Little help with bag selection please.

[68GenIII]

I decided to go with bags in the front of my truck and probably the rear. I wanted to just do static drop BUT Ive installed a Cummins motor that weighs about 1200lbs. I want the truck as low as possible and figured by the time I found the right mix of static drop parts to get the truck where I want it, I could of bought some bags and schraders(not to many drop kits out there for people with Cummins motors). This will at least get me going in the right direction. The truck will not be running and driving for a good while, as of right now the bare frame is hanging from the rafters in my garage while the paint dries. I can piece the rest of the bag setup together while Im finishing the rest of the truck, so............My question is what bags would work the best underneath that big motor? Thanks again!!

[68GenIII]

Ok...how about this, What are you iron headed bigblock people running for bags?

[SCOTI]

You'll want some HD bags 8" minimum diameter. RE-8's or Firestone F7325's/26c's. 3400# 8.5" diameter, 3" min height, 5-6" ride height, 10" max height.

[68GenIII]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

You'll want some HD bags 8" minimum diameter. RE-8's or Firestone F7325's/26c's. 3400# 8.5" diameter, 3" min height, 5-6" ride height, 10" max height.

Thats what I was thinking. Do you have any experience with the Air Lift bags? Ive seen the 2600 Dominator bags pretty reasonably priced.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 68GenIII

Thats what I was thinking. Do you have any experience with the Air Lift bags? Ive seen the 2600 Dominator bags pretty reasonably priced.

I've only used Firestone's. My current project 64 is utilizing some of the Slam RE series bags just to try them out.

[68GenIII]

Thanks for the help SCOTI!

[baggedout81]

I'd deff. stuff as big of bag as you can get in there.Like posted above.I have Slam HE8 in the back of my car an love them.Ride great an lock up nice.

If your looking for a nice drop.I'd think about boxing the lower arms so your not having to run cups. my buddy did this to his 65 (shortbed70) on here.Truck sits about 1/2" off the ground cross member that isAn locks up to where teh upper bump a arm bump stops arer hitting frame

[68GenIII]

Originally Posted by baggedout81

I'd deff. stuff as big of bag as you can get in there.Like posted above.I have Slam HE8 in the back of my car an love them.Ride great an lock up nice.

If your looking for a nice drop.I'd think about boxing the lower arms so your not having to run cups. my buddy did this to his 65 (shortbed70) on here.Truck sits about 1/2" off the ground cross member that isAn locks up to where teh upper bump a arm bump stops arer hitting frame

What exactly do you mean by "boxing" the lower arms? Ive seen cups welded in but I dont guess Ive seen them boxed in. I have some drop spindles on the truck. I bought them when I did my 6 to 5 lug conversion. Im not necessarily trying to put the truck on the ground. I am looking to get it as low as possible and be able to drive it, turn the wheels etc. Its going to be a daily driver. I ended up purchasing some Air Lift Dominator 2600s. I saw nothing but positive things about them and I got them very reasonably priced. More to come when I get them in I guess. Thanks for the help!

[droppedgmc]

I'd go with the HE-8's like mentioned above

Model HE-8
Diameter @ 0 PSI 8"
Diameter @ Max PSI 8"
Max PSI 400
Plate Material Zinc/Aluminum
Min Height 2.9"
Max Height 11"
Mounting (Top) (2) 3/8" - 16
Mounting (Bottom) (3) 3/8" - 16
Air Port (2) 1/2" NPT
Internal Bump Stops Yes
Force to Collapse
(to Min Height) 80 lbs
Replaces Firestone 26
Goodyear 2B8
http://www.kplinks.com/product.php?p...6&cat=1&page=2

[baggedout81]

Originally Posted by 68GenIII

What exactly do you mean by "boxing" the lower arms? Ive seen cups welded in but I dont guess Ive seen them boxed in. I have some drop spindles on the truck. I bought them when I did my 6 to 5 lug conversion. Im not necessarily trying to put the truck on the ground. I am looking to get it as low as possible and be able to drive it, turn the wheels etc. Its going to be a daily driver. I ended up purchasing some Air Lift Dominator 2600s. I saw nothing but positive things about them and I got them very reasonably priced. More to come when I get them in I guess. Thanks for the help!

Go down a bit on the link
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=332884&page=9

[68GenIII]

Originally Posted by baggedout81

Go down a bit on the link
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=332884&page=9

What are the differences, pro's/con's between this method "boxing" or lay in cups or weld in cups? Any advantages or just personal preference, something different?

[baggedout81]

Originally Posted by 68GenIII

What are the differences, pro's/con's between this method "boxing" or lay in cups or weld in cups? Any advantages or just personal preference, something different?

Boxing the lowers gives you teh ability to lay a little lower in the front.Your essentially moving your lower bag mount lower so when aired out the give the bag more room to fully collapse vs. if you run cups that just bolt to bag an sit in spring pocket your only gonna go as low as your cup/bag will let you.

On my buddys truck (shortbed70) when his is aired out the lower control arm dam near hist the spring pocket.Its pretty close.Now hes not gonna drive it like this mostly for the extreme angle the ball joints are at when drooped.But that can be solved to w/ pie cutting the ball joints or.Another thing i havent looked into yet is powerperformance.com makes some ball joints that the joint it self is angled w/ the base so it dont bind as easy.I just dont know if they make them for these older chevys.I know they make em for 78-88 g-bodys/s-10's

[tech@scottshotrods]

224c will be more than enough or the SS or RE7 .. Going with an re 8 is way over kill... the 224c has a 3200lb per bag load capacity at 100psi and is rated up to 150psi working pressure beauty of an air spring BBC, SBC, diesel don't matter
Check out our air suspension sale thread Slams, Dominators, Firestones all instock free shipping and low prices

[68GenIII]

Originally Posted by baggedout81

Boxing the lowers gives you teh ability to lay a little lower in the front.Your essentially moving your lower bag mount lower so when aired out the give the bag more room to fully collapse vs. if you run cups that just bolt to bag an sit in spring pocket your only gonna go as low as your cup/bag will let you.

On my buddys truck (shortbed70) when his is aired out the lower control arm dam near hist the spring pocket.Its pretty close.Now hes not gonna drive it like this mostly for the extreme angle the ball joints are at when drooped.But that can be solved to w/ pie cutting the ball joints or.Another thing i havent looked into yet is powerperformance.com makes some ball joints that the joint it self is angled w/ the base so it dont bind as easy.I just dont know if they make them for these older chevys.I know they make em for 78-88 g-bodys/s-10's

I figured that, I was wondering if there is an advantage to boxing like you described vs the 8" pipe sunk into the A arm method that most everyone else does?

[68GenIII]

Originally Posted by jon@scottshotrods

224c will be more than enough or the SS or RE7 .. Going with an re 8 is way over kill... the 224c has a 3200lb per bag load capacity at 100psi and is rated up to 150psi working pressure beauty of an air spring BBC, SBC, diesel don't matter
Check out our air suspension sale thread Slams, Dominators, Firestones all instock free shipping and low prices

Thats good to know, thanks for the info. Can you beat $46.75 a bag?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by jon@scottshotrods

224c will be more than enough or the SS or RE7 .. Going with an re 8 is way over kill... the 224c has a 3200lb per bag load capacity at 100psi and is rated up to 150psi working pressure beauty of an air spring BBC, SBC, diesel don't matter....

The 73-91 C30 Cool Ride kit utilizes F7325/26c's. That's 8.5" dia/3400lb & the equivalent of an RE-8 last I checked. I would think since a heavier truck w/a lighter drivetrain warrants the larger bag, a heavier drivetrain in a lighter truck would benefit from it as well.

Care to share your thoughts?

[texastrendz]

i have re 7s on my dually project up front, seem to be ok for the front. it has a 7.4l big block in it and it is a one ton truck. out back is a diffrent story, i ran a re 7 behind the axle.... big mistake. now i have ordered a sleeve style bag for ther rear. i almost have it finished, according to the great almighty nate it should make a world of difference.

[68GenIII]

Originally Posted by texastrendz

i have re 7s on my dually project up front, seem to be ok for the front. it has a 7.4l big block in it and it is a one ton truck. out back is a diffrent story, i ran a re 7 behind the axle.... big mistake. now i have ordered a sleeve style bag for ther rear. i almost have it finished, according to the great almighty nate it should make a world of difference.

What was the "Big Mistake"?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 68GenIII

What was the "Big Mistake"?

Double convoluted bags in a 1:1 (mounted on the rear end) application usually don't ride very good. Sleeve type bags yield better ride characteristics in that mounting position.

[texastrendz]

double convoluted bags work well on levers, not on a 1:1 ratio like scoti said. when mounting a bag on top or behind the axle a sleeve style bag is recommended. it is the construction of the bag that makes the difference. it rode so bad that i changed the whole rear suspension design. it should make for a smooth ride. a convoluted bag works well on a front suspension because it is working off of a lever. kind of like mounting a bag on a bar of a texas two link. excuse my lack of vocabulary on the suspension, i just say it where everyone can understand it.

[baggedout81]

Originally Posted by 68GenIII

I figured that, I was wondering if there is an advantage to boxing like you described vs the 8" pipe sunk into the A arm method that most everyone else does?

Preference i guess,id just reinforce around the pipe on the bottom side of arm connecting sides of arms to the pipe for the bag.This method is used allot when building lowriders.Nothing wrong w/ a little over building if anything

As for bags yeah a 7" slam or comparable should do it.Thats what we put in shortbed70 65 but its got a small block.At 75 psi shop compressor it raises pretty reasonably 1/2" line an bags.Should pop right up at 150 psi

[baggedout81]

Originally Posted by texastrendz

double convoluted bags work well on levers, not on a 1:1 ratio like scoti said. when mounting a bag on top or behind the axle a sleeve style bag is recommended. it is the construction of the bag that makes the difference. it rode so bad that i changed the whole rear suspension design. it should make for a smooth ride. a convoluted bag works well on a front suspension because it is working off of a lever. kind of like mounting a bag on a bar of a texas two link. excuse my lack of vocabulary on the suspension, i just say it where everyone can understand it.

Huh never heard it called that before.Texas 2 link

[tech@scottshotrods]

If you plan on mounting the bags over or behind the axle I would and will only suggest A F9000 Air Spring, reason being is because you are dealing with a 1:1 motion ration and a rolling sleeve has a linear spring rate unlike its double convoluted counter part which has an extremely progressive spring rate.
What that means while driving down the road a double convoluted spring will build spring rate as it compresses where the rolling spring will stay consistant through the range of motion.
So the difference between the two is night an day with a double convoluted mounted over the axle you will experiance some jolts and a reall bumby like truck ride, where with the rolling sleeve you will experiance a nice smooth new like car ride..
Plus the rolling sleeve has more usable stroke.
The only time a double convoluted bag should be used is when there is an un even ration involved IFS front, canti rear, any thing with leverage basically.
Now as for using the biggest bag posible is not true. When installing an Air Suspension properly a 255c is more than suffeciant While at Air Ride/ Ridetech we used 255cs on the front of our 2006 duramax duallies with no problems at all its all about leverage and motion ratios. If you brackets have improper angles then yes they will require a little more preasure which then one would assume they need a larger bag.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by jon@scottshotrods

If you plan on mounting the bags over or behind the axle I would and will only suggest A F9000 Air Spring, reason being is because you are dealing with a 1:1 motion ration and a rolling sleeve has a linear spring rate unlike its double convoluted counter part which has an extremely progressive spring rate.
What that means while driving down the road a double convoluted spring will build spring rate as it compresses where the rolling spring will stay consistant through the range of motion.
So the difference between the two is night an day with a double convoluted mounted over the axle you will experiance some jolts and a reall bumby like truck ride, where with the rolling sleeve you will experiance a nice smooth new like car ride..
Plus the rolling sleeve has more usable stroke.
The only time a double convoluted bag should be used is when there is an un even ration involved IFS front, canti rear, any thing with leverage basically.
Now as for using the biggest bag posible is not true. When installing an Air Suspension properly a 255c is more than suffeciant While at Air Ride/ Ridetech we used 255cs on the front of our 2006 duramax duallies with no problems at all its all about leverage and motion ratios. If you brackets have improper angles then yes they will require a little more preasure which then one would assume they need a larger bag.

Is the leverage on a Duamax equipped 2006 GM trucks a-arm the same as a 68 truck w/a Cummins? I would have thought the C30/BBC would be a closer match as far as weight & geometry.

[tech@scottshotrods]

yes the ratios are different it was just an example as to weight doesn't have as much bearing as the ratios do