' this 500HP. With mallory metal as high s it is right now balancing of some of these packages will get you another $300 invested.

Sorry, not trying to be negative here, just REALISTIC.

Truth, and some of these numbers are pretty darn low...

[Sundrop]

Originally Posted by Marv D

I would REALLY like to see the dyno sheet or weight and time slip for this... never saw any smallblock with a single AFB break 575HP.

If that was a stock GM casting at +.060,,, I don't care what kind of "nascar' internals he put in it.,,, it's like building a mansion on a sand bar. The walls at that overbore are going to look like a tube of spaghetti at the RPM and cylinder pressures it will take to make 650.

Not throwing the 'BS' flag up but I'd really like to see how long this thing survived making that power and/or how the HP # was derived.

The only thing that wouldnt hold up is the tranny in it he has had 10+ trannys in it next time I see him Ill get him to show me the dyno sheet quater mile times post here... it aint no bulll Ive seen like 3 years ago and that motor was built in 1990-91 still runs like a champ except the tranny snouts breaking lol

[ripdog28]

Id really like to see a 388 push 650hp on pump gas with an edel carb. Race gas and 7500rpm, Id understand.

That 406 by Vortechpro is a deal, you will not build one with that power for less, unless you have people donate those high $$ parts.

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by Sundrop

Ive tried so many times to get to tell me what he did all he says is bored it 60 over and that he put all NASCAR Official parts in it

Being bored .060 over needs to be done by a machinist that knows what they are doing. Especially for a high HP/TQ build. It's scetchy for a 350 to be bored.060 overe in a stocker.

Just remember... just cuz someone tells you there's "no foolin' Official NASCAR parts in it"... don't mean it's the cats ass. 500 ponies out of a 383 is gonna take good work by a good machinist.

Gary

[Sundrop]

Originally Posted by GASoline71

Being bored .060 over needs to be done by a machinist that knows what they are doing. Especially for a high HP/TQ build. It's scetchy for a 350 to be bored.060 overe in a stocker.

Just remember... just cuz someone tells you there's "no foolin' Official NASCAR parts in it"... don't mean it's the cats ass. 500 ponies out of a 383 is gonna take good work by a good machinist.

Gary

I dont believe its all NASCAR internals but Ive seen it run and the dyno sheet I mean it aint no bull on the HP...Cause hell I can get a starter thats "Offical NASCAR" lol bought many parts that say it on the box lol

[71Dragtruck]

Originally Posted by Marv D

I would REALLY like to see the dyno sheet or weight and time slip for this... never saw any smallblock with a single AFB break 575HP.

Not throwing the 'BS' flag up but I'd really like to see how long this thing survived making that power and/or how the HP # was derived.

I will
Posted via Mobile Device