Help with 700r4 connector info...please

[made2drag]

I bought a 77 K5 and it has a 350 and a 700r4.

The 700r4 has a clear/white connector on the driver side facing up.

Does this effect drivability?

What does it do?

Do I need it?

It drives fine and im wondering if I can just not worry about it?

Will my transmission tear up if I don't connect something to this?

[made2drag]

[made2drag]

I found this pic on Google images. Im wondering if the connector has something to do passing gear or regulating pressure or something?

[Rickysnickers]

That connector is used for locking up the torque convertor.

[grillzy]

Thought it was the connector that down shifts the transmission when you step on the brake.

[Oydllay]

Yes, that connector is how the computer electrically controls the lock up of the computer. Technically you can run without it but due to the hydraulics of a 700-R4, when you are in 4th gear the cooler flow is greatly diminished. Also, without the converter locked up in 4th, it will generate more heat due to the mechanical disadvantage of the overdrive ratio. Think about how hard that 10 speed bike was to pedal up grades in high gears. You will eventually overheat the trans and believe me they don't like that. B&M makes a nice adjustable control for this based on vehicle speed. Not as good as a factory computer but plenty adequate. You can also just wire it to a switch to manually engage it but it requires you to remember to throw it when you shift 4th. There are other similar products out there but that is the one I have used with the best result. You can also remove the TCC solenoid, drop a steel 5/16 ball in it and put it back in. This method works with no wires needed. However, this only works if your trans has a TCC shift valve. After 1988,or so, they eliminated it from the valve body. Without the shift valve and a plugged solenoid the results are less than fun to drive!

[Irish1941]

Yes you need it. TV cable is key to making them working right.
Way more typing than I handle right now.
http://www.phoenixtrans.com/tech/
This is my only source when it comes to 700R4
Greg is a zen master and very nice guy.
Call or email your questions.

[kwmech]

If it was wired correctly inside the pan, and you have just the one wire it needs to go to an ignition only source for the convertor lock up

[made2drag]

Thanks guys! I have been looking at the Lock Up Kits which have a pressure switch to activate the 12 volts coming from your cab to energize the solenoid. I see now that the solenoid pushes an internal clutch and locks the converter to flexplate to keep it from free spinning. I keep hearing people say it will be fine unless I drive hours of highway speed at a time. I don't mind spending the money and making it right but its mainly the fact that the last owner was kind of sketchy and who knows what he installed when he dropped the pan. He replaced the converter also. Im not one to try to make things harder by opening stuff up and tinkering in areas im not versed in. He says it's just a Oriellys stock 700r4 torque converter he put in there. I guess I need to know what locks what. Is it possible he put a "non Locking" torque converter in there? Is the part that locks in between the pump and TC or in the TC?

[made2drag]

I can install the switch and all the stuff in the kit. Theyre like 60-100 bucks. Just wondering if it's needed or just extra bonus stuff

[made2drag]

Ok, and update. I have a 6ykm-y-00258537 stamp on my 700r4 above the pan. I did some digging and it's a 86 and from what I've read the 82,83,84 700r4's will burn up if the lock up isn't used since if it isn't locked up it blocks some kind of oil movement in the valve body. I read that 85 and up wont burn up if left unplugged but obviously locking up the converter drops your rpm's and increases gas mileage and should make your trans last longer. So I found a link that decodes the 6ykm to the exact car this came out of. 86 5.0 v8 "b" car wagon. here's the link which has year by year changes:

http://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/...gs/TH700R4.pdf

I read 82,83,84's have 27 spline and are weaker than the 85 and up 30 spline and the burning up part is an FYI-do your own research kind of thing before you run unplugged.

[kwmech]

You do not want to run unplugged. You need to power the plug so the convertor will lock up in 4th gear to keep the heat down

[Oydllay]

I second that. Do not run without the converter plugged in! You will seriously overheat the fluid when in overdrive range. It doesn't matter what year it is. Yes the 30 spline is much stronger than the 27. But, as a matter of comparison, the 200-4R in the Buick Grand nationals is also a 27 spline. It shares the same converter with a 27 spline 700-R4. We ran a lot of power through those little shafts. That being said. I prefer the 30 spline!

[Oydllay]

Also, the part that locks is in the converter. There is a clutch plate connected the the tubine that gets pushed up against the converter body effectively locking them together. Now the converter spins as one assy. There is no slippage. The clutch plate is controlled by the flow direction of the fluid thru the converter. Inside the pump there is a valve that is hydraulically controlled by the solenoid. On makes it move one way, off it moves the other way. This valve changes the direction of flow in the converter and by doing so, the lock up clutch. If you put a converter in without a clutch, this valve gets changed to keep it from reversing flow and allowing full cooler flow at all times. You can run a clutchless converter and new flow/apply valve but you will need a serious cooler in series with your radiator one. Possibly with a dedicated fan. A temp gauge would also be recommended. 200 degrees is the magic number where it all starts to go bad!

[made2drag]

ok, thanks. Im planning on a toggle switch to activate the solenoid when Im driving above 40 mph. toggle and run it thru a suburban brake switch with cruise control prongs to cancel the lock up during braking. Ive looked at the external lock up kits and will get one eventually. This is a once a month driver and mostly driving 20 mins at a time.

[made2drag]

Does anyone have a link for an external kit that isn't from the bowtie site?

[made2drag]

the clutchless converter seems the best route. The guy before me bought a new converter because the one that was on it was stuck and the eng wouldn't turn over. I crawled under to look and all I can tell you is it's blue. lol

[Oydllay]

Yeah, that's perfectly fine as long as you mind the switch. You may find you can just leavethe switch on too. An 86 trans should still have a converter clutch shift valve that essentially will shift the converter in and out like a fifth gear. The timing of it may not be perfect but it will allow you to cruise without constantly having to fiddle with the switch. If you get a Trans-go full 700 shift kit, it has springs in it to tune the shift valve for just such a setup. The brake switch settup will work fine to disengage it when braking. Use it to break the 12 volt supply during braking. Clutchless converters are never the best option. I mean why have the capability and not use it? It was an easy fix in the early days and better suited for light street rod vehicles or race cars. You are obviously putting in an overdrive for its benefits. Why not use it to its full potential? Also, a "stuck" converter would not stop an engine from cranking. He had some other problem. The input shaft of the trans would still be free to spin. It would, however, stall when put into gear.

[made2drag]

Originally Posted by Oydllay

Yeah, that's perfectly fine as long as you mind the switch. You may find you can just leavethe switch on too. An 86 trans should still have a converter clutch shift valve that essentially will shift the converter in and out like a fifth gear. The timing of it may not be perfect but it will allow you to cruise without constantly having to fiddle with the switch. If you get a Trans-go full 700 shift kit, it has springs in it to tune the shift valve for just such a setup. The brake switch settup will work fine to disengage it when braking. Use it to break the 12 volt supply during braking. Clutchless converters are never the best option. I mean why have the capability and not use it? It was an easy fix in the early days and better suited for light street rod vehicles or race cars. You are obviously putting in an overdrive for its benefits. Why not use it to its full potential? Also, a "stuck" converter would not stop an engine from cranking. He had some other problem. The input shaft of the trans would still be free to spin. It would, however, stall when put into gear.

Ok, thanks for all your wisdom as this info is very hard to find on my searches. The last owner was full of stories, so im not sure why he really changed the TC but it sure looks new.

Since I finally found someone with real world advice.... you're saying I can run a hot from my fuse box (hot with key) and put an inline fuse, then toggle switch straight to the correct positive pin on the connector and then I can run a ground from the negative pin on the connector back up to the brake switch. I can leave the toggle on and it will have 12v ready for the solenoid to activate automatically when it goes to 4th and the brake switch will break the ground loop? That sure sounds like the way to go.

Again, this has been a big help, thanks

[made2drag]

My main objective is to keep the transmission from burning up. I really could care less about the OD function...it's nice, but this k5 is going to be traveling maybe 30 miles a month and probably 55 mph. I have a couple trucks that I rarely drive and this one will likely only be driven between March and October and might reach 500 miles a year. Im actually happy with the th350 in my 86 c10.

[made2drag]

Originally Posted by Oydllay

Yeah, that's perfectly fine as long as you mind the switch. You may find you can just leavethe switch on too. An 86 trans should still have a converter clutch shift valve that essentially will shift the converter in and out like a fifth gear. The timing of it may not be perfect but it will allow you to cruise without constantly having to fiddle with the switch. If you get a Trans-go full 700 shift kit, it has springs in it to tune the shift valve for just such a setup. The brake switch settup will work fine to disengage it when braking. Use it to break the 12 volt supply during braking. Clutchless converters are never the best option. I mean why have the capability and not use it? It was an easy fix in the early days and better suited for light street rod vehicles or race cars. You are obviously putting in an overdrive for its benefits. Why not use it to its full potential? Also, a "stuck" converter would not stop an engine from cranking. He had some other problem. The input shaft of the trans would still be free to spin. It would, however, stall when put into gear.

Could I just do this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFiKswiTMJU I see the pressure switch sees the pressure rise and sends 12 volts to activate the solenoid but does the lock up disengage when pressure goes back low like stopping at a stop sign?

[Oydllay]

Yes, that's a very simple way to make it work. A word of experience though. Because there is no vacuum switch or speed sensing, when the switch is on and you hit 4th, the converter clutch will apply immediately following the shift. Things can get kinda funky if you are under any kind of load. You can alleviate that by turning off the switch until you want converter clutch but, believe me, you are gonna get sick of hitting that switch all the time! Again, your trans should have a TCC shift valve in it that has the final say on when it locks up. Regardless of the switch position. Try it and see how it goes. Back in the day, I used to tune that shift valve with different springs to make it shift like a 5th gear. It was nice because it only locked up under cruise and would disengage under load. It's a lot of trial and error and something you probably don't want to play with. If you're good at electrical you could use a couple relays and wire it to your horn button. One push for on and push again for off! Cool eh?!

[made2drag]

Originally Posted by Oydllay

Yes, that's a very simple way to make it work. A word of experience though. Because there is no vacuum switch or speed sensing, when the switch is on and you hit 4th, the converter clutch will apply immediately following the shift. Things can get kinda funky if you are under any kind of load. You can alleviate that by turning off the switch until you want converter clutch but, believe me, you are gonna get sick of hitting that switch all the time! Again, your trans should have a TCC shift valve in it that has the final say on when it locks up. Regardless of the switch position. Try it and see how it goes. Back in the day, I used to tune that shift valve with different springs to make it shift like a 5th gear. It was nice because it only locked up under cruise and would disengage under load. It's a lot of trial and error and something you probably don't want to play with. If you're good at electrical you could use a couple relays and wire it to your horn button. One push for on and push again for off! Cool eh?!

Thanks!
I ordered my kit from Superior. It has the pressure switch and fittings and I bought a toggle and 4 pin pigtail. I think all I have to find out now is which 2 on the connector goes to the solenoid and which 2 will be unused. The rest will be easy to wire up and i'll try leaving the toggle switch on the "on" position and see how it goes. I'll get this done in next 7 days and let you know. This thread might help someone else searching on the board.

[Oydllay]

I hope so. Hope it helps you too. IIRC, you need pins A and B. A is your 12v from the switch and B is the ground for the solenoid. Please let me know how it works!

[BHTH]

Originally Posted by made2drag

Does anyone have a link for an external kit that isn't from the bowtie site?

These guys provided me one when I put an 86 700r4 behind a flathead ford.

https://www.facebook.com/BendtsensSpeedGems