Misc. Questions on new 1963 Pick up. Engine/Trans.

[Rusty63]

if the dist. cap has a access door,its easy to set points with dwell meter,if you have one..my engine is sitting on a stand in garage right now,but will let you know how it runs in spring :^)

[1Loud63PU]

Originally Posted by nail pounder

I agree that timing sounds like the issue. What is that blue port, I can't tell from the pic but I would plug it. Vacuum leaks can make a good motor run like crap. If you can get the truck to idle, I would spray starter fluid on any possible vacuum leaks and see if your rpm increases.

Thanks, I tried that the other day but didn’t notice anything. I will try it again.

The blue port looks exactly like this.
https://m.ebay.com/itm/AC-Delco-EGR-...wAAOSwz71ZXPSM

[ImpalaJim]

Id like to see how they did that gas tank I bought a lmc tank and cross member is in the way

[Captainfab]

There will be no changing of points and condenser. You have an HEI distributor.....it is electronic. It is possible the cap rotor and plug wires should be changed. Those all look fairly old.

The 'blue valve' is just an emissions related device which regulates vacuum to the distributor and possibly the choke based on the coolant temperature. I do not see any vacuum lines connected to is, so there is nothing to be concerned with.

[1Loud63PU]

Originally Posted by Rusty63

if the dist. cap has a access door,its easy to set points with dwell meter,if you have one..my engine is sitting on a stand in garage right now,but will let you know how it runs in spring :^)

Autozone said the points and condensor were not applicable with the truck, so I guess it doesn’t have any.
Well good luck with yours, hope if runs great from the start.

Originally Posted by ImpalaJim

Id like to see how they did that gas tank I bought a lmc tank and cross member is in the way

Not sure, my dad did all the work to the truck, I’ll get some pictures of it for you.

Originally Posted by Captainfab

There will be no changing of points and condenser. You have an HEI distributor.....it is electronic. It is possible the cap rotor and plug wires should be changed. Those all look fairly old.

The 'blue valve' is just an emissions related device which regulates vacuum to the distributor and possibly the choke based on the coolant temperature. I do not see any vacuum lines connected to is, so there is nothing to be concerned with.

Yea, guess there aren’t any points or condenser on it.
So the blue valve can’t be left alone right?

I did change the plugs, plug wires, rotor and cap today.
New vacuum lines everywhere. Makes no difference.
Will be doing the timing sometime this week and hopefully that fixes it.

The vacuum advance diaphragm was in working order. It is crushed a bit on the back, but I applied vacuum to it with a small pump, the rod moved all the way back.(which isn’t much travel, maybe 1/4”)

Here are a few pictures of today.
First 2 are of the distributor.
Third one is the back of the vacuum advance that is crushed a bit.
Last pic is one side of the engines old plugs vs new. I tapped the new plugs at .045”

I also sprayed starting fluid all around the carb, it didn’t seem to make a difference in idle.

[AcampoDave]

When you put the rotor back on you should be able to gently twist the mechanical advance forward umtil it stops by grasping the rotor. When you let go it should snap back. Ive seen many an old distributor that has that mecanical advace plate frozen up with crud and corrosion. If so, a removal of the distributor for a good cleaning and lubing of the advance or a replcaement is needed.

[1Loud63PU]

Originally Posted by AcampoDave

When you put the rotor back on you should be able to gently twist the mechanical advance forward umtil it stops by grasping the rotor. When you let go it should snap back. Ive seen many an old distributor that has that mecanical advace plate frozen up with crud and corrosion. If so, a removal of the distributor for a good cleaning and lubing of the advance or a replcaement is needed.

Yes, the rotor would turn counter clockwise a tiny bit then stop. It would turn clock wise with tension on it and it would snap back.

[AcampoDave]

Originally Posted by 1Loud63PU

Yes, the rotor would turn counter clockwise a tiny bit then stop. It would turn clock wise with tension on it and it would snap back.

Good, it still looks old as heck, but chances are good that it'll roll on. After you get it buttoned back up, set the inital timing at about 12 degrees like you were planning on doing and we'll see how it goes. Just an FYI, be sure your new plug wires are installed in the right order. Do you know how to set the firing order? Forgive me if I am treating you like a novice but I'm not sure how much you know about "the basics" and I hate to see people empty their wallets on parts before they cover all the fundamentals of engine tuning first.

[1Loud63PU]

Originally Posted by AcampoDave

Good, it still looks old as heck, but chances are good that it'll roll on. After you get it buttoned back up, set the inital timing at about 12 degrees like you were planning on doing and we'll see how it goes. Just an FYI, be sure your new plug wires are installed in the right order. Do you know how to set the firing order? Forgive me if I am treating you like a novice but I'm not sure how much you know about "the basics" and I hate to see people empty their wallets on parts before they cover all the fundamentals of engine tuning first.

Yea, I had planned to set the timing at 12° this Saturday, things have changed.
I put the wires back in the order they came out of, I tried a few different orders I saw online, but no other ones worked.
From what I was told, the engine came from a 1978 chevy pick up. I tried looking looking for an engine number on the block but didn’t find anything.

And no worries, I appreciate all the help and advice.
I did find out, cylinder 8 does not get hot like the rest of the cylinders.(I figured this out by using the water trick I saw a few days ago, spray water on the headers and see if it evaporates. Every other cylinder evaporated but cylinder 8)

But 2 hours ago,

The truck caught on fire!! Not the whole truck, but the carb did and most of the engine bay. Was running it from inside the cab when I see a small 1.5 ft flame. By the time I ran out to it, it was about a 3-4 ft flame.
Grabbed the water hose to try and control it, was able to bring it down to about a ft when I grabbed the fire extinguisher and put it out.
Water everywhere. I wasn’t worried about the engine, I could just clean it/air it out of water. But the hood Paint lifted up.
I was a little worried about all the wiring I was going to have to figure out, but just the insulation on them charred, won’t be hard to replace them.

Took the carb and plugs off, started to take the manifold off, but just got as far as removing the bolts for it.
Probably scariest feeling I’ve ever felt!

[Palf70Step]

Man, sorry to hear/see that

[AcampoDave]

That sucks bro, hope you can get it all sorted out. We'll be here if you need more assistance. This is a great place with plenty of genuine enthusiasts who enjoy helping others. Just ask.

[1Loud63PU]

Thanks guys.

Originally Posted by Palf70Step

Man, sorry to hear/see that

Yea, such a shame it happened.
Took time asses the damage today, doesn’t look too bad. Definitely a set back from where I was at though.

Originally Posted by AcampoDave

That sucks bro, hope you can get it all sorted out. We'll be here if you need more assistance. This is a great place with plenty of genuine enthusiasts who enjoy helping others. Just ask.

I looked around today, one wire harness that goes to the distributor and starter was burned and the wires that run to the tail lights were burned also. Should take a couple of hours to re do them. Some of my new plug wires burned also, so I’ll meed a new set. Besides that, everything else is still good.

Just a mess every where from the fire extinguisher.

Saw a few things when I was taking the wires off the harness today that I have questions on.

The first picture, is that silver piece suppose to pop out a little bit?
(Don’t mind the debri, going to clean all that tomorrow.)

The second picture is a power wire that goes to the starter from the positive battery terminal. It rested against the exhaust and melted the insulation. So I’m sure the power was touching groud(the header)
Could this have been an issue causing the misfire before?

Also, would an edelbrock 650 cfm carb be an upgrade from the carb I have now?

[AcampoDave]

Before we get to the silver things, let's talk about the potential cause of the fire. You're suspicion is correct about the big battery lead melting on the header. That is the likely culprit. The starter is a high amp load and it needs that big ol' cable to deliver the juice. It's obviously not protected by any kind of fuse. There are also smaller circuits which are unprotected such as the smaller wire connected to the battery terminal. When an unprotected circuit arcs to ground there is nothing to stop it. It gets hot and the insulation begins melting. The heat spreads along the length of the wire and begins to cook off all the insulation. Ignition of the melting plastic becomes a real possibility. Smaller wires may burn thru, thus stopping the short, but that big ol cable was cookin' bud.

[AcampoDave]

The silver things are your lifters. They ride on the cam lobes and each lifter is mated to its specific cam lobe due to the wear characteristics caused by the rotation of the cam. They are not interchangeable!!! Watch this video.. https://youtu.be/N2y77vEKorI it will show you the lifters riding on the cam and operating the pushrods. The pushrods go up thru the heads to the rocker arms and open and close the valves
As you watch the animation, you will see the motor take in the blue intake charge as the cam raises the lifter which transfers the upward motion to the pushrod. The pushrod operates the rocker arm which is a fulcrum that converts the upward motion to a downward motion. This opens the valve. Next you, see the combustion happen and then you can see the the process happen again so that the exhaust valve can expell the spent gases.

[AcampoDave]

The reason the firing order must be set is because the distributor has to deliver that spark to the plug at the precise moment. The rotor must be in sinc with the operation of the valves. Therefore, upon reassembly of the motor it is imperative to reinstall the distributor and plug wires using a process that ensures the order is correct. Setting the timing is simply a way of "fine tuning" the precise instant that the firing order delivers the spark to the plug.

[AcampoDave]

Right now, if you want to save that engine you need to vacuum all that crud outta there, and get the oil and filter changed before rotating anything. Don't crank it over or turn the balancer until then. We don't know how much extinguisher powder actually got into the motor, but I think it best to avoid spreading it around. I sure hope tthe air filter was in place when you put out the fire and with even more luck that the motor wasn't running. Again forgive me if I am treating you like a newbie, but I do get the feeling that your enthusiasm is greater than your experience. Edit: as to the carb question, I would do a compression test before making any major investments into the existing motor. It doesn't need to be running to do that.

[Mack B]

Dave’s got you covered on the do’s and donts. I just wanted to express my sympathys, sir. I was hoping to open this to see you got your backfire issue fixed and saw this . Glad it wasn’t worse, hope you get it back together quick.

[1Loud63PU]

Originally Posted by AcampoDave

Before we get to the silver things, let's talk about the potential cause of the fire. You're suspicion is correct about the big battery lead melting on the header. That is the likely culprit. The starter is a high amp load and it needs that big ol' cable to deliver the juice. It's obviously not protected by any kind of fuse. There are also smaller circuits which are unprotected such as the smaller wire connected to the battery terminal. When an unprotected circuit arcs to ground there is nothing to stop it. It gets hot and the insulation begins melting. The heat spreads along the length of the wire and begins to cook off all the insulation. Ignition of the melting plastic becomes a real possibility. Smaller wires may burn thru, thus stopping the short, but that big ol cable was cookin' bud.

The truck has a small fuse box in the cabin that houses about 5-6 fuses. I added 2 fuses myself for some wires I installed. I will probably add a fuse to every wire coming from the battery.
Need to find a new way to route that starter wire though so it doesn’t rest on the manifold.

Originally Posted by AcampoDave

The silver things are your lifters. They ride on the cam lobes and each lifter is mated to its specific cam lobe due to the wear characteristics caused by the rotation of the cam. They are not interchangeable!!! Watch this video.. https://youtu.be/N2y77vEKorI it will show you the lifters riding on the cam and operating the pushrods. The pushrods go up thru the heads to the rocker arms and open and close the valves
As you watch the animation, you will see the motor take in the blue intake charge as the cam raises the lifter which transfers the upward motion to the pushrod. The pushrod operates the rocker arm which is a fulcrum that converts the upward motion to a downward motion. This opens the valve. Next you, see the combustion happen and then you can see the the process happen again so that the exhaust valve can expell the spent gases.

Yea, I get how it works. I studied mechanics and worked/rebuilt engines a few years ago. Mainly EFI and OHC only though.
So when it comes to these older motors, still learning.
I didn’t know if the lifters were suppose to be popped out.
Thanks for clearing that up.
When it comes to carbs, only experience is from carbs on dirtbikes/quads.
When it comes to distributors, all I have worked on was an older Acura I had that seemed much more simple than this.

Originally Posted by AcampoDave

The reason the firing order must be set is because the distributor has to deliver that spark to the plug at the precise moment. The rotor must be in sinc with the operation of the valves. Therefore, upon reassembly of the motor it is imperative to reinstall the distributor and plug wires using a process that ensures the order is correct. Setting the timing is simply a way of "fine tuning" the precise instant that the firing order delivers the spark to the plug.

I am confused here, when you say set firing order, do you mean setting the timing? Or putting the spark wires in the correct cylinders?
Or something completely different?
I will do the timing right away when I start it up at first because I took the distributor out.

Originally Posted by AcampoDave

Right now, if you want to save that engine you need to vacuum all that crud outta there, and get the oil and filter changed before rotating anything. Don't crank it over or turn the balancer until then. We don't know how much extinguisher powder actually got into the motor, but I think it best to avoid spreading it around. I sure hope tthe air filter was in place when you put out the fire and with even more luck that the motor wasn't running. Again forgive me if I am treating you like a newbie, but I do get the feeling that your enthusiasm is greater than your experience. Edit: as to the carb question, I would do a compression test before making any major investments into the existing motor. It doesn't need to be running to do that.

No worries man, I appreciate all the replies and help from you.
Ok I will change the oil before doing anything to the engine.
As for the carb, the guy had a bunch of carbs listed for $50, but I called and they started out at $50 and went up. Definitely not paying $150 right now while it isn’t running.
Would it be fine doing a compression test without the intake manifold? If not, I will at least have to buy that gasket set.

Originally Posted by Mack B

Dave’s got you covered on the do’s and donts. I just wanted to express my sympathys, sir. I was hoping to open this to see you got your backfire issue fixed and saw this . Glad it wasn’t worse, hope you get it back together quick.

Thank you.
Yea, I was hoping to have it running great right now.
I thought it was going to be way worse, like the whole truck burning down.
So far I have cleaned the intake manifold and re-did one wire harness that burned. Hopefully I can do the compression test tomorrow and get forward with putting it back together.


If compression checks out good, going to rebuild the carb and set the timing upon start up and see if it runs well and fixes the backfire.

[AcampoDave]

An enginge of multiple cylinders is designed to fire them off in a specific order as each piston reaches top dead center or TDC. TDC occurs after the intake stroke when the fuel is drawn thru the intake valve. (Piston going down, cam opens intake valve, ) then the piston heads up to compress the charge. (Intake valve going shut) Bam! .... distributor has to fire the plug (TDC) then piston is forced down due to combustion. At this point a different cylinder is reaching TDC and firing which is driving our first piston back to the top of the cylinder. Only, this time, the exhaust valve is open as it rises expelling the spent charge. There is no fire to drive it down. When it goes down the intake valve is going to be open. At this point in its cycle it is dependent on the combustion of a different cylinder to maintain its momentum.... and each piston repeats the process in an order determined by its design.

[AcampoDave]

When you install the distributor you need to sync it to the motor's firing order otherwise it will be firing plugs when the pistons are at random times during the combustion cycle. Obviously firing a plug when an intake valve is open could cause a serious misfire as the combustion shoots up thru the carb. (Maybe even start a fire). The sb Chevy firing order, is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. Number one is front right as you view the motor with 2 being front left. 3 is second right 4 is second left etc....There are probably tons of YouTube vids about installing the sbc distributor and bringing the motor to #1 TDC. So I'm going to refer you to those and also see if the other readers of this thread care to chime in.

[1Loud63PU]

Whoa! Thanks for the very informative post Dave.
The firing order you mentioned is what is stamped on the intake manifold.
I will look at some of those videos to see how exactly the distributor goes on.

I checked the compression today hope the numbers are good!
This was with the intake manifold off and the engine cold with outside temperature around 60°.

Cylinder 8, which would not instantly boil water that was poured on the header was at
120 PSI.

I also checked cylinder 2, water would instantly boil off if poured on the header, this cylinder also had 120 PSI.

I know it’s low, but I’m guessing it’s good enough since cyl2 was fine before and it has the same psi as cyl8.

Prior to this, with the engine running, cyl8 did have spark.

So it either wasn’t getting fuel(doubt it) or it is a timing issue as you have mentioned.

[AcampoDave]

It's my understanding that the numbers can be a bit low and be ok. The main thing is that all 8 are in the same ballpark.

[Chevy Fleetside]

I know someone put an HEI in the truck but I am wondering if they used the old wires that hooked up to the old points dist. The HEI should be connected to straight 12 volts. The Pink wire from the ignition switch will work or the ACC terminal in the Fuse Box will work also. You might want to check out the wiring on that.

[Mack B]

Originally Posted by 1Loud63PU

Cylinder 8, which would not instantly boil water that was poured on the header was at 120 PSI.

So it either wasn’t getting fuel(doubt it) or it is a timing issue as you have mentioned.

While you have the intake off, I would see if there is any slack in the pushrods up and down on that cylinder. I.e. a rocker loose or flat cam lobe.

[1Loud63PU]

Originally Posted by AcampoDave

It's my understanding that the numbers can be a bit low and be ok. The main thing is that all 8 are in the same ballpark.

All cylinders around 120.

Originally Posted by Chevy Fleetside

I know someone put an HEI in the truck but I am wondering if they used the old wires that hooked up to the old points dist. The HEI should be connected to straight 12 volts. The Pink wire from the ignition switch will work or the ACC terminal in the Fuse Box will work also. You might want to check out the wiring on that.

I will check wiring right now.
The distributor has 2 wires that go to it.
1 wire comes from inside the cabin and other wire comes from the starter.

Originally Posted by Mack B

While you have the intake off, I would see if there is any slack in the pushrods up and down on that cylinder. I.e. a rocker loose or flat cam lobe.

I checked that, seemed good.


I cleaned the carb and put everything back together but it won’t start.
Pretty sure I didn’t put the distributor in correctly.

I saw a video online and did what it showed in the video.
Stuff small napkin into cylinder 1 spark plug
Rotate engine till the napkin is pushed out by compression.
Line up mark on Crank pulley with timing mark on front engine cover.
Drop distributor in with rotor pointing at cylinder 1.

Sound right?
Dropping the distributor in with just the rotor pointing to cyl1 doesn’t seem like an effective way to put it in, but I don’t know much of this.

The timing marks on the engine side have 3 points, and a 4th point off to the side.
The third point in the group of the 3 points, looks like it has a small line going through it. That’s where I lined up the crank pulley timing mark.
As seen in the picture.