Starter problem?

[dwjack]

I drove to work yesterday and when I came out the truck was dead. The starter would click like a dead battery. Tried jumping it and it still wouldn't turn over. It was -35 out so I decided to just tow it home and put it in the garage to let it thaw out.

Today I was trying to figure out what was wrong with it. I put a charger on the battery and within 10 minutes it said it was fully charged. With the key on when I turned the heater, headlights and stereo on they would barely run just like a dead battery. I swapped out the battery with a good one and same thing.

I determined that I had 12 volts going to the starter but the wire to start it would only throw 1 or 2 volts when you tried. I had 12 volts everywhere else I checked and couldn't figure it out. I was playing with things and was turning the key and holding it and thought I could hear something in the engine making a hissing noise. I did this a few times and then all of a sudden the starter turned over and it fired up. I restarted it 10 or so times and it worked every time.

Now I'm mad because I didn't fix anything and who knows if my truck will do this again. I was thinking that possibly it could have been a dead spot on the starter but I don't think that would have made the accessories inside barely work like a dead battery. And why was it only throwing 2 volts to the starter?

Anybody have something like this happen before or any ideas?

[Nolowrider]

The exact samething happened to me yesterday. Starter was alittle slow turning when I left the house, I drove about 20 miles to a friends house. Got ready to leave and click, click, click. Determined that the starter was bad after checking the battery. removed the starter, (broke a bolt off in the block ) and bench ckecked it. Sure enough the bendix was kicking out, but not turning. Bought a new starter stuck it on and it was good to go. If you have headers, sometimes the heat will destroy a starter.

[Tynee]

My input is to pull the starter and take it to any of the local parts shops that will test it for free. Their bench test will tell exactly how many RPM it's turning and other pertinant info.

I just went through something similar on my wife's Jeep. It can be a pain in the butt to diagnose starter problems at times, especially intermittent ones.

[dwjack]

I really don't want to pull the starter unless I have to. I don't see why if it was a starter problem my accessories would be weak and I wasn't getting 12 volts to the starter while cranking. The headers really make pulling it a pain.

[Eyegore]

If you get stuck somewhere again and this happens, have someone hold the key to the start position and get under the truck and lightly tap the starter with a hammer, should turnover if the starter solenoid is bad.

P.S. make sure the parking brake is on, I don't want to be responsible for you getting run over.

[Nolowrider]

When mine broke this weekend, I could turn the head lights on and when I tried to start it the lights would go dim like a low battery.. The bad starter motor could be drawing too too much. May be shorted internally.

[Tynee]

I understand the header thing, but its the best way to know for 100% certain that your starter isn't the issue.

[piecesparts]

I have had starter issues in the past and I finally got POed enough to invest in a Magnetic starter that stands up to the header heat. I'm not sure about your engines, but my headers don't block my work to much. The hard part is getting to the wires with the starter installed, so I put that on while the starter is setting down just a little (I put a block under the starter and support it befire mounting it on the engine. The magnetic starter has the connections down low on the side and is easy to get to.

If the accessories dim really bad when you try to turn the motor over, then you really have a grounding or dragging issue in the starter.

[dwjack]

Well I bought a starter and it really wasn't as bad changing as I remembered. Everything seemed fine, started numerous times without any problems. Today I drove to work, it's still really cold about -40 and when I got off I tried starting it and nothing. All the accessories inside seemed bright but turning the key did nothing. I kept turning the key to the start position and holding it about 3 seconds. After about 15 times right as I was about to give up it fired. I drove home, parked it and started it back up a couple of times.

I think the cold is causing whatever part is bad not to work but it also did this in the garage after the last time. I need to figure out why the starter is only getting 1-2 volts thrown at it when I have this problem. I followed the wire off the starter to the fuse panel where it goes through but I'm not sure where it comes out on the inside.
When you turn your ignition key to start the truck does the power go strait from there to the starter? Isn't there an ignition switch buried up under the dash somewhere?

I think that until I figure this out I will run a wire from the small terminal of the starter up into the engine compartment so that when it won't start I can just touch it to the battery to engage the starter. That will be better than laying underneath trying to do it.

[beaterC10]

The ignition switch is attached to the column, about halfway between the dash and the floor board on the top side of the column. Probably easiest access is gained by dropping the column loose from the dash mount.

You might want to check the resistance of the wire that supplies voltage to the starter, that could cause you voltage drop.

[Nolowrider]

I am sorry to hear that the new starter did not completely fix the problem. Does your truck have a ballast resistor? If it does it should be in the engine bay on the firewall. I have seen those go bad. Your truck was acting exactly like mine was and a new starter fixed it. Although -40 is pretty damn cold.

[Tynee]

So, did you have the old starter tested before you bought the new one? I'm curious if there was a confirmed problem with it.

[dwjack]

I didn't have it tested, I needed to drive the truck to buy a new one. I also figured a dead spot on the starter would be hard to detect.

I hooked up the wire so that I can start the truck without crawling underneath it and lay in the snow. Hopefully that will work until I find the problem.

Assuming I have power to the ignition, which I haven't determined yet I think the problem is either the key cylinder or the ignition switch. I wish it would stop working long enough while it's in the garage so that I could find the problem. I might pull it outside long enough so that it won't start and then push it into the garage to work on it. This morning it was -47, brrrrrr.

[piecesparts]

Elimination time for troubleshooting. You think that it could be the key cylinder or the ignition switch. The ignition switch is on the top of the column, just under the instrument panel, it is connected to the key cylinder with a metal rod. The ignition switch is mounted to the column with two small bolts that could be loose and allowing the switch to reposition to where the ignition switch is not actually getting to the proper "START" position. If all else fails you could take the switch off of the column and use a screwdriver to slide the switch back and forth to see if it works. Replacing the switch is not hard, especially if you take the two nuts loose that holds the column to the dash and let it drop down to where you can see what you are doing. The rod is made to just insert into the switch and cause it to slide. After you re-install the new one, you will want to adjust it to where it actuates the starter at the right point. The cylinder turns, so my guess that it is doing the job, unless the "Potmetal' piece that rocks back and forth and moves the rod that goes to the switch is broken. That's what broke on me in Louisville and I had to tear my column apart in the dark so I could get the switch out to allow for starting the truck until I got home.
The ignition switch actuates the starter solenoid and if it is snapping closed when you try to start the truck but the starter is NOT turning over, then you could have a bad battery cable connection, or broken strands in the cable between the battery and the starter. The ground cable could be the culprit, also--check it fopr a good connection on both ends. A change out of those could make your day better in the long run, buy good heavy duty ones and if you happen to have the clamp on battery cable ends, the kind you buy at an auto parts store and use when your other cable end gets bad---THROW those things as far away as you can----Bad JuJu in those things. Good for emergencies only. You loose a lot of battery power when those are used.

[dwjack]

As for dropping the column, I have the 2 bolts out and after disconnecting the cable for the shift indicator, it will only drop about 1 inch. I don't see anything else thats stopping it. Am I missing something?

[piecesparts]

The column will not go to the floor, but it will drop about 4 or 5 inches, if you put a lilttle force on it. The auto tranny shifter rod or the actual linkage to the steering box may be holding you up some. I have had my column completely out and there is not much that is holding you right now. the clamp at the firewall will allow you to move the column down. Look to see if there is any wiring harnesses that may be under the column (just behind the dash panel) that may be holding you up.

[SmittySmith]

My brother-in-law had a similar problem once when his 81 Chevy was about 2 weeks old. We were heading accross the Texas panhandle and had stopped for lunch and came out and the truck was dead... it turned out that there is a block on the firewall (towards the very top center) that the main power feed from the battery runs to, from there on into the cab., and the nut on this wire from the battery had worked loose (probably not tightened well from the factory). After being tightened it has worked fine for the last 25 years...
If it happens to be loose it might could cause an intermittent problem like you are having. It's easy to check and free to fix! Hope that helps....

Smitty ~

[Nolowrider]

Smitty-I think what you are refering to is the ballast resistor.

[SmittySmith]

You are right Nolowrider.... at least now I know the name of it! And being a part of the primary ignition system should be checked. Not sure if it could have contributed the "hissing" sound though. Thanks. ;^) Smitty ~