Big Trucks and GVWR / Registration

[HomeMadeSin]

Ok, I’ve done a few searches already but didn’t see anything here. In addition to finally moving ahead on my 1967 C20, I’ve got a serious itch for the 50’s trucks. And there are some cool big rigs out there. But from what little I know, the 10,000 lb GVWR limit can trigger some considerable headaches. Such as having to get a Federal DOT number, additional fees, higher insurance (I guess) and driver time limits and even a medical examiners inspection.

So while it would be easier to stay in the 1T and smaller, I’m curious as to what owners do for the 1.5 and 2T rigs. I’ve seen the write up on the ‘52 build on an S-10 frame, but didn’t read all 83 pages: might’ve missed something there. Certainly, that and the other similar builds can’t be all maintaining driver logs and daily inspection forms....right? What am I missing?

Z

[1project2many]

All of the rules you're speaking of apply to commercial vehicles. For non-commercial vehicles which don't carry passengers it's a different world. What constitutes a commercial vehicle is sometimes heavily debated, but there are very clear rules available around the GVW: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retriev...e49.5.382_1103

Commercial motor vehicle means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the vehicle

(1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or

(2) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 or more pounds), whichever is greater; or

(3) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or

(4) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act (49 U.S.C. 5103(b)) and which require the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR part 172, subpart F).

If your big truck is 1) Not registered to a business and not furthering a business enterprise in any way, 2) less than 26,001 lbs, 3) Not towing a vehicle in excess of 10,000 lbs, and 4) not carrying hazmat or more than 15 people, then you are not required to follow the rules you have heard about.

[mikebte]

^^^^^^^^^
What said here is spot on, check your local laws, some states require “not for hire” be placed on the vehicle. I like to think with a 50s truck they would know better, but better safe than sorry.

[_Ogre]

in most states you can downgrade the gvw
just don't haul loads over the licensed gvw

[HomeMadeSin]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

All of the rules you're speaking of apply to commercial vehicles.....<snip>

Thanks for the confirmation. My use would be commercial (potentially)so it looks like the extra requirements are required. When I went to the FMSCA site, it asked if I was hauling commercial items (which I took as parcel transfer)or hauling people (also not doing). Most sites state simply if owned by a business and over 10,000 lbs you must go through the hoops previously mentioned.

Essentially, I want to use the bed as a mobile training unit for scaled-down industrial equipment. No “goods transfer” and no passengers per se.

Thanks again. Time to look at each requirement.

Z

[HomeMadeSin]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

in most states you can downgrade the gvw
just don't haul loads over the licensed gvw

This really has my interest, especially if the rig is lowered / modified (but that likely triggers other issues). It seems that re-rating GVWR can be feasible in one state but once you cross a state line, you are subject to that state’s laws, which is based on the mfg rating.

Z

[mr48chev]

You HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT YOUR STATE SAYS you cannot go by what some yahoo says on some board including this one of what some BS artist says on Facebook.

Most states will indeed let you pick a lower gross tonnage rating which lowers the fee for the tonnage. That also lowers what you are allowed to haul My 77 dualie was licensed for a lower rate and I had to raise it to 10K to be able to haul anything as the truck weighs 8 k with the hoist and 10 ft flatbed.

I'm thinking the truck and it's equipment have to comply with the gross vehicle rating on the tag on the door post even if you license it for less tonnage. The equipment has to be there to comply but you don't have to be licensed for more tonnage than you plan to carry.

I found this that basically says that in Georgia you have to meet the federal regs with the truck https://dps.georgia.gov/sites/dps.ge...%20Vehicle.pdf

I also found this which say for hire (haul stuff for others for pay) as apposed to only hauling your own stuff or not getting paid to haul. https://www.511ga.org/static/commercialdriver.html

[1project2many]

Most sites state simply if owned by a business and over 10,000 lbs you must go through the hoops previously mentioned.

Well, here's where the debated part of "Commercial vehicle" comes into play. Some state DOT guys are fairly reasonable. If you're using your truck to go to shows, for example, and not making money, then you might be allowed to make that trip without the DVIR or the driver log completed. But the feds? No luck. If your commercial vehicle has a sign with the business name, and you volunteer to use it to carry walkers to the elderly for the local church on Sunday, you're furthering that commercial enterprise by promoting your business through that action. I've even heard them say any paved parking lot that isn't gated is considered a public road for the sake of busting someone operating a commercial vehicle without a CDL. So even though I may disagree with their perspective, I believe you will be safest by researching and following the requirements.

BTW, "downgrading" the GVW in many states does not change the requirements for the truck. If the truck is rated at #26,001 on the body tag then it's CDL license time. If you register it for a lower weight to save $$ then it falls on you to ensure you do not exceed that weight.

[HomeMadeSin]

Yep, that’s the conclusion I’m at. Thankfully, it’s ‘just’ 16,000 lbs GVWR.

[whitedog76]

Like other posters said, it all depends on your State DMV.

A co-worker of mine bought a Kenworth T-800 and plated it with RV/Motorhome plates. (I drove it home for him since he didn’t have a CDL) Anyhow, his plans for it were to build a show truck, which he has done.

[_Ogre]

my 56 chevy 6400 48 passenger school bus/rv conversion had a car plate
drove it thru 40+ states without ever getting questioned

[burnin oil]

A little late but I hope this helps someone down the line. You can down rate the trucks GVW but the DOT will still consider it at what the truck was originally rated at. For private use you will not need a DOT number or fuel sticker nor run a log book. Anything at 26,001 pounds (truck or combo truck and trailer) needs the driver to have a CDL according to the Feds. There are a few exceptions to this but the only one people will see is an RV is exempt unless their state requires a RV CDL liscense (rare). You can have a CDL and not have a medical card but it takes checking the right box on the self certification form as long as you are not running commerce out of state and qual another requirement.

I have a 5500 dodge that is tagged for 38k lbs to carry a heavy trailer. This is where laws get really funny. Your style of hitch dictates the tags. One way you pay for the entire combination like a semi and the other lets you tag for what is on the truck and the trailer tag carries the remainder. That said, I do have a CDL to haul my own junk as I am over 26k pounds but the wife can drive it when hauling the RV. Only I can haul the heavy flat bed loads. I do not have a DOT number, fuel stamp, or log book as I am not required to. I am the way less than 1% that are not a commercial vehicle which the laws are written for. Also the guy cutting grass and using an F150 to haul the mowers technically needs a CDL and the DOT number, as does the kid delivering pizza in his Honda. The are constituted as commerce.

Ironically I have a 51 Mack road tractor with antique tags. Since it is an antique I am not required to have a CDL, even with it having air brakes. Once again no DOT number, fuel stamp, or log book required. Insurance is the hard part. there are a few companies out there such as Gulfway that will insure big trucks. One or two will let you haul a trailer as long as there is no living quarters. None will let you insure an old wrecker that I know of since it can easily be used to make some side cash. At least that is the insurances line.