Borgeson Steering Box

[Wgesnerjr]

So I used the original steering box form 1985 on my resto. I know I should have gone and replaced it then, but had to save some money towards other items the truck desperately needed. (like exhaust system) I think the truck had 95K miles so I cleaned it up, painted and put it back on. I ran the LS PS pump that came with my engine.

my theory was if it failed, I would replace it.

Well for the last 10K since the trucks been back on the road, it has worked fine enough. The steering was way loose even though I rebuilt the rag joint and tightened up the steering column. All the linkage was new MOOG parts and aligned but it still liked to follow the ruts in the road and wandered all over the place at highway speeds. Huge dead spot in the middle too. When turning the wheel, there was a slight "grittyness" feeling, so I knew its days were numbered. however it still turned the big 295/50/15 so, I let it ride.

Lately I have been finding puddles under the truck and they have gotten big enough that something has to be done. So today my buddies and I took a ride down to Summit Racing in McDonough and I was the big spender at just under $500. But I came home with this...brand spanking new (not rebuilt) Borgeson steering Box! https://www.summitracing.com/parts/b...0#applications

[Wgesnerjr]

Good thing is NO core charge. Looks like it will be much tighter steering than stock and hopefully the truck will track a little straighter. Might have install time tomorrow but more than likely next weekend. I will post back with results.

[LT7A]

Thanks for posting, I'll be interested to hear. I have a replacement AGR box on one truck that does not perform as advertised and the original one I bought from them was faulty too. Two strikes and they're out as far as I'm concerned. However, redhead is local to me and will probably get my business going forward. But it is good to know that there is a source of brand new components like this and from what you said it is an upgrade as well. I hope it tightens it up for you.

[kglowacky]

I have posted my challenges with the same problems (see my thread for details) .

[1957 Chief]

I have one on my LS swapped truck. Absolutely love it.

Bubba

[greenmtnboy]

Borgeson has always had a top notch reputation in the Street Rod industry for Vega Boxes and steering shafts compared to the “bargain” competitors. Interested to see how you like it.

[Jeepwm69]

Originally Posted by LT7A

Thanks for posting, I'll be interested to hear. I have a replacement AGR box on one truck that does not perform as advertised and the original one I bought from them was faulty too. Two strikes and they're out as far as I'm concerned. However, redhead is local to me and will probably get my business going forward. But it is good to know that there is a source of brand new components like this and from what you said it is an upgrade as well. I hope it tightens it up for you.

AGR made great stuff years ago. Then they changed leadership and went downhill.

IIRC, the guy who started PSC left AGR and started PSC, which coincidentally was when AGR went down the tubes.

Didn't know Borgeson made boxes, but I do have one of their steering shafts on one of my Jeeps. Great quality on the steering shaft.

[Wgesnerjr]

UPDATE
I did the install Saturday afternoon. Pretty straight forward with no issues except ITS HEAVY. The fluid input and output on the box was for o-ring set ups, which I was already running and the steering input lined right up with the rag joint. A bunch of heavy lifting and 4 bolts and it was installed. Only thing I should have done is run a tap through the screw holes in the box. One bolt was a little tight but eventually went in.

Changed the fluid in the reservoir and it took a while to get the bubbles out of the system. Turned the wheel back and forth with wheels off the ground, added fluid, turned wheels again, repeat. Set on the ground, cleaned up and was called to dinner.

After sitting for about 2 hrs. No more noise and I finally got to do a test run after dark. BOY, what a difference! Steering is much tighter. No more dead spot. No more wandering. No more mushy feeling. No more gritty feeling. AND no piddle spots in my driveway.

Before the box, I had been messing with tire pressures to lessen the wandering. I found that 30-33 psi was good to keep it in my lane without too much over-correction. Meaning, I could briefly look at the gauges or radio with getting over the lines.

After the box I have the tires at 35 psi and very good and straight, no wandering. Finally took it on the highway and found it tracked very well needed minimal input to stay in my lane even with the 295/50R15 tires. Its no Rack and Pinon, but its feels like a new car would feel like in the 70s & 80s. Also noticed the vibration I had been fighting was less noticeable. (I still think the Cooper Corbras are to blame)

So I am really impressed with the box and would recommend. There is no core charge with the Borgeson and it comes painted black. Just install and go. Downside=expensive.

Borgeson does offer a collapsible steering shaft with u-joints at both ends. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/brg-000935?rrec=true
That would have been my next stop if the box didn't work out.

[Rich84]

Did you find the steering to be tighter. Steering wheel harder to turn?
I just put a Red Head box in. It corrected all the same issues you were having, but it is quite "stiff'. I am getting used to it. It also reduced a vibration that I was getting from 45-52 mph.

[Wgesnerjr]

Steering was much tighter in my case. I did notice there was almost no dead spot in the middle, but after the old box, anything would have felt twitchy. It took me a few miles to reprogram my brain to stop over-correcting. Now it just feels good and normal.

It is less turns lock to lock then the old one. But I have been too impressed with it tracking straight to notice if it felt more "sporty".

As far as harder to turn, both boxes felt the same. But I am turning massive front tires. Its not soft like an old Caddy, but more stiff like an IROC-Z. Nothing close to manual steering.

Hope that helps.

[LT7A]

Looks tidy. Thanks for the report back.

[Pontiac1976]

Looks great, Glad to hear the feel is good now and it factory style set up work good like new. Good job doing the fix all the way throw the parts. I hope you get 20year out her.

[Already Gone]

Thanks for the posting the info. I bought one along with the rag joint figuring it would be a good product. Can't wait to get it installed along with their power steering pump and hoses which I have as well.

[Wgesnerjr]

I think you're going to like it. Every time I drive mine, I'm impressed.

I did notice that the upper joint on the steering shaft does give a little. Saw it while turning the steering wheel with the truck off. while running it does not defect that much.

If it gets bad, I will get the steering shaft. But for now, I am happy with it.

Post back your thoughts after install.

[Dieselwrencher]

I was just looking at one of these for a customer's truck since the redhead boxes seem to have issues lately.

[Thealien]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

I was just looking at one of these for a customer's truck since the redhead boxes seem to have issues lately.

What issues are you having with the Red Head Steering boxes? I have used two of them over the past 10 to 15 years and didn’t have any issues with them. Might be buying a steering box for the four-wheel-drive blazer and if there’s issues I may look elsewhere.

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by Thealien

What issues are you having with the Red Head Steering boxes? I have used two of them over the past 10 to 15 years and didn’t have any issues with them. Might be buying a steering box for the four-wheel-drive blazer and if there’s issues I may look elsewhere.

I've had 3 different customers that have had issues with excessive slop in them. They were in 2nd gen dodges, but still. Redhead's warranty process was a huge PITA for these guys. They had to take the trucks to a shop and have the shop deem the box was bad before they would deal with it.

[Bloodhound]

That's too bad, I've been very impressed with the quality of the Redhead boxes.

[Dieselwrencher]

Yeah, I always was too. I've probably installed 20 on 2nd gen dodges over the years. Those trucks have got to be one of the top trucks with steering issues I swear.

[Bacca]

I have the Borgenson on my '82 and love it. The 12.7 quick ratio is worth the price of admission alone. The ability to maneuver in tighter spots along with the quick response at speed is awesome. I've got almost 11,000 miles on mine.

[pjmoreland]

I ordered a Borgeson 800132 from Summit for my '68. It arrived today. I was inspecting it, and I noticed that the output shaft seal was installed crooked and was dented inward on the deeper side. I called Borgeson about getting a replacement seal, but they told me it needs to be sent back. Summit is sending me a replacement gearbox. Should be here tomorrow or the next day since Summit is only 100 miles from me.

[pjmoreland]

I received a replacement Borgeson steering gearbox from Summit yesterday. Spent yesterday evening and this afternoon installing it. I had to grind down several spots on the side that attaches to the frame due to clearance issues. I used a set of PICKMUP's stainless lines. Had to do some bending on them since the pressure port on the Borgeson sits significantly higher than stock. Used a Dorman 31011 rag joint. I'm very happy with how this gearbox feels when driving. It gives me about 2-1/2 turns total, as opposed to 4 with the stock gearbox.

While I was at it, I converted to a newer-style steering shaft assembly with an intermediate shaft. Seems safer than the original one-piece shaft that was in my '68. I had to use the original bearing preload spring because the newer style spring was not long enough to preload the bearings. I believe this is because the lower bearing on my '68 column is not the same as the 69+ bearing style.

[pjmoreland]

Intermediate shaft

[S10Fan]

Originally Posted by greenmtnboy

Borgeson has always had a top notch reputation in the Street Rod industry for Vega Boxes and steering shafts compared to the “bargain” competitors. Interested to see how you like it.

I have a Borgeson Vega box on my Model A pickup, couldn't be happier!

[DM72C20]

In my 72 C20 with a LS swap, I'm on my 3rd steering box in less than a year, with a Cardone that blew a seal and two locally rebuilt units including the original from the truck that have way too much play when driving straight. I can turn the wheel several inches before it responds, which is challenging when on the highway since you are always correcting. Adjusting the lash just makes it harder to steer which I had the rebuilder try. I spoke with someone at Redhead and they said that they replace the bearings in their rebuilds, sizing them to fit the worm gear wear to eliminate that. The alignment seems ok from a test drive with a competent mechanic, and he said all the rebuilt boxes are trash, which I am in agreement with. I am thinking I order the new Borgeson and be done with it for the next few decades.

Can anyone with a non Borgeson rag joint chime in about the input shaft fit? I have a new Lares 201 rag joint, which says 13/16", 31 spline. It is meant as a stock replacement for the 72' C20 and bolted right on to the stock box. The Borgeson says it needs 3/4", 30 spline but I am seeing some people say it bolted right in...