Camaro drivetrain alignment ???

[1958Warrior]

I'm in the process of trying to get my drive train set up in my 58 step side.
I've got a 1980 Trans Am(Camaro) rear end which is pinion is offset to the passenger side, installed using the no limits video not welded in yet. Pinion angle is to set at 2*degrees down
I've got an 1974 Camaro sub frame grafted in going by the no limits video.
I've got the no limits trans cross member #M160 which is called out in the video to center the 700r4 trans to be installed.

Now I went to get my engine leveled found I needed the trans tail to go down right at 2" to get it leveled. this was using stock motor mounts So I figured to raise the motor 2" instead. no big deal The video shows a little bit (not enough)on making motor mounts to raise the motor .
I took some measurements before raising the motor from the stock location every thing looks good motor leveled .

Now motor is in the stock location 2" up and offset to the passenger side
rearend pinion is offset to the passenger side. Trans crossmember is CENTERED in the frame rails. Seams as if it should be offset also?

In the video it says to get the motor centered in the frame where you want it
however the Camaro sub frame is not symmetrical . So how to center the motor and is the drive shaft suppose to be a straight shot back to the pinion ?

[OrrieG]

Assuming the clip is square and level to the ioriginal frame, just make sure the engine is parallel with the center line, a little offset is got a big deal. Pinion being offset is not a big deal either, universal joints need about 4 degrees offset to work best. Make sure the carb base plate is level, this will give the block and transmission about 4 degrees down angle to match how they were originally configured. That will set the trans crossmember mounting location.

[1958Warrior]

Yes clip is squared and leveled. Issue is not with getting the motor leveled.

Its with how to get it centered or offset to get the correct parallel angle and what that angle is actually suppose to be.

The Camaro sub frame off sets the motor to the passenger side from the factory. with the trans cross member centering the tail of the trans , I 'm actually getting an angle back toward the rear drivers side tire opposite the pinion which is also offset to the passengers side .

I've seen builds where they use the factory mount locations and have their trans tail several inches below the frame. Also seen motors raised with the tail level with the frame, just don't know if they also offset their trans toward the pass. side? or raise it and move the motor over ? Talking about roughly 1/2".

Seems like if I offset the trans cross member a 1/2" I should get a straight shot to the pinion. I'm leaning towards this route. just not sure if this was the original factory way it was set up .

I tend to over think things, really seems like to center everything motor and trans makes the most sense , but then the rear pinion offset cannot be so ?
I haven't found any info on the 2 plane driveline set up .

looking at this site there are 2 plane angle drive lines just shows a picture no info on set up.

http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_cata..._problems.html

[47 Fasttoys]

The key is to make sure what ever the angle you have at the rear of the transmission is cancelled at the pinon. Meaning if the transmission is -4 degrees the pinon should be +4 degrees. The same applies to side angles, if the pinon is off set to one side but perpendicular the frame then engine center line also needs parallel to the frame (output shaft end perpendicular). Think of it this way, if you view the drive shaft angle verses the transmission angle verses the pinon angle from the side, it needs to look the same if you where viewing it from the top. This way the angles cancel. Many of the old Ford 9 inch rear end where had the off set condition. Many of the new stuff also has the engine off set to one side. If you off set the front of the engine but not the transmission you will not have cancelling drive shaft side angles. I learned all this the hard way when I had pinon shaft explode from vibration during a burnout, yea, that was not to impressive on my maiden test run in front of the house.

[_Ogre]

stock camaro mm will mount the motor real low in the engine bay
i'd install the cab to locate the motor near the stock location
this location may be high enough to center the motor in your clip

imo... a level carb is good, up or down a few degrees is ok too. don't focus on a level carb, focus on what looks/fits good
how many stock vehicles have been raised a few inches in the back to accommodate big wheels. they run fine

without the cab on the frame i'm not sure how anyone could finalize the motor/trans location
i left my cab on until the suspension, motor mounts and ifs was complete

[1958Warrior]

Ogre , I have the cab on, I wanted to make sure I had clearance on the cab as well as with the drive shaft before welding things in. The issue that I'm debating is weather to offset every thing to the Pass. side a 1/2' to match the rear .I plan on raising the motor 2" up from stock location to give the oil pan clearance and keep the trans up also. This levels the motor at 0* on the carb intake and gives me my 4*down going off the machined surface bottom of the block and the front cam surface .
I'm using a bare block with my tranny core for mock up.
Looks like I'll need to modify my trans cover or get a 3 speed one. drive shaft should clear the frame cross bracing.
The Camaro clip and rear has been done probably 1000's of times . I was just trying to figure out what the Camaro geometry was to start with. Also what others have done.I'm thinking everything was offset and not a 2 plane driveline.

Fastoys , I don't want to learn the hard way (like I normally do) either.

The more I drink , I mean think about it, the more offsetting everything makes more sense, it will offset the weight of the drivers butt , and the fender mounted spare tire, and my ice chest.
I've seen tons of 4x4's lifted up with steep angles on their drive shafts, got me thinking it has to be hard on their u joints.

[OrrieG]

Originally Posted by 1958Warrior

I've seen tons of 4x4's lifted up with steep angles on their drive shafts, got me thinking it has to be hard on their u joints.

My truck has 74 K10 axles on the stock springs (mounted on the bottom). To get the truck level the back has 4" lift blocks, with an angle to point the pinion up. The engine/trans has the 4 degree down angle, I have never measured the pinion angle, but know they are not the same. I drove the truck from 1985 to 2000 as my daily driver, averaged 7K mile per year about 70% in town, rest on 2 lane roads to get to the off-road areas I camped and hunted. In town and on the 2 lanes it saw lots of 75 mph. In that time I never had any vibration or problems with the driveline or u-joints; no tranny or pinion seal issue either. I inspected them changed the grease and put them back in there is no slop. The drive line was built by a local guy that specializes in off-road and race cars.

[1958Warrior]

I've heard a lot of horror stories about pinion angles . Then again like you there are guys running a lot more angle and never had a problem.
My brother in law , had a 1980 Toyota 4x4 , with huge mud tires and a big body lift , bottom of the door was about 4ft off the ground ,had to climb on the tire then the running board to get in. Mini Monster truck. Short little truck had severe angles on his drive shafts , ran on the freeway all the time Dallas to Oklahoma and Arkansas , never had any problems. Other than the law.

I think I'll just move the trans mount over the 1/2" to match the pinion and keep the motor offset to keep everything in a straight line Seems to be the simplest solution.

I'll have to wait till I get another weekend off before I can do anything

Come to think of it Gas Monkey is just a couple of blocks over from my work maybe I could swing by there and get their xpert opinoin.

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by 1958Warrior

The issue that I'm debating is weather to offset every thing to the Pass. side a 1/2' to match the rear

the offset is not a concern. center the motor and make it straight, the pinion is also straight
what ever the offset the angles are matched and won't move with the suspension
this is what u-joints are for

pull the floor trans cover when you install motor and trans and get the motor as far back as you can
these trucks are a little front heavy even an inch back can help weight transfer
i had to mod my cover just a tad to clear the bell housing on my 700r4

[OrrieG]

1958 warrior there was a guy in 85 that had a similar Toyota truck that my driveline guy worked on. He said the angles were so severe that he was replacing at least one u-joint every 3-4 months, even with a double cardan type joints.

[1958Warrior]

Just to follow up with , The transmission mount on stock Camaro/Trans Am sub frames IS offset to the passenger side by 1/2", so all is offset to the passenger side by 1/2". motor trans and pinion. so if using stock motor mount location, trans should be offset as well.

Just bought another Trans Am sub frame, with the trans cross member and posi rearend for future use. Just couldn't pass it up, $150 for all. ....I think I'm addicted

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by 1958Warrior

I think I'm addicted

we lost another one