Disc Brake Upgrade Reference Thread

[1964C10]

In follow up to this thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=364621 I would like to start a "wiki" on what parts are needed to do the disc brake upgrade. I am finding splintered information all through this board and I am attempting to put it all in one thread for future reference and use by others. Everyone's input will be much appreciated. As I get input I will edit the original post to reflect that information.

I am splitting this up in how I think people's trucks will most likely be configured as they need this information. Then I am sub dividing it in doing a cross member swap or just a parts swap. The years are split because it is my understanding that the framerails changed in those years. I have it split on engine configuration since they use different engine mounts. I realize that probably alot of it is going to be the same so I may need to combine some of these down the road. Again, everyone's help would be greatly appreciated!!

ITEMS TO NOTE:
Later model ('73-'87) suspensions have the rubber control arm bushings. They are less maintainence and less apt to make noise. Plus you can upgrade to urethane bushings if you want. (thanks CaptainFab)

The front cross members are basically the same from 63-87 so it makes it an easy swap with updated parts. (thanks 502tripower)

Replacing the entire cross member has the benefit that you can rebuild everything roll it under the rig bolt it up.

Pressure Differential Switch - The pressure differential valve is the device that alerts you if you have a leak in one of your brake circuits. The valve contains a specially shaped piston in the middle of a cylinder. Each side of the piston is exposed to the pressure in one of the two brake circuits. As long as the pressure in both circuits is the same, the piston will stay centered in its cylinder. But if one side develops a leak, the pressure will drop in that circuit, forcing the piston off-center. This closes a switch, which turns on a light in the instrument panel of the car." (thanks joe231) This wire is supposed to go the ground side of a warning light.

For donor parts of a 80-87 they must have the 1-1/4" rotors. The 80-87 year spindles also came with 1" rotors and are 'light duty' and won't work with the 6-lug rotors.

Yes-- You can pull the crossmember out with the motor still in place. I did lift it slightly with a engine puller just in case. The 6 cylinder is resting on the motor mounts with just the top frame bolts. (thanks bubba327)

You dont need a spring compressor to remove the coil springs. Jack up the front, set it on stands. Put your jack under the lower control arm. Loosen your castle nuts, DO NOT REMOVE, and wack that spindle with a hand sledge...They pop right apart generally. Then remove your castle nut and slowly and carefully lower the jack until you can pop out the spring. It straight forward, but its work. (thanks protrash64)

ADDITIONAL WORK REQUIRED ON ALL:
When you do these swaps, it also requires the addition of a split brake system, with a line for the front and one to the rear. I will be researching this information soon but for the moment the easiest thing to do is if you get the whole cross member, grab the lines and booster/mc as well even if you are going to replace it you will know what lines/hoses to run (thanks bubba327)

1960-1962/5 lug
Crossmember Swap:
1973-1987 (Chevy or GMC, 80-87 must have the 1-1/4" rotors.) Great how-to write up Here

Here is a great writeup/howto on a method of converting a 60-62 GMC V6 to a 350 Chevy small block engine with a tail shaft mounted transmission. This would apply to a Powerglide or Turbo 350 automatic, or manual 4 speed transmission such as the Borg Warner Super T10, or Muncie M21 or M22. Most of what follows also applies to Chevy trucks for 60-62. The main difference being the GMC motor mounts are welded to the frame and the Chevy mounts are bolted on. - Thanks markeb01!

Parts Swap:
(Not possible since the original suspension came with a torsion bar setup ?)


1963-1966/5 lug
Crossmember Swap:
'73-'87 front cross member bolts in with drilling/elongating a few holes (it will become a 5 lug)
The V8 and the I-6 (except the 292) perches are the same for these model years so it will bolt right up. (verification needed)

Parts Swap:
From '73-'87 you can unbolt the upper and lower control arms with the spindles attached and bolt these pieces onto your existing cross member. (clarification needed on 5-6 lug)
OR
You can re-use your existing upper and lower control arms and replace the upper and lower ball joints with new pieces from the '73-'87 donor truck. (clarification needed on 5-6 lug)

Now, the steering linkage is slightly different for the 1966 to 1973/1987
models ( specifically the tie rod diameters ). There are a few different ways one can approach this situation, 1: purchase the adapter sleeve that mates your original inner tie rod to the later model outer tie rod - cost for adapters about 50 bucks , 2: remove the threads from the larger, newer model tie rod and retap the tie rod with a left hand die to match the original older tie rod - cost for die about 30+ bucks plus the cost of the newer style tie rods , OR - drumroll please - 3: you can re-use the steering linkage from the donor truck, drill two new holes to mount the idler arm to the frame and bolt the whole assembley into your truck! I did this since the steering linkage in the donor truck had been recently replaced and it is MUCH beefier than the original 1966 parts. It will bolt to the existing pitman arm. Once completed you will need to have the alignment re-done. (thanks wild one)


1963-1966/6 lug
Crossmember Swap:
'73-'87 front cross member bolts in with drilling/elongating a few holes (will require an after market 6 lug spindle)
The V8 and the I-6 (except the 292) perches are the same for these model years so it will bolt right up. (verification needed)

If you have changed out your front end to a newer '73-'87 setup and want to keep the 6-lug style you can purchase the $89 ea. 6-lug rotors through ECE part #03-6370-6L - 60'-70' c-10 6-lug (1 1/4" thick) (thanks custom63)

Parts Swap:
From '73-'87 you can unbolt the upper and lower control arms with the spindles attached and bolt these pieces onto your existing cross member. (clarification needed on 5-6 lug)
OR
You can re-use your existing upper and lower control arms and replace the upper and lower ball joints with new pieces from the '73-'87 donor truck. (clarification needed on 5-6 lug)

Now, the steering linkage is slightly different for the 1966 to 1973/1987
models ( specifically the tie rod diameters ). There are a few different ways one can approach this situation, 1: purchase the adapter sleeve that mates your original inner tie rod to the later model outer tie rod - cost for adapters about 50 bucks , 2: remove the threads from the larger, newer model tie rod and retap the tie rod with a left hand die to match the original older tie rod - cost for die about 30+ bucks plus the cost of the newer style tie rods , OR - drumroll please - 3: you can re-use the steering linkage from the donor truck, drill two new holes to mount the idler arm to the frame and bolt the whole assembley into your truck! I did this since the steering linkage in the donor truck had been recently replaced and it is MUCH beefier than the original 1966 parts. It will bolt to the existing pitman arm. Once completed you will need to have the alignment re-done. (thanks wild one)

Option 1:
You need 73-87 3/4-1 ton lower control arms to do a 6 lug disc brake swap with stock 88-98 truck parts. (needs to be verified)

Option 2: (done by dream68)
The '88 spindle, rotor, calipers, and ball joints were used in the swap, but you need a 3/4 ton '68(other years see below) a-arm instead of the 1/2 ton one. The bottom '88 balljoint fits into the '68 a-arm, and the top '88 ball joint fits on the '68 a-arm. The top '88 ball joint you half to grind the rivets off of the 88 a-arm and then bolt it to the '68 a-arm. For steering linkage keep the 1968 1/2 ton intermediate shaft, 1988 1/2 ton tie rods, with the inner tie rod end changed to part#: MOOG ES2020. (done by dream68 on a '68 but should work on these years as well)

I used a 1990 chevy front end/parts that had 5 lug 1.25" thick rotors and went to AutoZone and bought new factory 6 lug 1.25" thick rotors and bolted them on. (thanks firstgen)

Potentially the following spindles, rotors, caliper and ball joints can be used (thanks jjr)
CHEVROLET PICKUP TRUCK 88 2500 Series; 4x2
CHEVROLET PICKUP TRUCK 88-91 1500 Series; 4x2, 1-1/4" thick rotor
CHEVROLET PICKUP TRUCK 89-91 2500 Series; VIN models "C/K", 4x2, 6 bolt wheel
CHEVROLET PICKUP TRUCK 92-98 1500 Series; 4x2
CHEVROLET PICKUP TRUCK 92-98 2500 Series; 4x2, 6 bolt wheel
CHEVROLET PICKUP TRUCK 99 1500 Series; exc. Silverado; 4x2
CHEVROLET VAN 96-99 1500 Series
CHEVROLET VAN 96-99 2500 Series; 7300 lb. GVW
GMC PICKUP TRUCK 88 2500 Series; VIN models "C/K", 4x2
GMC PICKUP TRUCK 88-91 1500 Series; 4x2, 1-1/4" thick rotor
GMC PICKUP TRUCK 89-91 2500 Series; VIN models "C/K", 4x2, 6 bolt wheel
GMC PICKUP TRUCK 92-98 1500 Series; 4x2
GMC PICKUP TRUCK 92-98 2500 Series; 4x2, 6 bolt wheel
GMC PICKUP TRUCK 99 1500 Series; old style (flat, pull-up outside door handle), 4x2
GMC VAN 96-99 1500 Series
GMC VAN 96-99 2500 Series; 7300 lb. GVW
SUBURBAN 92 1500 Series; 4x2
SUBURBAN 93-96 1500 Series; 4x2, vacuum brake booster
SUBURBAN 97-99 1500 Series; 4x2, gas
TAHOE/YUKON 95-99 4x2

Potentially the following low control arms may work (thanks jjr)
For lower control arm: the 67-70 3/4 lower arm can come from the following:
CHEVROLET FORWARD CONTROL 68-70 20 Series
CHEVROLET FORWARD CONTROL 68-70 30 Series; 7200 lb. rear axle
CHEVROLET PICKUP TRUCK 67-70 20 Series
CHEVROLET PICKUP TRUCK 67-70 30 Series; 7200 lb. rear axle
CHEVROLET VAN 71 30 Series; drum brake
GMC FORWARD CONTROL 68-70 2500 Series
GMC FORWARD CONTROL 68-70 3500 Series; 7200 lb. rear axle
GMC PICKUP TRUCK 67-70 2500 Series
GMC PICKUP TRUCK 67-70 3500 Series; 7200 lb. rear axle
GMC VAN 71 3500 Series; drum brake
SUBURBAN 67-70 20 Series
SUBURBAN 67-70 2500 Series

If the 71-up 3/4 ton lower control arm can work they can come from the following:
CHEVROLET FORWARD CONTROL 71-72 30 Series; 7200 lb. rear axle
CHEVROLET FORWARD CONTROL 71-89 20 Series
CHEVROLET FORWARD CONTROL 73-78 30 Series; non-removable carrier
CHEVROLET FORWARD CONTROL 79-84 30 Series; drum rear brakes, sgl. rear wheels
CHEVROLET FORWARD CONTROL 85-92 30 Series; exc. hvy. duty front susp.; drum rear brakes, sgl. rear wheels
CHEVROLET FORWARD CONTROL 93 30 Series; exc. hvy. duty front susp.; drum rear brakes, sgl. rear wheels, w/o 9L6 brakes
CHEVROLET PICKUP TRUCK 71-72 30 Series; 7200 lb. rear axle
CHEVROLET PICKUP TRUCK 71-88 20 Series
CHEVROLET PICKUP TRUCK 73-80 30 Series
CHEVROLET PICKUP TRUCK 81-88 30 Series; std. duty susp.
CHEVROLET PICKUP TRUCK 89-91 2500 Series; VIN models "R/V"
CHEVROLET PICKUP TRUCK 89-91 3500 Series; VIN models "R/V", std. duty susp.
CHEVROLET VAN 72-78 30 Series
GMC FORWARD CONTROL 71-72 3500 Series; 7200 lb. rear axle
GMC FORWARD CONTROL 71-89 2500 Series
GMC FORWARD CONTROL 73-78 3500 Series; non-removable carrier
GMC FORWARD CONTROL 79-84 3500 Series; drum rear brakes, sgl. rear wheels
GMC FORWARD CONTROL 85-92 3500 Series; exc. hvy. duty front susp.; drum rear brakes, sgl. rear wheels
GMC FORWARD CONTROL 93 3500 Series; exc. hvy. duty front susp.; drum rear brakes, sgl. rear wheels, w/o 9L6 brakes
GMC PICKUP TRUCK 71-72 3500 Series; 7200 lb. rear axle
GMC PICKUP TRUCK 71-87 2500 Series
GMC PICKUP TRUCK 73-80 3500 Series
GMC PICKUP TRUCK 81-87 3500 Series; std. duty susp.
GMC PICKUP TRUCK 88-91 3500 Series; VIN models "R/V", std. duty susp.
GMC VAN 72-78 3500 Series
SUBURBAN 71-88 20 Series
SUBURBAN 71-91 2500 Series

NOTE: The steer stops are different on the older arms(same deal as the 1/2 tons, it will shorten the turning radius), & will require a little grinding on the stops on the spindles to straighten it up. (thanks crazy longhorn)

Option 2: (done by firstgen)
I used a 1990 chevy front end/parts that had 5 lug 1.25" thick rotors and went to AutoZone and bought new factory 6 lug 1.25" thick rotors and bolted them on. (thanks firstgen)
Basically these are the parts I used:

1968 C20 lower control arms
1990 3/4 ton Light Duty 2X4 must have (1.25" rotors) spindles
1990 1.25" thick 6 lug rotors
1990 calipers off same truck
1990 upper and lower ball joints
1990 outer tie rods
inner tie rods MOOG part #ES2020RL
1990 style tie rod coupler

The only catch is to cut 3/4" off each end of both tie rods on each side of the truck so you can have enough room to align the truck. Well at least I had to since mine is lowered 4" in the front.

The front end I bought off the 1990 truck was 5 lug. All I did was went and bought the 6 lug rotors and bolted them on. If you wanted to stay with the 5 lug, you'd save yourself about $120 bucks.

After everything is done, you will now have 14mm studs on the front. I fixed this by drilling my rear axles and pressing in 14mm studs in the rear also but you wouldn't have to do this... I plan on going to a rear disc setup using a floating rotor design and so this helps that plan also...

I used the rubber lines off the 1990 truck and used the factory mount from the 1990 to secure the line to the frame.

Option 2: (done by captainfab)
Spindles from any '88-'98 1/2 ton or light 3/4 ton 2wd pickup or suburban. Rotors from a 7200# GVW 3/4ton from '88-'98 (for some reason there is one part # for '88 & '89 and another for '90-'94. There are only minor differences between the two) I bought the one for the '90-'94 which is Raybestos #56915RGS. The ball joints you need to use are the ones for the '88-'98 spindles. The uppers will fit '63-'87 1/2 ton upper a-arms. The lowers will fit '69-'87 3/4 ton lower a-arms. The '69-'72 are prefered because of the shorter bump stop bracket. The newer ones could be easily modified. For steering you will need to use the '88-'98 outter tierod ends and the adjuster sleeves with ES2020L (ES2020RL?) inner tierod ends to mate up with the drag link. The calipers to use are the '88-'98 ones. Other than some minor things and replacement parts like bearings and seals, etc, I think that's about it.

[1964C10]

Can anyone tell me if the motor mounts for a V8 and I6 mount differently on the frame rail/cross member as it pertains to the disc brake setup? For example if I have an I6 and I bought the crossmember from a '78 V8 will I need to do anything differently to the motor mounts? or is it simple drilling/enlarging holes?

[Joemomma1]

If only rep was still here Id be sending it your way.

[ChiefRocka]

((((Option 2: (done by captainfab)
Spindles from any '88-'98 1/2 ton or light 3/4 ton 2wd pickup or suburban. Rotors from a 7200# GVW 3/4ton from '88-'98 (for some reason there is one part # for '88 & '89 and another for '90-'94. There are only minor differences between the two) I bought the one for the '90-'94 which is Raybestos #56915RGS. The ball joints you need to use are the ones for the '88-'98 spindles. The uppers will fit '63-'87 1/2 ton upper a-arms. The lowers will fit '69-'87 3/4 ton lower a-arms. The '69-'72 are prefered because of the shorter bump stop bracket. The newer ones could be easily modified. For steering you will need to use the '88-'98 outter tierod ends and the adjuster sleeves with ES2020L (ES2020RL?) inner tierod ends to mate up with the drag link. The calipers to use are the '88-'98 ones. Other than some minor things and replacement parts like bearings and seals, etc, I think that's about it.)))))))



Dude...great write up !!!

With this option, are we still using the stock 63-66 draglink ?

[1964C10]

John, looking at this:

Option 2: (done by dream68)
The '88 spindle, rotor, calipers, and ball joints were used in the swap, but you need a 3/4 ton '68(For other year options see above in section 1963-1966/6 lug/V8) a-arm instead of the 1/2 ton one. The bottom '88 balljoint fits into the '68 a-arm, and the top '88 ball joint fits on the '68 a-arm. The top '88 ball joint you half to grind the rivets off of the 88 a-arm and then bolt it to the '68 a-arm. For steering linkage keep the 1968 1/2 ton intermediate shaft, 1988 1/2 ton tie rods, with the inner tie rod end changed to part#: MOOG ES2020. (done by dream68 on a '68 but should work on these years as well).

I think that answers your question(?)

[Alan's Classic]

This is a great resource for those contemplating the swap. Great job. I used the 72 because I got the rolling frame with steering gearbox for $200. I could see how the brake lines were routed on the 72 so I could modify the 65 frame to accomendate the 72 lines. The only change I made was the rear crossmember where the line connects to the rearend brake hose.

[1964C10]

Thanks Alan! I know it's incomplete but hopefully with knowledge from others, I can "weld up" the holes so to speak.

[chevy69tx]

hello, would 1963-1966 instruction work on a 69 c10?

[Captainfab]

Yes it will work all the way up to '70

Originally Posted by chevy69tx

hello, would 1963-1966 instruction work on a 69 c10?

[taclem]

Sounds like I can do this, but I do have a couple of questions. Will drop spindles for a '66 work or do I need the ones from the year of the donor truck? Also what may I run into with a 292 six? Really neat to see all this in one place, thanks.
Taclem

[N2TRUX]

This is awesome information. Thanks for taking the time to put it together. I added this to our Suspension- Quick-FAQ links. LINK

Unless I missed it, one thing I see that you might add is the year range on 73-87 donors. For those that are not aware the Suburbans from '73 thru '91 use the same suspension.

In most cases the Burbs will come with a front sway bar as well.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by 1964C10

Can anyone tell me if the motor mounts for a V8 and I6 mount differently on the frame rail/cross member as it pertains to the disc brake setup? For example if I have an I6 and I bought the crossmember from a '78 V8 will I need to do anything differently to the motor mounts? or is it simple drilling/enlarging holes?

the only difference in all of the eng perches is for the passenger side 292 I6 perch and it is just located further forward than the other side. shouldn't make any diff to the crossmember though
ron

[1964C10]

Thanks for the great info guys!! Bear with me for a little while I am going through the big D in my life and it's taking it's toll. I am good though! Life is good. I'll check and here in the next few days make these updates!

N2Trux thank you!!

Rolling baby!!

[Captainfab]

Sorry to hear that.....hang in there it does get better

I'm still working on getting a parts list together for the 6 lug swap with factory parts.....just been busy but I'm close.

Originally Posted by 1964C10

Thanks for the great info guys!! Bear with me for a little while I am going through the big D in my life and it's taking it's toll. I am good though! Life is good. I'll check and here in the next few days make these updates!

N2Trux thank you!!

Rolling baby!!

[markeb01]

Originally Posted by 1964C10

Bear with me for a little while I am going through the big D in my life and it's taking it's toll. I am good though! Life is good.
Rolling baby!!

Good luck with the transition, it sucks no matter what. Been there myself, as Cap says it does get better.

[Captainfab]

***************THIS CONVERSION IS NO LONGER RECOMMENDED UNTIL THE ALIGNMENT ISSUE CAN BE RESOLVED***************

OK I finally got around to compiling this.
Here is a list of parts and part numbers for converting to 6 lug disc brakes using factory parts. There will likely be updates later to the applications and years, as this here is just what I can confirm at this time.

You will need the following parts from a '88-'98 C1500 or 7200#GVW C2500 pickup or Suburban, or from a Express or Savanah Van thru 2002 in a 1500 or 7200#GVW 2500 model.

Spindles (unless you want dropped spindles)
Rotors (if you find a 7200# GVW 2500 series)
Calipers
Front caliper hoses
Outer tie rods
Tie rod adjusting sleeve
Lower control arm from a C20 (the '67-'72 have shorter bumpstop brackets. The '73-'87's will work, but may need to modify bumpstop bracket depending on rideheight)

Don't forget all the little parts like, spindle nuts and washers, dust caps, nuts, bolts, washers, etc.

The following are part numbers for new or rebuilt parts that can be sourced from your local auto parts store. Some of these are duplicates of the above in case you need new parts instead of good used ones. These part numbers I found online at CSK/O'Reilleys website. I looked these parts up for a '90 C2500 7200#GVW pickup.

Rotors
Raybestos 56915RGS

Outer Bearing
CR bearing BR3

Inner Bearing
CR bearing BR5

Inner Seal
CR seal 19984

Inner Tie Rod
McQuay-Norris ES2020L

Outer Tie Rod
McQuay-Norris ES2836RL

Tie Rod Adjusting Sleeve
McQuay-Norris ES2004S

Unloaded Calipers
Cardone 184299 (R)
Cardone 184300 (L)

Loaded Calipers
Cardone 154299 (R)
Cardone 154300 (L)

Semi-Metalic brake pads
Brake Best MKD369 (cheapest)
Brake Best SM369 (next best)

There are many brake pads to choose from. It just depends what you want performance wise and budget wise.

Front Hoses
Brake Best BH177760 (L)
Brake Best BH177761 (R)

Raybestos BH38620 (L)
Raybestos BH38621 (R)

Upper Ball Joint
McQuay-Norris FA1616

Moog K6292

Lower Ball Joint
McQuay-Norris FA1617

Moog K6293


I think that about covers it. If you find any errors, let me know and I'll correct it in this post. If you have anything to add, post up.

[fleetsidelarry]

Saved to favorites AND printed out. Thanks, guys, for taking the time to make life so much easier for the rest of us.

[chevy69tx]

thanks Captainfab for sharing that i was trying to figure out how to do this,what about Brake Booster and Master Cylinder?would this one work
http://shop.oreillyauto.com/productd...pe=250&PTSet=A

[Slow Build]

Great thread.

What about springs? Do you order them by the year of the crossmember or the lower control arms?

[Captainfab]

I believe that one should work. I assume it is for a ~'88 and up truck? If so that'll bolt right up to my booster adapter bracket.

Originally Posted by chevy69tx

thanks Captainfab for sharing that i was trying to figure out how to do this,what about Brake Booster and Master Cylinder?would this one work
http://shop.oreillyauto.com/productd...pe=250&PTSet=A

I don't know enough about the differences in the different years of springs, but I would think that if you were using say a '73-'87 crossmember, you should be able to use a spring for that year range. It really doesn't seem that there would be much difference in springs between '63-'72 and the '73-'87's

Originally Posted by Slow Build

Great thread.

What about springs? Do you order them by the year of the crossmember or the lower control arms?

[Roadhammer]

I did the swap from 1979 to 1963 (whole from crossmember including brake boost and power steering) Fit beautifully but the motor mounts on the my 350 were one inch taller than the frame. Put in 1x2 rectangular tubing spacer. easy fix just thought i woulf add that info.


Jory

[trenz68]

Had a couple questions. I recently did a front disk brake conversion on my 68. They guy claimed it came off a 72 swb. The rotors are 1 1/4. A buddy of mine has a 72 with 1in rotors. The reason i ask is i want to install some drilled and slotted rotors but they are 1in. Would i have to get a different year rotor or change the caliper to fit 1in rotors. Any help would be appreciated.

[Captainfab]

The spindle is different from the 1" rotors to the 1 1/4" rotors.

Originally Posted by trenz68

Had a couple questions. I recently did a front disk brake conversion on my 68. They guy claimed it came off a 72 swb. The rotors are 1 1/4. A buddy of mine has a 72 with 1in rotors. The reason i ask is i want to install some drilled and slotted rotors but they are 1in. Would i have to get a different year rotor or change the caliper to fit 1in rotors. Any help would be appreciated.

[66GMC-Canuck]

This is a great thread I am busy adding an updated cross member to my ToDo list.

[Byronic]

Subscribed and filed. Thanks Guy's for all the write ups.