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#26 | |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: North Texas
Posts: 3,666
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Re: Gm crate engine
Quote:
https://mooregoodink.com/what-is-cor...t-detrimental/
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Mike 1969 C10 LWB -- owned for 36 years. 350/TH350, 3.08 posi, 1st Gen Vintage Air, recent AAW wiring harness, 5-lug conversion, 1985 spindles and brakes. 1982 C10 SWB -- converted from 250-six to roller cam 350, Vortec heads -- sold 1981 C10 Silverado LWB, 305, TH350C -- sold, but wish I still had it! 1969 C10 (not the current one) that I bought in the early 1980s. Paid $1200; sold for $1500 a few years later. Just a hint at the appreciation that was coming. Retired as a factory automation products salesman. Worked part-time over the years for an engine builder and a classic car repair shop. Member here for 24 years! This is the very first car/truck Internet forum I joined. I still used a dial-up modem back then! |
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#27 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Henderson NC
Posts: 975
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Re: Gm crate engine
The GM L31 or L31-R is a good choice. With a good carb and exhaust you will have around 300 hp and close to 400 ftlbs of torque. That's with the factory cam which I run and it idles really smooth with decent gas mileage. With a simple cam and valve spring swap you can get 400 hp. The vortec heads and roller cam makes a good motor for the money that can be upgraded easily if you want to.
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#28 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 775
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Re: Gm crate engine
A larger bore, .030-.040-.060 will yield more power. Casting a block with a larger bore, or machining a 350 CI block out .040, will allow more HP/TQ due to a larger piston. Combined with the heads BPE uses and cam selection they can get 400+ HP/TQ out of an otherwise mild SBC using a 220/224 cam on a 113 LSA
A .030 over bore along with a stroker crank will = 383 CI, .040 over a 396 CI which will make more HP and TQ than a 350, 355 (.030) or a 357 (.040) They have done their homework and are able to offer 50k mi warranty. My BPE is a 4 bolt main, 1 piece RMS, full roller cam motor. I replaced my 327 baby head 2 brl motor with it in my 67 Camaro. Plug & play. You just need to get a different flexplate for a rear external balanced 1-piece RMS motor but otherwise just transfer over your accessories |
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#29 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Hampton Roads VA
Posts: 643
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Re: Gm crate engine
So ill tell you my swap story:
Lowest entry ls GM performance had a year ago was the LS3. GM quote for the turn key package was $15,465+ shipping. If I wanted a modern manual (tremec 6 spd TUET16885) it would have been cost of the engine ($7848) plus $7797 for the transmission, trans control pc/harness, hydraulic pedal conversion parts, crossmember PLUS engine pc, mounts etc etc etc. It was a solid $20k plus to do that aka - out of their minds. I pulled an 03/04 LQ4 / 4l80 / 14 bolt for a couple hundred bucks. Paid a lot of money to have them all rebuilt but Ill be in it about half (with expensive stuff I didnt have to buy like a fancy accessory drive).
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70 C20 Build link : Project Montezuma http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=794479 How to repair that rusted out 67-72 c10-c30! Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/c/MaycoCustomRestorations |
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#30 | |
Who Changed This?
![]() Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Posts: 10,946
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Re: Gm crate engine
Quote:
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~Steven '70 Chevy 3/4T Longhorn CST 402/400/3.56 Custom Camper Simi Valley, CA |
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#31 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 775
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Re: Gm crate engine
BPE advertises my motor as a 355 which is a .030 over 350 block. The specs however note .040 bore so that makes it a 357. IDK if they bore the blocks they get or they are cast in that size and just machined/honed like any 350 block would be during manufacture to be native .040 larger cyl than a 350 block.
In the shop tour video they note the new castings are received and they deck them and finish the front and back of the block. Not sure what they do, if anything, to the cyl holes themselves. They have been using a foundry in Ohio but my understandings now is they are building their own as an expansion of their engine plant in Nebraska. Many of the machines they use in building the motors they designed and made themselves. That machine that puts the rings on pistons is pretty cool. Several of the assembly steps are robotic and unlike the major auto engine plants, they dyno every motor which to me adds a layer of comfort knowing the motor ran, made X power and if any sign of a problem would show during that process Having purchased a few SBC & SBF over the years from various rebuild shops, the BPE has had zero issues for me vs "something" from the others |
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#32 | |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: North Texas
Posts: 3,666
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Re: Gm crate engine
Quote:
That said, Blueprint sounds like a good company. ![]()
__________________
Mike 1969 C10 LWB -- owned for 36 years. 350/TH350, 3.08 posi, 1st Gen Vintage Air, recent AAW wiring harness, 5-lug conversion, 1985 spindles and brakes. 1982 C10 SWB -- converted from 250-six to roller cam 350, Vortec heads -- sold 1981 C10 Silverado LWB, 305, TH350C -- sold, but wish I still had it! 1969 C10 (not the current one) that I bought in the early 1980s. Paid $1200; sold for $1500 a few years later. Just a hint at the appreciation that was coming. Retired as a factory automation products salesman. Worked part-time over the years for an engine builder and a classic car repair shop. Member here for 24 years! This is the very first car/truck Internet forum I joined. I still used a dial-up modem back then! |
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#33 |
Who Changed This?
![]() Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Posts: 10,946
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Re: Gm crate engine
I was impressed with the video, and was heartened to see that one doesn't have to be ASE certified to get the warranty. I "gave up" my certs, if you will, when I graduated uni and went to work as an engineer. I never stopped working on my vehicles, though. I haven't done an engine swap in about 8 years, but it's just like falling off a bicycle, really.
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~Steven '70 Chevy 3/4T Longhorn CST 402/400/3.56 Custom Camper Simi Valley, CA |
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#34 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Diego Co.
Posts: 1,193
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Re: Gm crate engine
Subscribed. Lotsa good info here. Someday...
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1972 Chevy C-10, SWB, Fleet, 350/350, PS, PB, HEI, mostly stock, Survivor. ![]() |
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#35 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 150
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Re: Gm crate engine
When I was building my 67 I was able to buy a new never used L31 350 SBC. Been happy with my set but a 383ci would be a dream and really fit the purpose you described. Good luck and post your progress.
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#36 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 22,133
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Re: Gm crate engine
Quote:
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67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. Last edited by SCOTI; 09-26-2022 at 09:40 AM. |
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#37 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 775
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Re: Gm crate engine
these are the specs for the 355 (really 357) BPE I got. .040 bore. It notes "seasoned block" which is what normally a "crate" motor is that was "rebuilt". In my case my BPE has a "new" 350 block either cast or machined (bored) .040 over. It has "Blueprint" cast right on to block so it is a "new" block and when I asked BPE about why they say "seasoned" block in their description they said originally, they did get old blocks to rebuild but in the last few years they use new blocks cast in Ohio and just have not updated their web 411 to say so. Their shop video in the beginning describes what their SBC blocks are (gen 2 SBC)
https://blueprintengines.com/product...ads-roller-cam |
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#38 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 22,133
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Re: Gm crate engine
Quote:
That being said.... If it's indeed a 'new' casting & their website hasn't been updated, what are you actually getting? What is their actual 'as-cast' bore size standard for the SBC?
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#39 | |
Who Changed This?
![]() Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Posts: 10,946
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Re: Gm crate engine
Quote:
__________________
~Steven '70 Chevy 3/4T Longhorn CST 402/400/3.56 Custom Camper Simi Valley, CA |
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#40 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 775
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Re: Gm crate engine
Steve, more CI= more HP. Making a new block .040 over is just mirroring what they did on a rebuild combo for piston size, head/cam combo when they would take a used 350 ci block and machine it out to either .030 or .040 only in the case now they just use new cast blocks .040 over. IDK if they are cast as that size (357)_ or they actually bore a new 350 block .040 over to get the 357
starting with the original SBC, Gm 265 made x HP, 283 more, 327,350, 396, 427 were respectively more HP as standard builds BPE "advertised" HP/TQ ratings are always lower than "actuals" which are documented with a dyno sheet for every motor they make. IMHO they build a very good and reliable engine which comes with a 3yr/50k mi warranty even including cost of labor (fixed rate) to R&R a warranty claims vs just "defective parts" if a shop installed the motor I had my motor direct shipped to Rory's place, Fontana Motorsports, in Simi Valley. He installed it in my Camaro. 1st time I have ever had anyone other than me put in a motor but at the time my hands were not cooperating, so I begrudgingly had him do it. Rory is a solid guy and does good work |
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#41 |
Who Changed This?
![]() Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Simi Valley, CA
Posts: 10,946
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Re: Gm crate engine
I'm pretty clear on the relationship between cubic inches and horsepower.
__________________
~Steven '70 Chevy 3/4T Longhorn CST 402/400/3.56 Custom Camper Simi Valley, CA |
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#42 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 22,133
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Re: Gm crate engine
Doesn't make sense to overbore it from the start if it's spec'd like GM's block (4.00x3.48) as cast. That eliminates longevity on an expensive core part.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol. |
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#43 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 775
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Re: Gm crate engine
Quote:
If it is just a stock replacement motor one wants than just buy a new 350 from GMPP. small iron head valve, 350 ci, around 2xxhp vortec head motor. Some do and sell off the heads and stab a cam and put aluminum heads on those motors to get what is considered minimum HP for a fun streetcar now being 400 ish HP 2 of my hobby cars have either a 383 or 357 and at most see 3-5k mi a year so for me I will never see 100k mi on those motors...although I do have 45+k mi on my 383 but it took 17 years to put that much on it. Both run great, no leaks and no oil use. YMMV |
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#44 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: North Texas
Posts: 3,666
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Re: Gm crate engine
I suspect the TQ and HP differences between 350 and 357 are negligible. I seriously doubt they did it for power reasons. Maybe they simply had an overstock of 4.040" pistons. Don't laugh. It was not uncommon for auto manufacturers to use "leftover" parts whenever they could on next-year model production vehicles.
We're not saying you got a bad engine, only that it's unusual.
__________________
Mike 1969 C10 LWB -- owned for 36 years. 350/TH350, 3.08 posi, 1st Gen Vintage Air, recent AAW wiring harness, 5-lug conversion, 1985 spindles and brakes. 1982 C10 SWB -- converted from 250-six to roller cam 350, Vortec heads -- sold 1981 C10 Silverado LWB, 305, TH350C -- sold, but wish I still had it! 1969 C10 (not the current one) that I bought in the early 1980s. Paid $1200; sold for $1500 a few years later. Just a hint at the appreciation that was coming. Retired as a factory automation products salesman. Worked part-time over the years for an engine builder and a classic car repair shop. Member here for 24 years! This is the very first car/truck Internet forum I joined. I still used a dial-up modem back then! |
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#45 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 1,509
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Re: Gm crate engine
Based upon their own data the 355 (yes, 357) is significantly more powerful than the 350: about 10% more.
I'm inclined to believe them. It appears that they underreport the hp and torque, which is what a good company would do. I was told I was getting a 355 with about 390/410 and I got one with 414/440. I'm buying another one if the Canadian dollar is ever worth anything again. I don't go the the track, and this kind of power is more than I can reasonably be trusted with on the street.
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DAVE Edmonton, Alberta 1959 Apache 1967 K20 1968 C20 1970 C10 1972 GMC 2500 1981 C10 |
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#46 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 775
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Re: Gm crate engine
Mike
I don't know the reason why .040 pistons were what was shown in "specifications" of the particular crate motor I bought which is why "I" describe it as a 357. . It is advertised as a 355 which is a 350 ci with a .030 overbore. Blueprint builds several hundred SBC at a time and their offerings are either 355, 383 or 396. A 396 uses a .040 piston with a stroker crank. BPE sent me an email, on request, of specific parts used in the part # (engine) I ordered. "GM 4 bolt main, 1 piece RMS, bored 4.040 GM cast crank 3.48 stroke" with a relatively small cam, 220/224 on a 110 LSA and their 64cc chamber, 195cc intake/75cc runners 2:02/1:60 valve heads with 10"1 compression this motor dyno at 413 hp/411tq. All with a 30 month/50k mi warranty |
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#47 | |
68 C10 Longbed
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Naples, Florida
Posts: 519
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Re: Gm crate engine
Quote:
Motor runs great but the block is not new. |
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#48 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 1,509
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Re: Gm crate engine
Yeah, the 355s were not new: they were "seasoned" blocks. They do cast their own new 350s, now, though.
https://blueprintengines.com/product...or-bp35513ctc1
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DAVE Edmonton, Alberta 1959 Apache 1967 K20 1968 C20 1970 C10 1972 GMC 2500 1981 C10 |
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