02-12-2024, 01:06 PM | #201 | |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
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02-12-2024, 01:13 PM | #202 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
if it is an innie, not an outie, then maybe a polish would do.
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02-12-2024, 01:29 PM | #203 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
I don't see a corresponding gouge in the bearing shell so that nick is probably one that has been there since the last rebuild. If it has no raised edges maybe safe to leave it.
If it has raised edges then it probably happened recently. You might carefully polish off the edges with very fine file or some fine wet/dry sand paper wrapped tightly around something with a flat side like a nut. just be careful not to wash the junk into the bearing. Maybe a little dam of playdoh When you have the new bearing cap in place check the sealing surface at front of block lines up with the sealing surface on bearing cap. Would not want a new leak! |
02-12-2024, 09:12 PM | #204 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
you can polish the crank yourself with some very fine paper, I use the wet and dry stuff myself, starting with something like 600 or 800 grit. I use a light lube like wd40 or the crc equivalwnt that I can't remember the number or name of. clean the journal and the oil hole so you don't pick up a stray piece of crap somewhere, then spray the paper well along with the journal. cut the paper so it is the same width as the crank journal and wrap the journal with the paper. then wrap a long fat shoelace from a work boot or a skate or a long wide strip of rag (an old t shirt works well) around it and pull first on one side then the other. work the shoelace back and forth so you get full width coverage on the journal. when done clean the area with the spray lube and then use something like 1000 or 1200 grit paper for the final. same procedure. some guys will use metal poish after this step but that is overkill and usually harder to clean up. when all done use a little tube brush to clean out all the oil passages and then clean the entire crank well with dish soap and warm water and then spray the journals to get rid of the water and so they won't immediately start to show rust, then blow the crank dry and put it a new, clean plastic bag until you're ready for it. you could have it mic'd if you wish but really you had no issues with the crank before. when you assemble the engine ensure the back sides of the bearing shells are clean as well as the engine block, lay the shells and rear mai seal in place, put some assembly lube on the bearing surfaces of the shells and lay the crank in place. do the same on the bearing cap sides, install the caps, lightly tapping them into place (don't suck them down with the bolts as that can break the cap if things aren't just right), then lube the bolt threads and install them. torque up as the manual says to do it
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02-12-2024, 09:13 PM | #205 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
just found this on how to polish the crank at home. kinda the same procedure with the metal polish as a finish step.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...y9Ynr_lRDFSLuB |
02-16-2024, 01:44 PM | #206 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
Some grooves are more likely to cause trouble than others. The location and direction of the groove makes a big difference. Grooves that extend past the edges of the bearing surface bleed away the oil film which supports the crank.
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02-17-2024, 03:17 PM | #207 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
Regardless of nicks or nacks, that plastigauge reading is quite impressive.
We're talking within thousands of an inch and that plastigauge reading is that consistent around half the crankshaft. At least you can rest, knowing this project now has a positive protectory.
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02-17-2024, 07:01 PM | #208 | |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
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02-18-2024, 02:14 PM | #209 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
have you check the oil pan and timing cover/plate fitment with the new bearing cap?
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02-18-2024, 02:21 PM | #210 | |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
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I'm wondering if he's disinterested now that I amazingly found an end cap that fits properly and may not require a line bore. Although, he also mentioned wanting/needing to machine the front of the crank and harmonic balancer to support a Woodruff key due to the McCulloch supercharger. I'm gonna bug him again this week.
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02-18-2024, 02:38 PM | #211 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
sounds like its worth a call. if it's just the crank there are other machine shops that can cut a keyway for you.
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02-22-2024, 12:40 PM | #212 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
Maybe. One of the potential issues is that the bearing bore in the cap does not align with the bore in the block. If you are careful you could lay plastigage across the bearing surface as close to the cap parting line as possible to get a reading. If the plastigage is narrower at one end after compressing this may indicate the need for alignhone / alignbore.
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02-22-2024, 12:45 PM | #213 | |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
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My best friend who sold me the truck has been sending me links to small block Chevy engines saying that Summit could delver one to my house in two days....... I really want this engine with the McCulloch supercharger given how unique it will be, but I have admit the small block is getting more tempting as every week rolls by without a solution completed.
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02-22-2024, 03:31 PM | #214 | |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
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02-22-2024, 06:19 PM | #215 | |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
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Other that we discussed us doing a few others things "while we are at it" such as line boring the block, dipping the block and head, replacing all the freeze plugs, boring a hole in the head that gets tapped, and rattle can painting of the block and head. Seems these engine had a historical problem with over heating due to air in the back of the block/head. By tapping this hole, the engine can be "burped" to get all the air out. By early next week he's going to give me an estimate of cost and timing, given his other semi-retired projects.....He agreed with me that a small block would be fun and faster to get done (Summit could have one here on Monday), but he also said that my setup with the supercharger and magneto would be too cool to pass up. His only comment to me was that if the block should fail any of his tests, he'd rather not have me spend a silly amount of money to make it work, when a small block is an option.
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02-22-2024, 06:50 PM | #216 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
agreed, if the engine needs a bunch of money spent then i would simply button it up with lube etc for storage, pallet it as a complete drop back in type deal, and then (if it were me) I would install an LS engine. that will take some cash and other stuff would need to be changed too, so the small block would be the cheaper option. you could fuel inject it though so it would be a better runner and easier on gas. maybe think about getting that gas tank out of the cab and also a dual master cylinder for the brakes. if you go small block you could also swap the rear axle (also pallet the old stuff as a complete set up) with something that would give you a better highway speed or go with an automatic that has overdrive. again, more changes. whatever you do, keep the old stuff and be careful with taking it apart because one day, when you wanna sell it, that would be a great thing to have in the portfolio.
swapping in a v* with the original driveline would require a different bell housing for the V8 engine with the rear cross ember mounts like the old 6 has. you can buy new or used. then some motor mounts, exhaust manifolds and a system behind them, rad hoses, etc etc. |
02-22-2024, 07:03 PM | #217 | |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
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The idea of taking on a brand spanking new LS or small block with EFI, automatic transmission, etc sounds wonderful. The surgery to install all of it with a new bell housing, motor mounts, cross members, new rear differential sounds overwhelming, let alone the cost of all of that. I suspect if I'm going that far, I should install a new front axle with coil overs or air bags, along with for real power steering instead of my electric unit with the old steering box. That means replacing the brand new master cylinder, electric hydraulic pump, as well as four wheel disk brake setup on the existing axles. This is giving me and my wallet a headache, hopefully my engine buddy comes back as says we are good to go..............
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02-22-2024, 07:44 PM | #218 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
I hope the engine can be fixed. If the bill looks to be more than it is worth, just bolt it together and run it as-is the worst that can happen is you wreck the block - which is probably the cheapest component on your engine right now! That plastiguage result looks promising and your oil leak should be fixed.
For a different perspective and meaning no disrespect to your engine builder's experience but in my much more limited experience I don't think warped heads or coolant vapor locks are common occurrences on these engines. I can't speak to the need for an extra key in the crank nose for a supercharger, but the stock engines never had much issue with spitting the pulley off and unless you drive it hard you are not putting much additional strain over stock. With a new corvette to fill your speed needs you don't need to build this truck in that direction unless it suits you! You can also get a 'crate' rebuild of a 250 or 292 inline 6, you don't have to go v8. you'd need a bellhousing, maybe adapter ring for the car 4 speed, side motor mounts. Everything else you have should work with a little tweaking. you'd get 150 - 175 HP, which is probably more than the blown 261 can produce reliably. This is in keeping with the rest of the systems on the truck you built to match the 235, so you don't have to start thinking about new suspension etc. |
02-22-2024, 07:55 PM | #219 | |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
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In the past two years since I started this rebuild/restore I've seen at least 50 of this generation Chevy/GMC truck. All of them either had an LS or small block. One had a very sad original ooking 235 and only one had a 235 with a McCulloch supercharger which blew me away. While this will never be the truck with the $20k paint job, I want it to be as good as I can make it on my own. But it has to be a decent runner, not for drag racing, but for taking to car shows and O'Reilly's as needed....LOL
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02-22-2024, 09:57 PM | #220 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
realistically, the truck is a one of a kind kinda unit. it would be a shame to take it apart and change a bunch due to the existing engine issue. maybe do a few more checks, as advised bu the engine fella, and then if it checks out without breaking the bank then simply assemble it and slip it back in like it was. freshen up some internals, like rings and bearings or the cylinder head if that is what you want. otherwise assemble it and get it running again. you have the corvette for the go fast and smooth. the old truck is a coffee shop and conversation piece. you could then decide if you wanna sell it or keep it. you could sell it and get another AD truck that is already customised like you want or you could become a corvette guy. your choice. maybe you want a task force truck (55.2-59, thats what mine is, my fave but I have history with that model from being a kid, lol). it's your pocket book and your desires that need to be satisfied. finding a good custom AD done right would be the hurtle. you want to see pics of the actual before, during and after build.
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02-22-2024, 10:45 PM | #221 | |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
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I bought it from my friend, not because I needed anything to go fast (the Corvette is just my latest toy, but its not the first go fast car I've had). I bought it because of its unique history and very unique set of component. In fact, it may sound silly but I want all these components to work because it was the dream of the late previous owner (before my friend). I've already decided that there will be no LS or small block in this truck. If I have to search the country for another 261 engine should this one prove to be unusable, I will. However, my engine builder buddy seemed to assure me that he thought it was in great shape. His testing is just an insurance policy.
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02-22-2024, 11:31 PM | #222 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
see what the old engine guru says. if he is affordable here is how I would see things working
-strip the block. remove the frost plugs, oil gallery plugs, any bolts and fittings left anywhere, remove cam bearings (can't hot tank the bearings as the caustic soda used eats the cam bearings), remove any old gaskets etc. -strip the head. keep the rockers and valves in order because you aren't doing a rebuild, you are just cleaning the head and related parts, checking for warpage and cracks and drilling a coolant/vapor vent line. I usually use a piece of rebar tie wire on the rocker shafts to designate front etc but write that down so you don't forget. put the valves on a piece of wood lath with a bunch of holes drilled too accept the vale stems or strip of cardboard works, in order, and then clean them on a wire wheel or whatever so there is no carbon or deposits. then check them for stem wear and sealing face wear to be sure they are re-useable. .002" is the limit for stem wear. on the sealing face you are looking for a flat surface. - rod out the oil galleries in the block to remove any gunk or whatever, hot tank the block, all the tinware, buckets of bolts each categorized as to what it is from (i use 1 gallon metal paint buckets you can purchase empty-punch some holes in the bottom so water or hot tank fluid can drain out, scratch a designation on the side as to what the bucket contains, like bottom end, top end, etc then put the appropriate contents in the bucket so it can be dunked in the hot tank and the cleaning dude can easily rinse the contents off without losing anything), crank, valve springs and keepers, rockers and shafts, etc. -when the block comes out of the hot tank and is clean, line bore the crank bores in the block, rod out the oil galleries , run a tap through any threaded holes, wire brush the frost plug holes, etc. -retank the block after the machining to get all the coolant oil off etc, -check the head for true, cracks etc. check the valve seats for condition, check the valve guides for wear. repair as required. -remove the piston rings and clean all the ring grooves. mark the pistons as to their location (likely done on the connecting rods already. usually a metal stamp) and dunk the pistons and rods in an aluminum compatible degreaser tank. when clean check them for size and skirt collapse, ring groove integrity, etc. check the rods for bend, big end bore size and roundness etc. some would replace the bolts as well -clean the cam in the aluminum compatible dunk tank due to the aluminum gear it likely has. if the gear is composite then any dunk is a bad idea as it eats the material. then check the lobes and journals for size and lobe wear etc -check the crank for wear, have the woodruff key mchining done, thread the front bore if applicable, relieve the oiling holes, rod out the oiling bores, etc. redunk after the machining is complete -after ensuring the block is ready to go, the pistons are ready to go etc, it is time to gap a new set of rings and install on the pistons -next, if not done already by the line bore machinist, mic the main bearing shells with a ball mic and the main bearing crank journals and write down the sizes so that the thick bearings get nmatched up to the small crank journals. do the same for the rod bearings and journals and set them aside for future use in a clean area of the assembly shop -install the cam bearings, test fit the cam to ensure there is no tight bearing, install oil gallery plugs and frost plugs etc in the block -ensure the crank bores are clean and the bearing shells are clean and install the shells in the block and main bearing caps. install the crank, caps, plastigae on each journal, caps, bolts and torque them up. dont allow any movement on the crank, remove the caps and check the plastigage reading. if good, finish the crank and rear main seal install. -install the rod bearing shells in their respective, clean, rods and caps -install the pistons one at a time, along with the next step, ensuring the ring gaps are spaced as per the manual. what I like to do is have a coffee can full of oil handy and the piston gets set in there to soak oil on all the rings, piston pin bearing surfaces, etc before install -place plastigae on each rod journal and and do the process of checking each one as you install and torque. blue loctite each rod bolt on the final install -install the cam as per the manual with the appropriate lube and remember to align the timing marks, blue loctite -install the rest of the engine accessories on the block to complete the shortblock. oil pump (assuming it has been cleaned, checked and prime it first. ensure the oil pump pick up tube is also part of the cleaning/replacement process), timing cover with new front seal, front pulley with new speedi sleeve or a sealing surface that is going to be good to go the distance, oil pan, etc. short block complete. -assemble the head. it is recommended to check the valve springs for correct tension, the valves for keeper groove integrity, keepers for integrity, valves for stem wear, sealing surface wear etc. sometimes a shim may be required under the spring to boost pressure or a new set of springs could be used, which may be a good idea if the springs show any weakness, especially with the supercharger. install new valve seals of course. I usually lube the valve stems with molyslip grease but that is just me -install the head, lube and torque the bolts as per the manual -install the lifters and pushrods. ensure they are lubed accordingly -install the rockers and shafts. ensure they are lubed accordingly. I usually use the black molyslip grease on them as it sticks really well. each to their own -install the other accy as required. valve cover, lifter cover, water pump, distributor, bellhousing, clutch flywheel, etc ok, you have an assembled engine thats ready to install did I miss anything? of course, assembly lube, quality gaskets, quality sealers, all fasteners either lubed or loctited before assembly and torqued as per the manual. parts painted upon final assembly and after a thorough cleaning/degreasing. accy checked (water pump, front pulley sealing surfaces, belt grooves etc. clutch pilot bearing checked/replaced/lubed, clutch checked/replaced etc, mounts checked/replaced etc. belts checked/replaced etc, etc etc). |
02-22-2024, 11:32 PM | #223 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
ok, yeah, that was a book. sorry.
hope it helped |
02-22-2024, 11:36 PM | #224 | |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
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02-22-2024, 11:37 PM | #225 |
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Re: Eliminate draft tube options
ok. forgot to say, adjust the vales as per the manual. check the pushrods for bending. I usually roll them on a piece os glass becuase it is a nice flat surface. check for galling or wear on the ends as well. check the rockers for the same issue where they contact the shaft, the pushrod and the rocker shafts, etc etc
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