SkinnyG's '61 Apache

[SkinnyG]

Is it that it now has engine braking in all the gears, or what? I've never driven one; it just seemed like a good idea.

[The Rocknrod]

Yes it does.

[SkinnyG]

I waited WEEKS for my TH400 direct piston to arrive so I could run 6 clutches.

Did a wack of research, did some measuring, followed someone's advice, and discovered that my late 4L80E bonded direct piston is 0.675" tall. To run 6, I'd can only machine the TH400 piston down to 0.625", but I'd still need to run thinner steels (maybe all .077's instead of .092's, maybe a couple .060's as well) to get the right clearance.

That, then, is the debate: Do I stuff in an extra clutch for 20% more grip at the potential cost of 17% less heat resistance?

I'm thinking it's not worth it. In a 4000lb 2wd 60's pickup with 650rwhp on 8" tires and zero traction control.

5 clutches are well known to handle 1000hp just fine....

Grrr. Over-thinking. Just like buying the cam at the bottom of the page.

[SkinnyG]

A wack of research, a wack of reference material, me staring at the TH400 piston I machined too small, and a wack of clutch-assemble/measure/disassemble/change/repeat only to receive a butt kicking....

Somehow, between yesterday and today, with nothing more than a "let's have another look here" disassemble/mic/reassemble, I now have a direct clutch pack with 0.060" clearance (yay) using six 0.077" forward steels and six 0.080" frictions (double yay), on the bonded piston.

Not sure what happened, but here I am. I will stop measuring and just blindly reassemble. Maybe hang the ruined TH400 piston on the wall.

[SkinnyG]

The rear axle appears to be out of ~1980 Ford Econoline Van. It has 3.50 gears.

Pumpkin is removed:



Detroit TrueTrac (helical "Torsen" style differential) is purchased:



Timkin carrier bearings are installed:



Ring gear boiled and hot, slipped onto frozen carrier to aid in reassembly:



This is when I discovered the old diff is also a Trac-Loc "clutch" type limited slip (with no "limited," but extra "slip"), and the ring gear bolts are too long. And they look stretched. So new ARP bolts ordered and installed (ARP recommends 85ft-lbs).

This is a semi-hunting gearset, and the ring and pinion must be "keyed" together. Luckily there are marks:





Diff installed, carrier bearing preload set by turning in the adjuster until you see the outer bearing race just move, then turn each adjuster ONE hole more. Then adjust backlash (spec is 0.010-0.016"). I measured 0.016" when I took it apart, I set it to 0.015" on reassembly. Carrier Bearing caps are torqued to 80ft-lbs.



Now just need a slather of Permatex Ultra Black on the sealing surface, axles in, and some Redline 75W90NS GL5 goes in.

[The Rocknrod]

Man I sure love the 9 inch and miss it.

[jmarkha1]

Good result on the TH400 piston setup.
Installing the ring gear in the kitchen - brave man :-)
I remember using the dishwasher to clean a vw autobox casing - just the once...

[C10matt]

This thing is coming along nice.

[SkinnyG]

Direct drum is in. Forward drum is in. Pumpkin is in.

[SkinnyG]

MOD 6: Dual-Feed Direct Clutch (Part 2)

I removed the center lip seal in the drum, which is part of dual-feeding the Direct apply piston. This removes the separation between the Direct and Reverse sections of the apply piston.



MOD 7: 6-Clutch Direct

Lots of internet opinion between running a TH400 direct piston, vs just keeping the 4L80E bonded piston. I kept the bonded piston, tossed the wave plate, and squeezed in six frictions by using six 0.077" forward steels. Clearance ended up a perfect 0.060" (0.010" per clutch).



MOD 8: Rollerized Forward Hub

The Direct Drum is pretty sloppily supported. We are going to reduce the slop, and add a Torrington to better support the Drum.

Following Interweb advice....

To do this, the Forward Hub "shoulder" gets machined to fit Ford AOD Torrington bearing (I used 1F1Z-7F404-AA). The "shoulder" is machined down: (bearing thickness) minus (original thrust bushing thickness) minus (about 0.030" clearance reduction), which in my case should have been 0.050", which I thought I initially cut. I may not have.



Now, you also need to know that Direct Drum to Forward Hub clearance should be 0.003-0.008" when rollerized. I'm not exactly sure how to measure this, you can't exactly get a dial indicator in there. Machining the shoulder more, should move the Forward Hub closer to the Direct Drum. With what I had initially cut, there was a noticeable amount of drum-to-hub play. I also ended up with ZERO front end play in the trans.

I don't know if this is correct, but I measured the distance from the Direct Hub to the mainshaft, and got 1.911"



I installed the forward bearing (0.143" thick) and got 1.933"



Again: I don't know what I'm doing.

The difference was 0.022", and in my head it made sense to cut 0.017" more off the Forward Hub (0.005" clearance), which makes NO sense to me right now. But this gave me 0.010" front end play in the trans, which is bang on what I wanted (.005" more than the rear). I hope this works.

NOTE: The 0.050" cut will get you in the ball park. You really need to assemble the trans and check the Front End play, and machine the shoulder to get the end play where you want it.


Front end play should be 0.002-0.005" GREATER than the rear end play (if you are NOT lifting the output shaft to take up rear end play).

4th clutch installed:



Overdrive installed:



MOD 9: Overdrive Lube Feed

Overdrive lube hole drilled out to 1/8":



MOD 10: Converter Charge Line

Drilling a 0.050" hole provides the converter with charge oil regardless of pressure regulator. This will increase pressure in the converter, and more oil drain back.



MOD 11: Converter Oil Drainback

The existing drain might not be large enough for the increased oil, so we'll drill it out to 1/4".



MOD 12: Pressure Regulator & Boost Valve

This is just remove and replace. I used the one in my TransGo kit. Allegedly Sonnax is more desirable, but my interweb research suggests it really doesn't matter which one you use. This was annoying to install.



Pump installed:



Rear seal inserted ONLY enough to allow the snap ring to snap into place (makes sure oil gets to rear case bushing).



Extension Housing installed.



Next, I'll be getting into the valvebody with some changes.

[SkinnyG]

My references for what I'm doing:

Articles taken from Gears Magazine (issues on their website):

4L80-rollerize-output-and-center-support

4L80-rollerize-carrier

Threads referenced for the build:

Bob Is The Oil Guy: 4L80E

Bob Is The Oil Guy: 4L80E Rebuild Questions That Have Not Been Answered

[SkinnyG]

Latest Video:

HOW TO Install a Limited Slip Differential -...

[SkinnyG]

Now things become smoke and mirrors:

[Paul Y]

I don’t know, step away from the keyboard for a few minutes and Skinny goes from banging body panels and using a blaster to whittling bits of tin and using his best measuring squint.

Enjoyed the video.

Now let’s see some burnouts on the way to get ice cream.

P.

[SkinnyG]

Borrowed a friend's kit to re-machine the Actuator Feed Limit valve and insert a new and more wear-resistant valve, a common issue with 4L80E's.

Also ordered up a new Torque Converter Clutch regulator valve as well. They're cheap, and I'm in there.

[SkinnyG]

I reamed the AFL valve more to fit the new (larger) TransGo valve (Thanks Darcy!).

I also did all the mods in the valve body and separator plate required for the Sonnax Over Running Clutch Valve (which applies said clutch for when you forget to drop out of Square-D (Overdrive). Good safety insurance, because I'm getting old and forgetful. VERY nice product, and super clear instructions.

Reassembled the valve body with the remainder of the parts from the TransGo HD2 kit. I drilled 2nd to 0.093" and 3rd and 4th to 0.101". Did not install, as I am waiting for the TCC valve.

Also drove in the 3/8" cup plug to block the reverse feed to the Direct Clutch. I did NOT use the HD2 separator, I dual-fed internally (remove 2nd seal from center support, remove center seal from direct drum, and plug reverse feed).

[jkeating1]

Can’t wait to see how this transmission acts in operation.

[SkinnyG]

Me too!

The TCC valve arrived today, so I should be able to finish it all up this weekend, maybe get it on the motor and back in the chassis. I have most of the video edited (still need to narrate it), got 20hours of video down to 30 minutes with enough detail to be useful.

[SkinnyG]

TCC valve came in, so I installed it.

Installed the valvebody.

Installed the Overrun Clutch Valve.

Finished the valvebody, but forgot to get a filter.

[SkinnyG]

Picked up a filter, attached the pan, and a spray of Aluminum engine paint.





Tomorrow - hang it off the motor, and set it in the chassis.

[SkinnyG]

Latest Video:

HOW TO: Fully Rollerize a 4L80E - YouTube

[SkinnyG]

The driveshaft got painted. Bear's Performance out of Ontario, 1350 u-joints:

[88Stanger]

Damn SkinnnyG you are the MAN! Thank you for all the detail and vids on all this stuff, that is just awesome!!!

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 88Stanger

Damn SkinnnyG you are the MAN! Thank you for all the detail and vids on all this stuff, that is just awesome!!!

x2.

[SkinnyG]

Cab placed on the chassis for hopefully the last time. Energy Suspension cab mounts (63-66) with front top bushing machined down to 5/8" thick as per original bushing. PQY fuel pressure regulator mounted.