1.6 rockers and powerband

[AlienYouth]

so, i wiped a lobe off of my XE274, and i'm looking into going bigger with my cam, I have a ~3000 stall and dont want to take it past 7000, 3.73 rear. I am using 1.6 rockers and was wondering about the effect the higher ratio had on the powerband of the cam. cam suggestions would be nice too thanks.

I'm running a 383 with iron eagles (180/72cc) and a dart kool can

[Marv D]

I am not a fan of the XE line so take this with whatever weight you wish.
If you want a realistic cam recomendation, you really need to offer up a little more info. Need true compression ratio (if you truely easured and have it, if not please list the components,, piston #, deck clearance if known or if the block was decked, gasket, to go with the head cc). What intake / carb your running and some exhaust details.

but from the hip... with a 3000 stall and 3.73 gears , a 7000 rpm limit,, we already know a few limits. We want a cam that has a effective limit in the 2500-6800 range, The Iron Eagles are a little lame on the exhaust side. so we definately need a split pattern. If we knew compression we could make a good stab at 0.050" duration, then just need to know the max lift the springs will allow ( The IE's have a 1.42" spring and a .60 max lift as I remember ) but what is Valve-to-Piston clearance now with the .525 lift you have with the XE274 and 1.6 rockers??

The higher rocker ratio will probably do nothing if anything to effect the power band. It increases lift, which has a VERy small effect on the 0.050" duration. Enough to move the power band,, unlikely.

If you were to step up to the next hydraulic in the Comp flat tappet line the XE282H you would jumop about 6 degrees of duration to 240° @ 0.050" and slightly wider split pattern but still not enough lift IMO.

If you looking to step up to the real potential of those heads I would like to see AT LEAST .575 lift, and more like 0.050" off coil bind for something real close to .6" lift. Unfortunately that would mean a custom cam, or a roller. Have you considered the cost vs. power of going to a hydraulic roller? Lots of nice hydraulic rollers out there that will put lift in the sweet spot of those heads, and can be had in whatever duration you need to match your compression (once you have that info)

[AlienYouth]

thank you very much, Marv D, CR is right at 9.5, intake is a dart kool can, carb is some old holley 750, but thats up for reconsideration Exhaust is hedman step tubes, 3" pipe with moroso spiral flow mufflers

I was actually leaning more towards a solid flat tappet, but i can't find any of the good articles on a roller cam, although it did cross my mind. as far as valve/piston clearance, i'm not sure, i wasn't to concerned with only 525 lift. i'm also not sure about max lift, but i wouldn't mind doin a little head work if it would be worth it. thanks so much for your help, i'm basically clueless as far as this goes

[djracer]

I have a buddy with a set of retro hyd roller lifters for sale if you go that route.

[AlienYouth]

not sure, but if i do, i'll let ya know

[Super73]

IMO with todays oils, if you put any mileage on that motor, go roller. With 9.5 SCR, going big is going to reduce bottom end TQ.

Food for thought, you can run up to about 8.5 Dynamic compression on pump gas before you really need to start turning the timing down. With only 9.5 Static, a cam ground on a 104 intake center having 267* at .006 would net 8.0 DCR. We are talking roughly a 218* at .050 for a decently agressive hyd roller profile. Not very big at all and would be hard pressed to get you to 7k rpm.

To get you to 8.5 on a 104 ICL it's have to be a 246* @ .006 which would be extreamly hard to find and definately will not get to your 7k very easily.

A 224-230* intake duration cam at .050 could get you to 7k if set up properly. Thats roughly 274* at .006. This drops your DCR to 7.84..

[HighwayHum72]

check out Lunati's voodoo hydraulic flat tappets. i took the biggest one they had (pt # 60105) and stuffed it into my 350 w/ world sportsmans 64cc 200cc 9.5 cr, 3000 verter, 3.73's and i'm running 1.6 full rollers so the lift is up a bit. long story short...my truck is very very different now. in a good way. it idles at 950 in gear and the fun really starts at 2500 and i don't know where it ends yet. this is on chevron ca 91 octane pump gas with and edel 650 and dual plane and i use valvoline racing oil 50 with zinc- 3.99/qt at auto zone. I'd say Lunati's voodoo hyd ft cam are worth checking out for what you want. Have fun.

[Marv D]

Originally Posted by HighwayHum72

check out Lunati's voodoo hydraulic flat tappets. i took the biggest one they had (pt # 60105) and stuffed it into my 350 w/ world sportsmans 64cc 200cc 9.5 cr, 3000 verter, 3.73's and i'm running 1.6 full rollers so the lift is up a bit. long story short...my truck is very very different now. in a good way. it idles at 950 in gear and the fun really starts at 2500 and i don't know where it ends yet. this is on chevron ca 91 octane pump gas with and edel 650 and dual plane and i use valvoline racing oil 50 with zinc- 3.99/qt at auto zone. I'd say Lunati's voodoo hyd ft cam are worth checking out for what you want. Have fun.

Proof again that Harold knows how to deliver what we want. For those that may not know,, Harold Brookshire (the man behind Ultradine Cams) was hired by Lunati after Holley bought the Lunati line. Harold was 'instrumental' in the design of the Voodoo line then Lunati(cs) let Harold go. The Voodoo line is (IMO) a last hurrah for Lunati (now being owned by the same corporate umbrella a Comp Cams.) The Voodoo line is heads above the Comp 'XE' line without all the clattering valve noise. It will be a shame to see Joe's business and name fade in the the history books like Crane, SpeedPro and so many others we grew up with. I guess that's a sign of our age eh!

[Super73]

Marv,

There are still small shops around making killer products. Take Elgin Cams for instance in Redwood City..

[454HO]

Originally Posted by Marv D

Proof again that Harold knows how to deliver what we want. For those that may not know,, Harold Brookshire (the man behind Ultradine Cams) was hired by Lunati after Holley bought the Lunati line. Harold was 'instrumental' in the design of the Voodoo line then Lunati(cs) let Harold go.

From what I hear, UDHarold is a legand. And he's still alive and kicking butt over on the Chevelle board. If you want a custom grind... even better than an off-the-shelf VooDoo... give him a call (662) 562-4933.

Here is a brief Bio he posted -

Ron,

Don't apologize....I sometimes think threads for him were meant for me, too...
Since you asked, I'll give everyone a very very short history of me, so you'll know where I came from.
1969---Went to work for State of Mississippi as computer operator, rose to be lead operator at CDPA, Central Data Processing Agency.
1972---Began working on cam design program in my spare time.
Dec 15, 1972---Sold 310AP SBC solid to Reed Cams, Georgia, for $125.00.
1973---Made $3000 selling to Reed, Isky, Engle, Norris.
1974---Designed Reed's RxxxULX line of rollers, and a lot more, including Benny Parson's 1975 Daytona 500-winning cam. Also Shirl Greer's TF/FC NHRA National Champion Nitro Funny car cam, designed for Norris, and it was a True Chrysler flat tappet, with .438" lobe lift.
1974---Became General Kinetics' cam designer, worked with people like Bill Jenkins and Jack Roush on the cams for their ProStockers.
1976---Jenkins wins Pro Stock Natinal Championship, with GK doing large-barrel cams.
1977---I start in January with Competion Cams, as their original cam designer. Over the next 3 years, I design them hundreds of cams, including the 268 High Energy. I introduce them to the unsymmetrical cam.
1979---I write them their 1st in-house cam design program. Before that, we shared a program with Cam Dynamics.
1980---After negotiating since late 1976 for some stock ownership in Competition Cams, I leave and start UltraDyne on April 1st, 1980. The 1st month I design the 288/296F5 and the 288/296R6, the 2 most popular cams I ever made.
1981---In September, I hire my 1st employee, Mike O'Neal, who ran my shop, made all my models and masters, etc.
1982---We're running 2 shifts, from 7:00 AM to 12:00 PM. Tim Goolsby comes to work for me, he is Mike's brother-in-law. I also design UltraDyne's first hydraulic cams, such as the 272, the 276, the 288/296H.
From then on until 2000, we all just worked. UltraDyne grossed over $1.2 Million a year from 1990 to 1999.
2000---A number of independent factors began to take their toll---Federal Mogul acquiring my 2 major solid lifter core manufacturers, and their later Chapter 11, Lifter companies disappearring, tremendous cash-flow problems in the end of 2000, initially triggered by the UPS strike---We lost around $50,000 in the strike.
2001---A un-named cam company in Memphis hires 8 of my 12 employees, and 2 more just leave because they think --that's it. Only Tim and Gail are left with me.
2001-2003---UltraDyne is in the Chapter 11 'Death Spiral'. I take a $0 salary for 2002, and pump all my, and my wife's, retirment money into UltraDyne, along with all the equity I could get on my house, etc, etc, etc.
June 2003---Everything is gone, the government locks the doors.
August 2003---I go to work at Lunati, charged with completely re-doing their entire line of cams. Mike is already there, waiting for me, along with Steve Slavik, who worked for me for 13 years (Mike for 19...). Then I meet the corporate world.....
Oct 2004---Lunati introduces the VooDoo cams. And they really work good.....

This has been the line and times of a cam designer, and even with the down sides, it has been the time of my life, and I'm going to stay at it as long as I can.....

No comments are necessary, you are all a great bunch, and as that Great American, Minnie Pearl, said, "I'm just so proud to be here!"

Thanks,

UDHarold

[AlienYouth]

So actually, i think i've decided on a roller cam. since i never do things right the first time, figure i'll just do it more than right and not have to worry about it

[djracer]

full roller or hyd. roller?

[AlienYouth]

Originally Posted by djracer

full roller or hyd. roller?

hyd roller, I think I've decided on the Comp cams magnum 286, if ur buddy still has those lifters, i may be interested