It's finally time - a new engine

[mySAVIOReigns]

So, one of my friends has (I think) about talked me into building my own engine.

I don't want anything big, just a simple 350 shall do. Although, if it's not much more, I have always loved the 383s. But I have a couple of questions. I have very minimal experience with engines. I can tell you all about how they work and all that, but I've never gone in and messed with one. Am I better off buying a crate engine? I don't want to make a 2 thousand dollar mistake. Also, how much does it cost to put one together yourself, buying all the parts, compared to buying a crate?

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

4 times it died tonight in 5 seconds - that was the last straw...new gas tanks, new lines, and maybe a new engine...

[Bishops Trucks]

If you want to play it safe you could always buy a short block and do all the upper stuff yourself. That would give you some experiance there then on the next engine try some bottom end work. Just my opinion.

[ghetto_superman]

[cliffsta]

I was told it would probably be most wise to buy a crate engine for your needs and learn with a toy or project. So many variables, and unless you match THE right parts it won't make the right power. I'd suggest going with a crate motor or a small block.

[N2TRUX]

Sorry to hear about all your frustrations Stephen. Sometimes these old trucks can be a pain. Like cliffsta if you don't have the knowledge to do most of the work yourself, it's probably best to buy a crate motor.

If you want to take the time to research a reputable machine shop in your area and get a quote on rebuilding your block you will get a better understanding of what's involved.

The problem is that if they are reputable then it will take them a while to turn your motor around and get it back to you. Consider that you have to pull the motor, take it to them and wait to get it back and install it. Can you afford to have your truck down 2-3 or 4 weeks?

If you buy a GM crate motor you can still drive your truck until the motor arrives. Unless issues pop up you should be able to install the motor over a weekend and have it running by Sunday evening.

I suggest you shop online for the best deal on GM crate motors then take that price to Summit Racing. They will match the price and ship it for free. They are large enough that they have the most common motors in stock all the time...

[Jonboy]

What do you intend to do with the truck? If you are looking for a decently priced remanufactured engine, check out Blaines motor supply in Dallas. I have had good luck with their stock rebuild stuff, and I know they build a pretty decent stroker engine.

[cliffsta]

Give Scoggin-Dickey a shot, last I checked they have the HO350 for around 2400 and the standard 260/330 for ~1700.

I think the URL is www.sdpc.com. And check your dealer, they might be able to cut you a sweet deal on one, you never know.

[craig@ridetech.com]

You might even look into Jasper Engines and Transmissions. They do nothing but remanufactures and they have a pretty good nationwide warranty. I know several guys who have used their stuff with good luck. They will even build you a nice 383 if you want it.

[Slonaker]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

I suggest you shop online for the best deal on GM crate motors then take that price to Summit Racing. They will match the price and ship it for free. They are large enough that they have the most common motors in stock all the time...

I paid $100 for shipping on mine through summit. They had the best price when I took shipping and tax into consideration.

Slonaker

EDIT: Since he lives in Texas, Scoggins Dickey probably is not a good choice since he will have to pay sales tax.

[cliffsta]

Originally Posted by Slonaker

Since he lives in Texas, Scoggins Dickey probably is not a good choice since he will have to pay sales tax.

Good call Slonaker, I didn't even think of that. Sales tax on a 1600-2000$ motor would be mighty rough.

[mySAVIOReigns]

Guys,
Thanks, this is a great help, and I appreciate all of the sources/referrals. I would have it rebuilt, but I figure, it's a 305, so rather than rebuilding, I might as well spend the extra money and get a 350. Plus, the maximum time I could go w/o an engine would be about a week, with lots of repaying to friends for rides

Cliffsta, what exactly do you mean by HO350? I assume a 350, but what's the HO stand for?
I know my stock 305 (originally as advertised) had something in the range of 130ish HP...these new CRATE engines have at least 260. Obviously this will increase my power, but will it make my gas mileage kick the bucket? I've heard a rumor that it actually sometimes helps the gas mileage.

Last, where could I get a quote for a GM engine? Jegs has the GM Goodwrench 350 package, but I'm sure this has their side of the profit on it. Thanks guys, this is helping a ton!

[cliffsta]

High Output 350. Makes 330 horses and 380 Ft/Lb TQ. Basically, Vortec heads, upp'ed C.R., little tweaks like that. The standard crate 350 makes 260 horses and around 330-350 Ft/Lb TQ.

Stock 305 (in 1980) made 135 HP and 235 TQ (I got one, I know) which isn't very stellar. Simply putting in a standard 350 would waaay up your power. Fuel mileage, depends on the carburetor. My truck came with a POS 2-barrel carburetor. With a 4 Barrel one can baby the throttle and adjust the vaccum on the secondaries to not open up the big "barrels" and thus get better MPG than a 2 barrel with just 2 medium-sized barrels. It is possible that a new, fresh motor with a good 4-barrel will get comparable MPG as your tired 305 with (assumedly) a 2 barrel.

Ok, sorry for being so long-winded, I hope that helps some.

[mySAVIOReigns]

Nope, it has a 4BBL, but i only get about 10-11 mpg. I used to get about 15, but time changed that...

[pcmcobra]

ls2!!!!!!

[magnethead]

Originally Posted by pcmcobra

ls2!!!!!!

LS7!!

LOL

[68Stepbed]

I used to get around 14 mpg with my 350/260hp crate engine in my 68. I personally recommend the 350 HO/330 HP deluxe engine. My dad ordered one from Summit Racing. That sucker came with everything! All we had to do was bolt the accessories on(starter, alt., PS pump, headers, A/C and all the brackets) and we were done! We did have set the dizzy back in the right spot though(they just drop em in anywhere) It even came the little stuff like pcv valve, thermostat and housing, plugs, wires, water pump, carb, dizzy, and chrome 14" aircleaner. Best deal on the market if you want my .02

If you're on more of a budget, the 260 or 290 hp engines are still good bargains. Summit Racing has the best pricing on crate engines that I've seen.

[pcmcobra]

Originally Posted by magnethead

LS7!!

LOL

word!

[cliffsta]

Originally Posted by 68Stepbed

I used to get around 14 mpg with my 350/260hp crate engine in my 68. I personally recommend the 350 HO/330 HP deluxe engine. My dad ordered one from Summit Racing. That sucker came with everything! All we had to do was bolt the accessories on(starter, alt., PS pump, headers, A/C and all the brackets) and we were done! We did have set the dizzy back in the right spot though(they just drop em in anywhere) It even came the little stuff like pcv valve, thermostat and housing, plugs, wires, water pump, carb, dizzy, and chrome 14" aircleaner. Best deal on the market if you want my .02

If you're on more of a budget, the 260 or 290 hp engines are still good bargains. Summit Racing has the best pricing on crate engines that I've seen.

They also offer (at least Summit and SDPC do) the version without the Air Cleaner, Dist. and other minor things, to save a few bucks. Just another thought.

[mySAVIOReigns]

I might consider that - I just bought a new air cleaner a few months ago.

Thanks again guys.

hahaha, LS7

[84 400]

yeah if your experance is limited it is not too wise to play with your daily driver. i have been messing with motors for a while and have done a few rebuilds and build ups but am no expert. i just like building them. to stock is pretty straight forwatd but you have to consider mechiane time and the fact that the block might be messed up. Building with high preformace parts can be tough. this is that you will have to match the came, pistions, heads, intake and carb so that they work together and not against. while i did do alot on my truck i really regreat not going for the bigger cam. while a big cam would do wonders for my sb 400 the mild( and i mean mild) cam in there now is great for gas millage. best to play with motors once you have a project car that you can take the time to do it to. I would go for the 350 high out put because of the nice vortech heads. but if money is an issue i would say find a deal on the gm 350 and then do a cam and intake as you want. all depends on what the truck is gonna be when done. it is nice to have the 35ho 330 hp on tap though. also check your local cregis list for motors. i see them all the time from abanden projects that were build very well. the only thing there is that i would have a buddy come with you who knows motors and pull the heads and inspect them thourgholy or if it is possilbe to see it run then do that. Also what are you gonna do with the 305? if you don't want to do the swap some people out there will take the 305 in trade for the labor. or you could keep the 305 and find a cheap camaro or sothning with a blown motor and buld the 305 for that

Good luck with whatever you do

[cliffsta]

I've always wanted to hang on to my 305, learn motors, build it up, and drop it in an Elky or an 80s Camaro / Firebird.

[Billla]

Originally Posted by mySAVIOReigns

So, one of my friends has (I think) about talked me into building my own engine.

I don't want anything big, just a simple 350 shall do. Although, if it's not much more, I have always loved the 383s. But I have a couple of questions. I have very minimal experience with engines. I can tell you all about how they work and all that, but I've never gone in and messed with one. Am I better off buying a crate engine? I don't want to make a 2 thousand dollar mistake. Also, how much does it cost to put one together yourself, buying all the parts, compared to buying a crate?

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

4 times it died tonight in 5 seconds - that was the last straw...new gas tanks, new lines, and maybe a new engine...

Boy, I'd do a bunch of troubleshooting before I'd replace the engine

I'll disagree with the general flow here - ANYONE can put together a decent 350 without prior experience and have a great running engine. Honestly, it's not that hard...you need to be careful and take things slow, but ANYONE can do it successfully! Pick up Dave Vizard's "How to Rebuild Your Small-Block Chevy and read through it...and I'm betting that you won't see anything there that you feel like you can't do. I did my first rebuild in 1979...and it ran perfectly. I've done a bunch since, and the only bad builds I've had were when I tried something on the edge without doing some reading and research first.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-Yo...e=UTF8&s=books

Financially, it's about a wash between doing it yourself and buying a crate engine...but IMHO crates are never EXACTLY the engine you want. Building your own you can make smart decisions on exactly the pieces you want.

Everyone can jump on the dogpile here, but in my experience it's possible to do a reasonable overhaul for about $1200 if you do as much of the work as possible yourself, reuse everything possible and use stock quality parts. This will deliver about 300 HP on a 350...about the same as the stock crate motor and for about the same price...BUT you can install the RIGHT cam for your truck (which the crate engines DO NOT have) and do a few other mild performance upgrades. Moving up to about $2500 you can buld a really nice 350 making around 340 HP, and moving up to $3500 you can build a nice 383 making around 375 HP. Figure a 383 adds about $500 - $700 to the overall build. If you PM me, I'll send a spreadsheet with exact costs for an overhaul I'm doing right now with a buddy - I spec'd it and he's building it in my shop with me watching over his shoulder.

This is all based on a) having a good machine shop you can work with and b) having someone (like this board) that can guide you through the choices. Bad engine builds come from a) not starting with a realistic budget in mind and b) making bad decisions about parts These are both easily avoided.

[Billla]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

The problem is that if they are reputable then it will take them a while to turn your motor around and get it back to you. Consider that you have to pull the motor, take it to them and wait to get it back and install it. Can you afford to have your truck down 2-3 or 4 weeks?

...or, buy a used 350 for ~$50-$150 from CL and start there. This is clearly a risk; you can end up spending $$$ on stuff that's junk when you tear it down, but used GEN Is are so cheap that it's reasonably low-risk.

[Billla]

Originally Posted by magnethead

LS7!!

LOL

You know, the scary thing here is that at $12K it's a good deal for a 505 HP engine that can get 24 MPG. Not cheap, but try building a 350 that makes that power level for that price...totally unstreetable. The last engine I build at that level was about $10K, so. Add in 5K for harness, etc. and you're right in there on pricing for a 640/572...

I'm actually thinking about this for my '69 Vette; I have a call into Morrison Motorsports to see if they can tweak their replacement frame for LS-style mounts.

[Billla]

Originally Posted by cliffsta

High Output 350. Makes 330 horses and 380 Ft/Lb TQ. Basically, Vortec heads, upp'ed C.R., little tweaks like that. The standard crate 350 makes 260 horses and around 330-350 Ft/Lb TQ.

There's a pretty good thread going on about this in the Engine forum, but I would take a look at the TQ/HP curve for this engine - not really set up at all for a truck

http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/GMPerfor...9711&engCat=sb