TKO 600 swap

[mikentosh]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Cse..what are you gonna do about the shifter location?

Mikentosh..what did you do on your shifter location? Yours looks like its been moved forward..

Asking because I've got a 6060 and am considering wether to do a internal or external shifter relocation..with internal I'm concerned with the shifter throw being to wide with a longer stick..and the external corrects for the ratio but will eat up tunnel space..I need my shifter in approximate location of old floor shifter..between seat front and firewall..

In both trucks we used the forward shifter location on the TR6060, and used an adapter that you can get on eBay (search for Qwik Stik on there). They make them in various offsets as well so you can dial it in. I will warn you that these adapters are kinda hokey and the one in Cannonball busted apart at 90mph on the freeway . We have since re-engineered the mounting method to use studs instead of the bolts that come with it and it works much, much better.

[mikentosh]

Originally Posted by cse

@mikentosh - Thanks for posting up your two floor pictures. Your blue truck looks to have the same high hump I have. I'm going to have to do some boxing or mini-tunnel behind the bolt in hump like you did. I'm waiting to get the driveshaft in to determine exactly how much. I was hoping to stop cutting where I did, but I'm already at 4 degrees down on the tailshaft and I don't think I will have enough clearance for the driveshaft as the rear axle travels. I'd like to make it all bolt in, but I'm concerned it may not be as rigid as welding it in. Are the humps in the blue truck and Cannonball bolt-in or are they welded? Also good information on the forward shifter position working well in your trucks. I haven't put the seat back in, but just eye-balling it looks like it's going to work.

Both humps were just bolted in, then seam sealed. In Cannonball we added an access cover on the top as we partially assembled the cab and sprayed in Lizard Skin before we had it mounted on the chassis, and didn't know exactly where the shifter was going to come out. This ended up saving us later when the shifter adapter blew apart on the freeway and we had to do a roadside repair (didn't have to pull back all the carpeting and pull the whole high hump).

[mongocanfly]

This is one I was looking at from core shifters.https://core-shifters.com/products/c...eed-trans-swap

[mikentosh]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

This is one I was looking at from core shifters.https://core-shifters.com/products/c...eed-trans-swap

This one looks like it might cause the same problems we had. I found a picture of the "incident":



Basically the top billet piece containing the actual ball joint bolts into the bottom plate with 4 bolts that only engage with 2 or 3 threads (You can see the bottom of the similar piece in the 7th picture on the Core Shifter website). They feel the need to do this as the transmission linkage comes quite close underneath. We used red locktite on the 4 bolts and they still managed to come loose and actually destroy the threads in the base plate. We fixed this by running pan head screws upside down through the bottom plate which act like studs for the upper piece, and used nyloc nuts on the top. The only kink with that is we have an offset shifter and the offset piece would make contact with the nuts when going into reverse, so some grinding was in order.

[mongocanfly]

For the life of me I can't find the external shifter relocation kit I was looking at..I thought I saved fhe web site cause they catered to tr6060 in trucks..this is a sikky but the one I was looking at resembles this but you could buy it in different ratios to shorten the shifter throw depending on stick height...

[mongocanfly]

Yikes..that a bad "incedent"..what did you do to fix it?

[mikentosh]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Yikes..that a bad "incedent"..

It was especially fun as this occurred as I was upshifting while passing a bunch of semis at about 90mph. I go to grab 6th gear and the whole shifter just comes off in my hand after the shift gate goes into neutral, so we were without any connection to the drive wheels at that point. Hilariously I turn to my buddy in the passenger seat (who was asleep up to that point) and start quoting Days of Thunder..."Just give me high gear!". He actually rams his hand down into the trans tunnel and somehow manages to push the shift linkage into 4th. I clutch out and we promptly exit the highway at the next exit. This all happened within about 20 seconds hahaha.

[mikentosh]

Here's the bottom of the prototype for our final fix:



The fix has held up for almost 5000 miles of hard driving.

[mongocanfly]

Good fix..while were in the shifter subject..how does the shifter travel feel with a longer stick in your truck..

[mikentosh]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Good fix..while were in the shifter subject..how does the shifter travel feel with a longer stick in your truck..

Well it the shifter travel doesn't feel out of place for a performance application. Its definitely not short throw in a sports car sense, but its much less than a stock truck application (comparing it to the shop truck S10). Best I can say is that it doesn't stand out at you as being an issue...or in other words it feels normal.

I can get more measurements of shifter length and throw tonight if you'd like.

[mongocanfly]

That'd be great mike..I'm probably gonna go with the core shifters on mine..it should put the stick real close to where I need it...I know the stock shifter doesn't move much at all but till I get mine in and the seat installed I don't know for sure how long my shifter will need to be..

[mikentosh]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

That'd be great mike..I'm probably gonna go with the core shifters on mine..it should put the stick real close to where I need it...I know the stock shifter doesn't move much at all but till I get mine in and the seat installed I don't know for sure how long my shifter will need to be..

So the shifter stick is a vintage curved Hurst unit that's 14" long. Travel is 4 1/2" between 3-4 gear.

[mongocanfly]

Thanks mike...thas not bad at all..

[cse]

Originally Posted by mikentosh

It was especially fun as this occurred as I was upshifting while passing a bunch of semis at about 90mph. I go to grab 6th gear and the whole shifter just comes off in my hand after the shift gate goes into neutral, so we were without any connection to the drive wheels at that point. Hilariously I turn to my buddy in the passenger seat (who was asleep up to that point) and start quoting Days of Thunder..."Just give me high gear!". He actually rams his hand down into the trans tunnel and somehow manages to push the shift linkage into 4th. I clutch out and we promptly exit the highway at the next exit. This all happened within about 20 seconds hahaha.

Wow, that is not the way you want to wake up from a nice nap. Impressive he was able to reach in there and find a lower gear. I once woke up in the back seat of a crew cab to the driver screaming like a little girl right before we hit a cow so hard it launched off a cliff in Baja. We almost followed it in the truck. I have to be really, really tired to sleep in a car now.

Anyway, your incident made me curious enough to go look at my shifter. Mine is designed like your fix, with the bolts coming up from the bottom which gives plenty of thread engagement. I'll still check and loctite before assembly. The base plate on my shifter is obviously thicker than the one you show, which allows for the screws to be countersunk and come up in to the tower. Curious why they made the plate so thin on yours that it only allowed for a few threads. The only drawback I can see to making the plate thicker is loss of floor clearance.

Thanks for sharing your problem, certainly helps to know where the potential weaknesses are.

[mongocanfly]

Who makes that shifter cse?..that looks good

[mikentosh]

Agreed, that looks like a much better design than the one I have. I got that other one back in 2013 when there was very little TR6060 support...things are getting much better now. Though I still see a lack of good documentation on the 6060 for things like trans cooler inlet/outlet, VSS details, etc.

[cse]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Who makes that shifter cse?..that looks good

The shifter came from Silver Sport Transmissions. A little pricey, but I liked the feel and design. And good people to work with.

[mongocanfly]

Thanks cse..ill check em out..

[cse]

I'm getting close to the first drive and getting excited.

Question for the people who are running late model manual transmissions with reverse lockout solenoids - Are you using them or is the mechanical gate spring enough?

The T56 Magnum package I bought for my swap came with a reverse lockout control module. Shifting the transmission on the floor, it seems like it would be really tough to hit Reverse going from 6 to 5. I try to keep the truck as minimalistic as possible, but if an unwanted shift to Reverse is a common problem with the T56 or TKO600 then I may wire up the module.

What is your experience?

[cse]

I’ve made some good progress, including a test drive, since my last post.

I was able to use the stock crossmember. For my output shaft angle, I had to move the stock crossmember to isolator holes back .300” and down .700”. I also had to add a notch in the flange to clear a casting boss in the transmission. You can see it in the crossmember picture.

A few things I learned during this phase:

1. Never trust Lakewood offset bellhousing pin packaging. This one was my fault. In my last update I mentioned that my bellhousing to transmission concentricity was off. Well I ordered .007” Lakewood offset pins that I needed to bring it in spec. The packaging was marked “.007” and the pins were heat-shrink packaged. I put them in and setup my measurement gauge and took the measurement. The number came in .007” out of spec in the wrong direction. I thought I had screwed up the measurement, so I slowly rotated the crank another 360 and got the same reading. Figuring it had to be the pins I drilled and tapped one of the pins so I could pull it out. Once the pin was out, I noticed it had a small ‘14’ stamped in the bottom. I measured it and it was indeed a .014” offset. Of course, Summit exchanged it no problem, but I lost quite a bit of time on that one.

2. The transmission came with a mechanical speedometer adapter, but I needed to add a 90 degree adapter to use the original manual speedometer cable.

3. I needed a male to male adapter to connect the 1987 OEM clutch master cylinder to the hydraulic throw-out bearing line. I didn’t have an OEM hose and the master cylinder was already mounted to the firewall, so it took a little digging to figure out that MC thread is M12x1. I couldn’t find a M12x1 to AN3 at our local shops, so ended up having to order online and lost a weekend.

This weekend I cut a hole in the OEM high hump to clear the T56 shifter. After setting the hump in place, I think I will end up cutting the back of the high hump off through the center line of the 3" hole I cut. Then fabricate a second piece to transition from the hump to the floor under the seat. This will give me a flat area for the shift boot bezel. Need to think on this a little more.

The test drive was a blast, in spite of the 500 degree Arizona heat blowing up through the huge hole in the floor. Now on to deciding on the shifter lever and getting the floor done.

[MalibuSSwagon]

Originally Posted by cse

I'm getting close to the first drive and getting excited.

Question for the people who are running late model manual transmissions with reverse lockout solenoids - Are you using them or is the mechanical gate spring enough?

The T56 Magnum package I bought for my swap came with a reverse lockout control module. Shifting the transmission on the floor, it seems like it would be really tough to hit Reverse going from 6 to 5. I try to keep the truck as minimalistic as possible, but if an unwanted shift to Reverse is a common problem with the T56 or TKO600 then I may wire up the module.

What is your experience?

The solenoid is normally closed to block the gate out (I'm sure you already figured this out). You can force it with some effort, or have it on a push button to supply 12V+ to the solenoid to allow easy reverse engagement. Or one of these. Pricey for what it does, however. http://www.samocoind.com/T56MODULE.html

[cse]

Thanks for the info MalibuSSwagon. I like the push button idea, or a softer solenoid spring, better than the overly complicated, speed-sensitive module.