65 3 on the tree with over drive ?'s

[frankslagoon]

Southern, you can still shift without the clutch into first if the overdrive cable is in. is that correct?

[j_lee223]

Ok nice, so no floating gears. How strong are the old Muncies can that take above 350-400HP&TQ. I'm not trying to set records. I just want something fun with a lot of cool to drive around.

[frankslagoon]

Southern, you can still shift down without the clutch if the overdrive cable is in. is that correct?

[frankslagoon]

So Lee with 3 sp. is in your truck now. the Muncie or the saginaw

[SOUTHERN917]

No you can't shift to 1st without clutch and being at an almost dead stop, and I'm pushing mine with a standard build 70's 350, and it has enough a$$ to impress the teenagers :-) I drive 40 miles round trip 3 -4 times a week 55-65 mph, and it is still smooth shifting. Long run I don't know how it will hold up, but so far so good.

[j_lee223]

Nice I have a 3spd sag in my truck and an m21 in my garage. no synchro 1st in my 3spd so I can float no clutch 2nd to 3rd not 1st to 2nd. Idk about the m21 I should since it's full synchro

[luvbowties]

Originally Posted by SOUTHERN917

jlee223 it is non-syncro. 1st is too low to reach the 25-30mph required to shift into OD. The governor (25-30mph) regulates the solenoid which allows OD to engage when you momentarily let off the gas. You shift to 2nd, get upto 30mph, let off gas for 1/2 a second and it shifts "automatically" into 2 1/2. If you shift to 3rd from 2 1/2 it will be in OD or 3 1/2. I mounted my kickdown (down shift out of OD) toggle on the dash.

Southern, u can wire a switch to your governor which will allow tranny to go into od at any speed you wish, for ex.--1st to 1st od at 12mph, 1st od to 2nd at 20mph, 2nd to 2nd od at 30, 2nd od to 3rd at 40 mph, 3rd to 3rd od at 50 mph. Just have to keep switching the added switch. Easy way to work the switch is to add a 2nd dimmer switch in floor, wire it to governor, and do the switching with your left foot. Gives you an effective 6-speed tranny--yes, 6 forward gears.

I've done the above using it with a 327/250hp--hopped up--and worked like a charm. Lotsa fun! Just don't look for speed-shifting unless od is locked out via cable; then it's just like a normal, not so strong factory 3-speed. But if your competition tried you on top end, he'd be hard pressed, because when you unlock via cable & allowed 3rd od, it gives your 4.11 rear end a 2.88 ratio[70%] which knows no limit for top speed racing.
Sam

[SOUTHERN917]

Thanks luv, I have seen the wiring diagram for that set up. When I installed it I was just trying to get it on the road and saving the "fun" stuff till I can install a new rear axle. Not sure the original on it now could take the abuse I would be forced to give it!!

[frankslagoon]

Originally Posted by luvbowties

Lee, GM's overdrives are complete transmissions not add-on-to-the-end units. Any overdrive from 1955 thru approx. 1969 should be roughly a bolt-in for your truck. (Among these, the earlier were non-synchronized in 1st gear, just like your orig. trans. The latter-year ones were fully-synch'd.)

I've used std. 3-speed floor-shifters and they fit the o/d trannies just like the non-overdrives. I feel sure one would conform to your stock, on the column shifter--maybe have to slightly bend a rod or two, yet maybe not even that.

Your biggest problem would be in finding one; and I'd suggest you find a complete unit/system, as parts are difficult to find. Should you be fortunate enough to locate one, installed correctly it would make for a sweet-operating vehicle.

It has a 70% gear reduction, meaning it would alter final drive of a 4.11 to a 2.88 (The math: 4.11 X.70 = 2.877). Gives best of both worlds, giving 4.11 to get going and 2.88 for cruising above 30 mph--that's approx. where the centrifugally-actuated governor allows driver to engage the od. [You could engage it in any gear so long as the engine would sustain such rpm's to go that speed!] Vehicles with that tranny generally came with a 4.11; altho' it would prolly work fine w/a 3.73--but anything numerically lower would likely lug your engine.

Hope this gives you a little insight into the GM 3-speed overdrives. They look just like the one that slorio led you to.
sam

Bowtie. are you running power thru the gov. and then over to the sol. I thought the gov. grounded the relay and then the power came thru the relay to the sol.

[frankslagoon]

Southern907, You should be able to shift between 2nd and 1st without the clutch as long as your under the magic mph 25 or 28? that's the cool thing about the Borg warner O/D. it doesn't matter which tranny you have. it's the freewheel clutch in the overdrive that lets ya go clutchless. but it has disengage the sol. I have the overdrive behind the 4 sp. but it worked the same way with the 3 speed. if I turn the switch off with the cable still in overdrive I can take the tranny from high gear to 1st without the clutch easy but ya got no engine brakeing. and as soon as ya rev it up enough for the engine to caught up away ya go. Am I right guys & gals ?

[jcramsey]

Originally Posted by frankslagoon

So check this out. We put the BW overdrive on a 4 speed sag. this winter so far it works good

Thats pretty cool frankslagoon....did you have to mod the saginaw case at all?

Thats an R10 overdrive right?

[SOUTHERN917]

Frankslagoon, yes mine should work that way, however I am going to have to replace my speedo gears internally.....I'm 15mph slow on my speedo, so I actually have to get up to 40 for my od to kick in, so it throws shifting off just a little too.

[frankslagoon]

Originally Posted by luvbowties

Southern, u can wire a switch to your governor which will allow tranny to go into od at any speed you wish, for ex.--1st to 1st od at 12mph, 1st od to 2nd at 20mph, 2nd to 2nd od at 30, 2nd od to 3rd at 40 mph, 3rd to 3rd od at 50 mph. Just have to keep switching the added switch. Easy way to work the switch is to add a 2nd dimmer switch in floor, wire it to governor, and do the switching with your left foot. Gives you an effective 6-speed tranny--yes, 6 forward gears.

I've done the above using it with a 327/250hp--hopped up--and worked like a charm. Lotsa fun! Just don't look for speed-shifting unless od is locked out via cable; then it's just like a normal, not so strong factory 3-speed. But if your competition tried you on top end, he'd be hard pressed, because when you unlock via cable & allowed 3rd od, it gives your 4.11 rear end a 2.88 ratio[70%] which knows no limit for top speed racing.
Sam

You mean wire a switch to the soliniod. not the governor ?

[frankslagoon]

Southern maybe your gov. is gummed up. the governor doesn't care what the speedo says or if it's even hooked up. the gov. is driven off the drive gear on the output shaft inside the tail housing the speedo gear to the dash rides on that gear also but doesn,t have anything to do with the o/d gov. I'm pretty sure bowtie is runnin power to the sol. not the gov. ?

[j_lee223]

I'm taking a lot of notes haha

[frankslagoon]

Originally Posted by jcramsey

Thats pretty cool frankslagoon....did you have to mod the saginaw case at all?

Thats an R10 overdrive right?

Yes its a R10 the R11s r hard to find they have 4 gear pinion gear ass. instead of 3. You have drill a hole in the 4 speed case for the reverse lock out rod to come thru. ya can,t shift into reverse while in overdrive or you'll kill the engine. the o/d trannys have a bump on the reverse shifter inside the tranny that pushes a rod back into the o/d and shifts out of o/d when ya shift into reverse. But I'm thinkin the cases might be the same and ya could actually use the 3 speed case. maybe,

[frankslagoon]

Originally Posted by j_lee223

I'm taking a lot of notes haha

[jtrichard]

IF you clip the gov. spring you can get OD in first and if you make a shift knob with a kick-down switch in it you can shift first let off the gas first/over then shift to second push the button ....now in second let off the gas and now in second/over .....shift to third push the button now in third let off gas and third over ...MY dad did this on a top load 3 speed years ago

[frankslagoon]

Originally Posted by jtrichard

IF you clip the gov. spring you can get OD in first and if you make a shift knob with a kick-down switch in it you can shift first let off the gas first/over then shift to second push the button ....now in second let off the gas and now in second/over .....shift to third push the button now in third let off gas and third over ...MY dad did this on a top load 3 speed years ago

I don,t have the gov. hooked up at all Just a wire from the fuse blk to the sol. with a switch in it. I can turn it on in any gear at any speed and let up on the gas and she goes into over drive.

[frankslagoon]

I would kinda like to get the gov. hooked up cuase I have a habit of leaven it switched on and starten out in o/d 1st gear. which isn't a good idea.

[jtrichard]

what you have done is bypassed the gov.- relay and kick down switches.... You do pull the cable out when parked???? is the solenoid power on ing. switched or acc.? so when you shut the truck off there is no power to the solenoid?

[frankslagoon]

That's what I did . I ran a wire from fuse blk. that comes on when I turn the key on. then up to a switch on my shifter. then down to the sol. the switch is a 30 amp push -pull and so far it's hangen in there?? but my problem is the relay. All the old relays look like a 3 prong relay.I think the power should go from the batt. or ign. to the relay and thru the relay to the sol. the gov. must finish the circuit by grounding the relay ? is that right. ?

[frankslagoon]

I usually leave the cable in overdrive and always put the trk in reverse putten it in reverse is the same as pullen the cable out

[frankslagoon]

Originally Posted by j_lee223

Nice I have a 3spd sag in my truck and an m21 in my garage. no synchro 1st in my 3spd so I can float no clutch 2nd to 3rd not 1st to 2nd. Idk about the m21 I should since it's full synchro

To bad we are so far apart I have one of the non syncro o/d that would slid right into your trk. like Southerns. I'd make ya a good deal on. I bet you could find one arfe you in texas or Cal. that's the one that your linkage would fit.

[j_lee223]

I am in tx I need to update that. I just got out of the Corps, and I would spend half my time in tx and half in Cali.