290 HP 350 anyone used before?

[rapidride3]

Hey Mike B. I have that same cam but only on a 112 center. I'm looking for as much power I can get while possibly gaining mileage. I have a nice 406 to go in at a later time but for now the 350 with the Jones cam has my interest on how it will perform in my c-10 during street duty.

[MikeB]

Something else about the Jones cams: Duration and lift are dead nuts on, unlike some of the big guys' cams that are "close".

[Slammed84]

I put a Goodwrench engine in my original 84' back in the day. It cost me around $2000 but that was with a chevy dealer installing it as well.

I was only 16 at the time and had no wrench skills nor the tools to pull it off myself.

Years later ( no problems at all ) I decided I needed more power and set out to build it into a vortec headed motor with a mild cam and roller rockers. I also ran a Holley 670 carb. I should've got a slight stall converter because with my 3.08 gears it was kinda sluggish but would scream from 3000rpm up.

However we did find, when we pulled it apart, that the main and piston bearings where all different sizes. Like way off.

These are mass produced engines made in Mexico. They are by no means a bad engine but IMO they could've put a little more effort into the machining process instead of just slapping different size bearings in there to fill in the gaps...

Hell the engine had virtually no wear on it and I still had to turn the crank and resize the rods a bit just to put a standard size bearing set in it.

[K5owner]

This is true as I can attest to it. These engines are assembled in Mexico from new cores but who is pouring the cores and doing the machining I don't know. However, it doesn't seem to effect function though as everyone I have talked to who has had one said that they ran great and were very durable. I know when my 84 K5's 350 gives up the ghost I probably will replace it with a good wrench replacement. Solid 4 bolt main engines with good value.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by K5owner

This is true as I can attest to it. These engines are assembled in Mexico from new cores but who is pouring the cores and doing the machining I don't know. However, it doesn't seem to effect function though as everyone I have talked to who has had one said that they ran great and were very durable. I know when my 84 K5's 350 gives up the ghost I probably will replace it with a good wrench replacement. Solid 4 bolt main engines with good value.

I used to do some part time work for an engine builder who specialized in 383s. For our basic engine, he started with 86-up (1-piece main seal) 350 short blocks from junkyards, after making sure they were standard bore. Most were "Hecho en Mexico".

Initially, I was the guy who tore them down and washed them (in a high-pressure, high-temperature washer). I eventually moved on to decking and boring, and then to assembly. (The boss did all the power honing.)

In my experience the Mexican blocks themselves were VERY good quality. Heck, on many of them the black paint was still perfect, almost like it was epoxy. Core shift was minimal compared to pre-86 blocks. We almost never had to line bore one, and the decks were a lot more square than the typical pre-86 blocks. I had several that cleaned up at around .005" overbore, but we usually took them out to .030".

I actually built a 355 for myself using one of the junkyard short blocks. The mains bore was perfect, and the std/std crank had literally zero wear. All we had to do was polish the journals and slightly resize 2 or 3 of the powdered metal rods, and they were good to go.

I guess my point here is Mexican made doesn't necessarily mean poorly made, but I don't doubt the stories about crank journals being different sizes. If you're building an engine from scratch, you could do a lot worse than a Mexican block, at least that's true of the 1-piece main seal versions.

[Desert1957]

Originally Posted by K5owner

This is true as I can attest to it. These engines are assembled in Mexico from new cores but who is pouring the cores and doing the machining I don't know. However, it doesn't seem to effect function though as everyone I have talked to who has had one said that they ran great and were very durable. I know when my 84 K5's 350 gives up the ghost I probably will replace it with a good wrench replacement. Solid 4 bolt main engines with good value.

They are NOT "Mexican" engines, that engine program is from 20+ years ago.

Please read up on GM replacement engines before posting wrong information.

Here it is right from GM...

The 350/290 HP is our most popular and economical performance crate engine and the new Deluxe package enhances it with the finishing touches enthusiasts want,” said Dr. Jamie Meyer, product marketing manager for GM Performance Parts. “We’ve put it all together in a convenient crate engine that saves time and money. And keep in mind, for less than $3,000, you’re getting a brand-new, factory-engineered performance engine – not a rebuilt core.”

Indeed, the 350/290 HP Deluxe uses all-new parts, from the strong, four-bolt-mains cylinder block to the performance cylinder heads. It is also filled with premium parts, including a smooth hydraulic camshaft and durable aluminum pistons that deliver an 8.5:1 compression ratio for easy pump gas compatibility.

Desert

[K5owner]

Originally Posted by Desert1957

They are NOT "Mexican" engines, that engine program is from 20+ years ago.

Please read up on GM replacement engines before posting wrong information.

Here it is right from GM...

The 350/290 HP is our most popular and economical performance crate engine and the new Deluxe package enhances it with the finishing touches enthusiasts want,” said Dr. Jamie Meyer, product marketing manager for GM Performance Parts. “We’ve put it all together in a convenient crate engine that saves time and money. And keep in mind, for less than $3,000, you’re getting a brand-new, factory-engineered performance engine – not a rebuilt core.”

Indeed, the 350/290 HP Deluxe uses all-new parts, from the strong, four-bolt-mains cylinder block to the performance cylinder heads. It is also filled with premium parts, including a smooth hydraulic camshaft and durable aluminum pistons that deliver an 8.5:1 compression ratio for easy pump gas compatibility.

Desert

Really? hmmm? I guess when I received my 260HP version in 2010 from JEGS with the large lettering MEXICO casted right into the block I presumed they were still made there. Also if you read carefully Dr. Meyers description he clearly states "for less than $3,000, you’re getting a brand-new, factory-engineered performance engine" Factory engineered doesn't mean it was made in an American factory nor does it mean it was assembled in one. Products are designed in one country all the time and assembled in another or casted, poured, and partially assembled in another country with final assembly done here. Usually just enough done in the USA to legally say "Made in America" Heck I have a safe full of firearms and a shed full of lawn and garden tools to prove that. Sorry if the former legal analyst in me reads too much between the lines. BTW I have asked GM several times via email and phone call the same question and got pretty much the same canned response as you quoted. I am not trying to start a urination match with you I am just saying I know for a fact at the very minimum my engine was at least casted in Mexico. Not that it matters as I stated earlier they are still excellent engines and a great value no matter who is assembling them.

[Slammed84]

Originally Posted by Desert1957

They are NOT "Mexican" engines, that engine program is from 20+ years ago.

Please read up on GM replacement engines before posting wrong information.

Here it is right from GM...

The 350/290 HP is our most popular and economical performance crate engine and the new Deluxe package enhances it with the finishing touches enthusiasts want,” said Dr. Jamie Meyer, product marketing manager for GM Performance Parts. “We’ve put it all together in a convenient crate engine that saves time and money. And keep in mind, for less than $3,000, you’re getting a brand-new, factory-engineered performance engine – not a rebuilt core.”

Indeed, the 350/290 HP Deluxe uses all-new parts, from the strong, four-bolt-mains cylinder block to the performance cylinder heads. It is also filled with premium parts, including a smooth hydraulic camshaft and durable aluminum pistons that deliver an 8.5:1 compression ratio for easy pump gas compatibility.

Desert

Where does Dr. Jamie Meyer say anything about exactly where they are made?

You shouldn't hop on a thread and start bashin people for posting wrong information when YOU are the one posting information that is vague to say the least. Your "quote" you posted is exactly what any salesman would say if he wants you to buy a $2999 crate engine that cost them way less to build.

I nor K5 Owner were in anyway saying that the 290/260 HP Goodwrench engines, or whatever they call them now, are crappy crate engines.

But From my personal experience with the one I built, the mains and rod journals on the crank were out of whack. I had no choice but to have them turned because I don't have access to boxes and boxes of different size bearings. You have to order the size you need and make fine adjustments if needed, but material can certainly not be added.

I would definitely build an engine before buying one, but alot of people don't have experience and want a nice turnkey engine and this is exactly who they are selling them to.

One last thing, I don't know exactly what " Hencho In Mexico " on the block means but I am assuming it has something to do with Mexico, possibly that it was " Henchoed" there?

VIVA LA MEXICO !!!!!!!!!

[K5owner]

Just a little digging reveals these.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=473666

Whole article here: http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te..._engine_build/

Post number three explains a lot http://www.twoguysgarage.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=8281

Discussed endlessly on other forums as well.
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...php?tid/91921/

As far as I can tell from actual users, owners and installers everyone is pretty universally happy with these engines as is GM because they offer a heck of a warranty on them. So unless you are a die hard 'merica' only type of individual and can manufacture, grow, fabricate, distribute every single piece of clothing, food and piece of equipment you buy or use the chances of running into stuff that comes from another country is VERY high. It is just the way of the world now.

[Desert1957]

Originally Posted by K5owner

Really? hmmm? I guess when I received my 260HP version in 2010 from JEGS with the large lettering MEXICO casted right into the block I presumed they were still made there. Also if you read carefully Dr. Meyers description he clearly states "for less than $3,000, you’re getting a brand-new, factory-engineered performance engine" Factory engineered doesn't mean it was made in an American factory nor does it mean it was assembled in one. Products are designed in one country all the time and assembled in another or casted, poured, and partially assembled in another country with final assembly done here. Usually just enough done in the USA to legally say "Made in America" Heck I have a safe full of firearms and a shed full of lawn and garden tools to prove that. Sorry if the former legal analyst in me reads too much between the lines. BTW I have asked GM several times via email and phone call the same question and got pretty much the same canned response as you quoted. I am not trying to start a urination match with you I am just saying I know for a fact at the very minimum my engine was at least casted in Mexico. Not that it matters as I stated earlier they are still excellent engines and a great value no matter who is assembling them.

I'm truly sorry for pissing you guys off.

Maybe the 260hp is different then the 290 which is what I'm talking about.

Do you need me to post pictures of my engines, no where on the blocks is there any reference to Mexico.

Can you build a better small block? sure you can , but you need almost free access to machine work,parts below cost,and a real knowledge of engine assembly which most here don't have.

I'm still not sure what the controversy is here, I was just stating do not confuse theses newer engines with the old POS GM "Target 350" which was entirely Mexican.

I had about a 50% failure rate out of all the ones I installed.

Desert

[K5owner]

No pissing off at all. This is just a lively debate. An interesting one at that!! From my further research there is a clear difference between the Targetmaster engines of the early 80's and the current late 90's to current GM "goodwrench" engines which as you know are good engines. I think this is a case where like what springfield armory does. They forge, machine and partially assemble their 1911's in Brazil and final 'assemble' and do minor machining process here in the USA. It is enough for them to call in made in the USA according to the Fair Trade agreement. Probably the case here with these engine but GM will never tell you that especially with their current spotlight on al the recalls of late. They want absolutely no more bad press.

[nekkidhillbilly]

if im spending 3k im getting a 4.8 or 5.3 just saying.

[K5owner]

Originally Posted by nekkidhillbilly

if im spending 3k im getting a 4.8 or 5.3 just saying.

If for 3K you plan on just using your old trans and just using a modded flexplate and spacer, doing your own driveshaft modifications in terms of making it shorter or longer depending on the app, fabbing your own motor mounts, using a 99-02 LS engine(no drive by wire), which allows you to use your old pedal assembly, doing your own harness cutting, buying a 80-100K used engine, fabricating your own exhaust setup, making your own fuel sytem upgrades in terms of pump, lines and fittings and knowing how to do your own PCM tuning then yup you can get it done. If not then you are going to need a few grand more to get it done. Sure you can carb a LS, it has been done many times before but you really lose what I think is the main feature the LS brings to the table in terms of reliability and driveability by ditching the fuel injection. Unless you are a fabricator, and have tuning knowledge and a complete donor vehicle at your disposal you are really are at the mercy of the aftermarket in terms of a successful LS swap and that drives the cost up.

[gramps77]

Originally Posted by K5owner

If for 3K you plan on just using your old trans and just using a modded flexplate and spacer, doing your own driveshaft modifications in terms of making it shorter or longer depending on the app, fabbing your own motor mounts, using a 99-02 LS engine(no drive by wire), which allows you to use your old pedal assembly, doing your own harness cutting, buying a 80-100K used engine, fabricating your own exhaust setup, making your own fuel sytem upgrades in terms of pump, lines and fittings and knowing how to do your own PCM tuning then yup you can get it done. If not then you are going to need a few grand more to get it done. Sure you can carb a LS, it has been done many times before but you really lose what I think is the main feature the LS brings to the table in terms of reliability and driveability by ditching the fuel injection. Unless you are a fabricator, and have tuning knowledge and a complete donor vehicle at your disposal you are really are at the mercy of the aftermarket in terms of a successful LS swap and that drives the cost up.

more misinformation. "thousands more"? Not really the case anymore. Especially picking up engines and transmissions for $1-1200 anymore.

[K5owner]

First where was the last misinformation, secondly once you factor in driveshaft, motor mounts, exhaust, harness modification, fuse block, PCM tuning(NOT JUST A DATA LOG) ,the intake, flywheel spacer, cluster modification, fuel tank, fuel pump and return or returnless system and misc expenses you are into your swap about another 2 grand all said and done. That is a properly running, emissions passing/safety certification (depending on state) LS conversion. Not to mention the cost goes up if you decides you want to upgrade any part of the engine or exhaust or if you are doing the conversion on a 4x4. Some of this obviously depends on how much you get the initial engine and trans for but I am into three of these conversions now and can speak from experience. How many conversions have you done gramps77?

My first was a 4.8 on a 73 fj40. That was a hard learning curve. Much more involved then we though going into it and turned out nice when done but was a steep learning curve.
Our second (my partner and best friend) was a 71 C10 swb that we flipped for a quick buck before it was completed to finish our 72 (frankensteinish) K10 with a LQ4 6.0L. My 5.3 I have sitting on my stand is reserved for my 84 K5 that when the original 350 gives up the ghost. So technically I am on my forth conversion and people think they are cheaper then they really are especially if they don't have a complete engine, trans, harness and fuse box. All of that adds up and slows the process WAY down. At least it did with us. Can it be done for under 5K? Sure but you must not get the mod bug and be extremely thrifty and crafty in what you start with and how far you want to take it. Obviously starting with a vehicle that is already FI is a plus and something that can make life a little easier both on the fuel and speedo side of things depending what you go with.

[K5owner]

This is the standard retail around here for a KNOWN and guaranteed mileage/running engine. What I mean by that is the FJ I dropped the 4.8 in had a spun bearing and some other issues not seen by casual inspection. I paid $1000 for it and the trans and everything then once well into the project we found the engine had issues. So the 1000-1500 dollar LS engines come with some caveats.
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/ptd/4349201665.html

Really good deal if it is what it claims to be.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv...411379590.html

Typical price around here
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/4322510934.html

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Desert1957

They are NOT "Mexican" engines, that engine program is from 20+ years ago.

Most of the blocks I worked on has "Hecho en Mexico" cast right into them.

But maybe that translates into "Made in Detroit"

[Slammed84]

Originally Posted by Desert1957

I'm truly sorry for pissing you guys off.

Maybe the 260hp is different then the 290 which is what I'm talking about.

Do you need me to post pictures of my engines, no where on the blocks is there any reference to Mexico.


Desert

No ones pissed Desert, but i still have to disagree.

I had the 260HP version and it indeed was a mexican block.
Said "Mexico" on the rear of the block

I don't see why they would build these engines in two different places based on the HP ratings.

I believe the only difference is the cam specs. And the deluxe is just the extra parts they throw on it, intake, chrome covers, etc...

[gramps77]

No pissing off here. I just know that you can do a decent swap for 4-5K and thats to include swapping in the newer transmission as well.
Plenty of swaps concerning Chevy II's/Novas which CANT be that much more different than these trucks.

Bottom line, if youre already fine with spending the 3K on an engine, Id be inclined to go ahead and get the LS swap going. You cant argue the efficiency of the newer technology or even the power output.
LM7s are all over the place and its simply a matter of having the money to purchase at the right time.
I do however still have the 260hp version 350 in my pickup I inherited simply because it doesnt leak, runs on garbage gas, and hasnt caused any issues.
Now that I mention it, it probably will and I will then LS swap

[K5owner]

That is exactly what I said in post 38 when the $3000 figure was mentioned. I said it would take " If not then you are going to need a few grand more to get it done." $4500-$5500 is where most builds fall into depending on what is available in your area and how creative you are. I will say this about the Goodwrench engines, If you put on a powerjection or FAST kit on these 260 HP engine it makes them a whole different animal and uses all your old accessories, mounts, trans, etc. You literally install like bolting on a new carb and running a small harness. It makes for a fun, good running engine with the benefit of EFI without the cost of an LS swap.

[JPsChevy]

Just to clear the air here and take a little away from this huge debate that has started and kind of went away from original subject.

I ordered the 290HP Crate, i never even looked at the 260.

I am capable of building an engine for my pickup, Summer is Just around the corner and I am time limited for the reason that I am a technician at a John Deere dealer and spring planting means long hours and weekends.

Hope everyone is merely discussing this and not truly pissed off, I just wanted to know that people liked the 290, mine will be here monday.

[nekkidhillbilly]

Originally Posted by K5owner

If for 3K you plan on just using your old trans and just using a modded flexplate and spacer, doing your own driveshaft modifications in terms of making it shorter or longer depending on the app, fabbing your own motor mounts, using a 99-02 LS engine(no drive by wire), which allows you to use your old pedal assembly, doing your own harness cutting, buying a 80-100K used engine, fabricating your own exhaust setup, making your own fuel sytem upgrades in terms of pump, lines and fittings and knowing how to do your own PCM tuning then yup you can get it done. If not then you are going to need a few grand more to get it done. Sure you can carb a LS, it has been done many times before but you really lose what I think is the main feature the LS brings to the table in terms of reliability and driveability by ditching the fuel injection. Unless you are a fabricator, and have tuning knowledge and a complete donor vehicle at your disposal you are really are at the mercy of the aftermarket in terms of a successful LS swap and that drives the cost up.

why would i do any of that. the 4l60e will fit in place of a 700r4. i can get a whole wrecked truck for under 3k. the hanress if i want i cut stuff out. wiring diagram if you dont know what to remove. i dont even have too do that. other than changing the collectors the stock exhaust will bolt up about 50 bucks to do. pcm tuning you can bypass vats without tuning or pcm4less does it for 250 bucks. efi pumps and the tank or tank mods and the motor mounts are the biggest hurdels and you will need new. as for dbw get the pedal out of the wrecked truck. 5k you could swap a duramax. you can also make your own motor mounts but you get the adapter plates for 50 bucks so idk if its cost effictive. might save 20 bucks.

[nekkidhillbilly]

http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...de-1500-a.html

1500 bucks is what it cost him.

[K5owner]

http://lexington.craigslist.org/pts/4358063883.html
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/pts/4410841928.html
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/pts/4403401979.html
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/pts/4369959968.html

I am on my third LS conversion. One of each size 4.8 (FJ) 5.3 (C10) and 6.0 (K10) Each time it has gotten progressively less expensive but nowhere near 3K yet. You guys must have LS's laying around out there. I would love to see it done cheaper. Good luck with your swap.

Yup That link as well as a few other ones on LS1tech and some other sites are where I started and borrowed the knowledge I used. BTW he does those conversion for a living and finding $450 LS's at least on this side of the US is not that common without them having some unforeseen issues. My 4.8 had a spun bearing and journal cracks that necessitated a new block. So my $600 engine turned into more then it should have. Like I said It can be done for cheaper and my buddy and I as we flip these trucks are getting better at it but we just can't get the engines and trans that cheap. At least not in so cal.

[nekkidhillbilly]

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv...411379590.html

ill play