8.1L install into 1978 K10…DONE

[DirtyLarry]

Looks impressive. Glad you are happy with the powertrain you chose. If you ever make this far west we’ll have to have a tow test and see how they compare in the real world.

Somewhere I missed your engine swap thread??

[K20chevy]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

Looks impressive. Glad you are happy with the powertrain you chose. If you ever make this far west we’ll have to have a tow test and see how they compare in the real world.

Somewhere I missed your engine swap thread??

Hi Larry,

Thanks. I like they way it drives and the power it has.

Someday I might make it out there. Then we can sure do a tow test or if I´d be there, go wheeling somewhere nice.

You didn´t miss any thread, I haven´t started on on the build. I never thought anybody would be interested, so I just kept it to myself... but if there is interest, I can put one together. I documented everything with pictures anyways.

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by K20chevy

Hi Larry,

Thanks. I like they way it drives and the power it has.

Someday I might make it out there. Then we can sure do a tow test or if I´d be there, go wheeling somewhere nice.

You didn´t miss any thread, I haven´t started on on the build. I never thought anybody would be interested, so I just kept it to myself... but if there is interest, I can put one together. I documented everything with pictures anyways.

Oh, yeah….lots of cool places to go wheeling, fishing and camping close by here. If you ever make it out, let me know.

You should put together a thread. We all love pictures and that is a really cool combo you have that hasn’t been very well documented. 5.3L and 6.0L / 4L*0E swaps are dime a dozen. A 6.2L with a ZF 6 speed is a unique marriage we haven’t seen before.

[K20chevy]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

Oh, yeah….lots of cool places to go wheeling, fishing and camping close by here. If you ever make it out, let me know.

You should put together a thread. We all love pictures and that is a really cool combo you have that hasn’t been very well documented. 5.3L and 6.0L / 4L*0E swaps are dime a dozen. A 6.2L with a ZF 6 speed is a unique marriage we haven’t seen before.

Hey Larry, I started the build thread. It is linked in my signature. Feel free to check it out.

I´ll let you know if/when I get a chance to make it to Colorado someday. I´d love to go wheeling there!

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by K20chevy

Hey Larry, I started the build thread. It is linked in my signature. Feel free to check it out.

I´ll let you know if/when I get a chance to make it to Colorado someday. I´d love to go wheeling there!

Cool! Sweet build threads are always fun and educational to read. I would love to see that front bumper in real life. Such a cool piece!

[nekkidhillbilly]

Originally Posted by meatwagon83

i find this interesting, i wonder if i could get better mileage out of one of these than my 454? looks like an easy swap with minimum headaches

at the least no worse and gobs more power

[nekkidhillbilly]

Originally Posted by RatRod68

Wow. A lot cheaper than the LS swap. Granted, I moved my tank from behind the cab to under the bed, and that accounted for a pretty good chunk, but still. The harness and PCM program was 1600.00 alone for the LS/4L60E. I think the 73-91 series trucks can use their stock tank, and I am sure the 67-72's can as well, but i'm not sure

Wow, that is crazy to hear about the 6L. I will say that it takes a little bit to get moving, but once that thing is on the interstate, look out! Although I have heard that if you stay around 55-70 range, its always downshifting and upshifting when towing. Gives me an excuse to the tell the ol lady we have to go faster

That's a really cool sticker!

fyi you could have used a stock harness and got a tune for under 400 bucks. its a little harder yes cause of the extra stuff you will eliminate but at 1200 bucks of saving its worth it. a cam swap for towing cam is the best thing you can do for a 6.0.

[85supersierra]

I have ordered two different fuel pressure reg for my 8.1 from summit. One was a standard motors and the other was a delphi. Neither one was adjustable, the delphi looked adjustable in the pic but when i got it it wasnt. What kind do you use. I have installed a custom fuel cell and an electric holley fuel pump and would like to be able to dial in the perfect psi.

[Anchorism]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

Cool! Sweet build threads are always fun and educational to read. I would love to see that front bumper in real life. Such a cool piece!

Hey larry, sorry to be so off-topic but i had some questions for you and noticed i couldnt PM you.... I was wondering if you would mind sending me a message or something?

[Chevy3+3]

Slick build!

[Chevy3+3]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

No, no build thread on the 8.1L swap. The install was simple engine R&R, as the 8.1L is a direct bolt in…..no drama like an LS engine. I ran it for the first year on a MEFI-4 GM Performance Parts RamJet/Marine ECM then changed it to a stock Silverado P59 ECM later. Don't ever bother with an MEFI ECM...they suck! That story does have a thread here.

Here is a great thread on an 8.1L swap into a 1ton 2wd dually by another member.

So basically you could have pulled an 8.1 and and the factory ECM from a salvage Silverado and end up having the same thing you have? And then just had a custom stand alone harness for the engine?

I also find it interesting how the Marine set up was supposed to yield more HP but you said after you changed back to the factory ECM you said it was more powerful?

And you mentioned something about running a manual throttle cable instead of the wired throttle unit? I hope I said that correctly. Is the manual version something that only the marine applications get? If so can you change this on a Silverado 8.1?

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by Anchorism

Hey larry, sorry to be so off-topic but i had some questions for you and noticed i couldnt PM you.... I was wondering if you would mind sending me a message or something?

PM sent

Originally Posted by Chevy3+3

So basically you could have pulled an 8.1 and the factory ECM from a salvage Silverado and end up having the same thing you have? And then just had a custom stand-alone harness for the engine?

Pretty much, outside of the accessory brackets. Pickup truck accessory brackets will put the A/C compressor in a bad spot between the engine and frame on the RH side, which will require the frame to be cut. By using G-van/Medium duty truck/ Workhorse brackets will move the alternator to the passenger’s side and A/C compressor up high on the driver’s side like just like the 1996-2000 L29 7.4L.

Originally Posted by Chevy3+3

I also find it interesting how the Marine set up was supposed to yield more HP but you said after you changed back to the factory ECM you said it was more powerful?

Good catch. Yes, Marine applications do produce more power but it is not the ECM model/type alone that creates the higher horse power. Some marine engines do have larger cams, injectors etc. but for the most part the main differences are the calibrations (or tune) inside the ECM that makes the big power differences when comparing a stock L18 8.1L in a truck vs. a stock L18 8.1L in a boat. Marine is not constrained to the same emissions regulations as production motor vehicles such as a Silverado with an 8.1L, therefore marine can be tuned to produce more power with less concern of emissions discharge.

The marine application 8.1L engines also ran a Delphi MEFI-4 ECM just like the RamJet 350 and 502 engines. The Marine/Ramjet MEFI ECM’s run a somewhat crude speed density fuel calculation and batch fire the injectors which is basically how the old OBD1 TBI and TPI engines ran. The speed density fuel calculations are all pre-determined and every event and event combination must be preprogrammed into the ECM to control spark and fuel delivery based on sensor inputs at a given temp, speed, load, altitude, etc. This engine management system is decent and the ECM is a nice piece but the operating system is more crude than 1996 and later motor vehicles but it is time consuming and tedious to program. 1996 and later production vehicles run OBD2 with a more refined mass air flow system and sequential fuel injection where the ECM calculates the air/fuel ratio and ignition timing in real time based on inputs from the engine sensors. The key is real time, instead of predetermined calculations as with speed density calculations.

Back to your question as to why the same 8.1L in a Marine application would produce more power than a pickup truck but yet in my case, I gained power by removing the Marine ECM and installing a production vehicle ECM. That answer is simple. I used a marine calibration file in the MEFI-4 ECM. The problem with marine applications is the fact they are basically calibrated for ramp up from idle to wide open throttle unlike a truck with a manual trans where engine load is constantly changing with various RPM shifts, engine load, much different engine operating temperatures than a boat and every changing altitudes (or at least around here anyway). Think about it, a boats duty cycle is very simple….either cruising or wide open throttle. It is very simple to tune an ECM for a simple duty cycle like that. I had the software to tweak the marine calibration in an effort to make it work in a car but I really had no idea what I was doing. I am far from a “tuner” nerd to figure out how to fine tune the MEFI-4 to work in my truck. After a long period of trying to tweak a marine 8.1L cal file work, I moved to a 6.0L bin file my tuning tutor emailed me from an El Camino he tuned for someone. We add a lot more fuel and spark to that cal file but it never really ran to its fullest potential. After a year of fiddling and farting around with trying to program the MEFI-4 ECM myself I got frustrated and yanked it off and installed a production vehicle P59 ECM (Just like that generation of Silverado was using) running MAF and OBD2. A tune for that ECM to run an 8.1L was readily available where I didn’t have to do any programming of my own. Just plug and play. Howell did a great job with tuning my ECM. OBDII is much easier for tuners to program anyway as the MAF making real-time adjustments makes it very forgiving.

That said, had I drove the truck to Phoenix to Arizona Speed and Marine’s shop where they have a lot of experience with tuning MEFI-4 ECM’s and a dyno to properly create the tune in real time while running the truck through its paces, the MEFI-4 ECM could have been just fine and perhaps even produced more power than it does now running a P59 production vehicle ECM. So with that, it is not so much the ECM, it is the tune inside the ECM and how easily that ECM is to tune is where the power difference come in on two identical engines. MEFI-4 is more difficult to tune whereas there is no shortage of people that can tune a P59 OBD2 ECM all day long. The nice thing about MEFI-4 though was the fact the ECM is very small and the harness was extremely simple with a fraction of the wiring compared to OBDII.

Originally Posted by Chevy3+3

And you mentioned something about running a manual throttle cable instead of the wired throttle unit? I hope I said that correctly. Is the manual version something that only the marine applications get? If so can you change this on a Silverado 8.1?

That is right, I am running a mechanical throttle body. As mentioned elsewhere I am running a 1996-2000 L29 7.4L mechanical throttle body. It is a direct bolt on for an 8.1L. The ECM also has to be tuned for a mechanical throttle body or there will be other driveability issues. Marine also used mechanical throttle bodies but they are entirely different and would not easily work on a vehicle engine running a gas pedal. They don’t have springs to return the throttle plate closed and the cable connections to the linkage are very weird. I suppose you could convert a Silverado with drive-by-wire to a mechanical cable throttle body but the ECM would need to be reprogrammed and a new method to work cruise control would need to be figured out.

If it is any help, I created THIS thread to help people when researching 8.1L swaps. I was getting bombarded with several PM's a week from people looking for the "recipe" to install an 8.1L without doing an ounce of their own research so I created something that had tons of info to get people going. That is the reason why I have the PM function turned off. I don't mind helping people and I have a lot of fun doing so, but I am tired of some people just wanting to be told the step by step process on how to do a 8.1L or NV4500 swap and handed over a complete parts list.

[nekkidhillbilly]

01-02 had manual throttle bodies too fyi. 03 was the first drive by wire unless they made the 8.1 different than the rest for some odd reason.

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by nekkidhillbilly

01-02 had manual throttle bodies too fyi. 03 was the first drive by wire unless they made the 8.1 different than the rest for some odd reason.

Yes, they are different. All 8.1L’s had electronic throttle, with the exception of some special high HP Mercruiser Marine engines that ran on a cable. The Gen III small block engines got electronic throttle around 2003 across the board.

[rs74]

Some good info here. I am going to have to go back and read this again. I am picking up an 84 SRW K30 and am already thinking either 8.1 or Cummins. I thought about the 8.1 and a SM465 but it sounds like the NV4500 is a better fit and run the 205 transfercase. I probably need to see if what other threads you have on this.

I would like to do the cummins but not wanting to have to lift the truck to make it work. I am wanting to keep it stock or at most a 2.5" lift. So the 8.1 is starting to sound more of a choice between the two.

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by rs74

Some good info here. I am going to have to go back and read this again. I am picking up an 84 SRW K30 and am already thinking either 8.1 or Cummins. I thought about the 8.1 and a SM465 but it sounds like the NV4500 is a better fit and run the 205 transfercase. I probably need to see if what other threads you have on this.

I would like to do the cummins but not wanting to have to lift the truck to make it work. I am wanting to keep it stock or at most a 2.5" lift. So the 8.1 is starting to sound more of a choice between the two.

Cummins are great swaps for farm boys with a welder and a few feet of fuel line. LS and 8.1L swaps for those enthusiasts that know how to read and write. Haha, just kidding ….I just wanted to razz a few buddies that have done Cummins swaps.

If you want to read up on 8.1L’s check out my 8.1L dedicated thread on CK5.

I also just wrapped up a 8.1L swap into my ’89 Suburban that is better documented than when I did the K10 back in 2008.

Cummins would be great but they are heavy and expensive but they deliver great fuel economy. 8.1L is a complete bolt in affair and no heavier than any older BBC. The HP and torque are on par if not greater than an old 12V. If I had a Cummins in hand I would find a project to do a swap in a heartbeat but I don’t….8.1L’s I had a few around.

If that is not enough reading material for you there is a 8.1L dedicated group on Facebook for swappers called the "8.1L Info Swap Classifieds" where there are guys swapping them into everything from old muscle cars to Mexican Dodge Ram Chargers. All kinds of kinds there...........

[rs74]

Thanks! I read halfway through your nv4500 swap last night. I was thinking of using the sm465 that is in it but the overdrive sounds better. I still have a lot of info to read and research on doing this.

[rs74]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

If that is not enough reading material for you there is a 8.1L dedicated group on Facebook for swappers called the "8.1L Info Swap Classifieds" where there are guys swapping them into everything from old muscle cars to Mexican Dodge Ram Chargers. All kinds of kinds there...........

They must have the page set to secret or something because I can't find it in the search.

[MalibuSSwagon]

I've got a 50k mile 8.1L I'm saving for a towrig build when the opportunity (cashflow) presents itself.

[ol-blacky]

Larry or others
Do you have a dimension of the 8100 from the motor mount to the front of the fan or waterpump or pulleys or other limiting factor (air intake elbow)to the front?

I have a 70 chevy k20 sbc sm465/205 that is getting some drive line changes but no budget for 8100 yet... my search revealed that the motor mounts need to be moved forward "a lil bit" or "a couple inches" to clear the fire wall and maybe a "body lift and or massaging" to make it fit. I want to limit the massaging hoping for it to look as good as yours when done.So I would like to move my current engine and drive line forward while adding overdrive to prep for an 8100 when the budget allows.

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by ol-blacky

Larry or others
Do you have a dimension of the 8100 from the motor mount to the front of the fan or waterpump or pulleys or other limiting factor (air intake elbow)to the front?

I have a 70 chevy k20 sbc sm465/205 that is getting some drive line changes but no budget for 8100 yet... my search revealed that the motor mounts need to be moved forward "a lil bit" or "a couple inches" to clear the fire wall and maybe a "body lift and or massaging" to make it fit. I want to limit the massaging hoping for it to look as good as yours when done.So I would like to move my current engine and drive line forward while adding overdrive to prep for an 8100 when the budget allows.

No, but the 8.1L foot print isn't much different than any other BBC with a long neck waterpump.

[Zoomad75]

Larry's 8.1's have more room between the firewall and the drivers side head than my swapped in 5.3 has in mine that he dropped in for me. You'll have no problem dropping in a 8.1 when the time comes with stock mounts.