subframe or s-10 swap? Advice needed.

[drivesfed]

Bought a 55 first series in 09 and did a quick minor restore on it. Fixed rust in cab, basic flat black paint job. Rebuilt the doors, re-did the interior just basic stock stuff. Put headers on the 235 and re-did the bed. Front king-pins replaced.

Drives nice, but am eager for a winter project.

I want something that I can put a 454 in and tow a trailer with.

I have seen the subframe articles and that is very intriguing. I have also seen the s-10 threads and realize that is also an option.

I am leaning towards the front subframe but am open for opinions and recommendations.

What exactly should I be looking for in a front subframe if I go that way?

I have good tools/shop/skills but just am eager to pick your brains as to not learn the hard way.

[Dan Bowles]

I did an S10 with a '54.

Here's my HAMB thread: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=137385

Would I do it again? Yep. I start tomorrow. What motor? Maybe a 396. We have one...

I'm using the same set up. X cab frame shortened 5". Wider rear end. Got a disc brake set up with about 62" width via friend of my son. I'll clean it up, run the brake lines and exhaust without the cab on then go for it. It is already boxed so it should handle a mild BBC.

[MMM...BRAINS...]

i started to do the subframe, but quickly changed my mind and went the s10 route. for me, the s10 way has been easier AND i prefer the idea of a non-cut frame rather than a grafted one. but thats just me. another reason i went s10 is i want to bag it and bagging an s10 can be done pretty easily and not break the bank....too much
AND the s10 frame if definatley a bit sturdier than the stock AD frame. i'm not saying the stock is weak by any means (if you box it)
I know a guy whos into racing S10s (amature not pro) and he's got one pushing 700+hp with stock s10 frame and no issues.
Although i will say lining up the front fenders, hood, & grill is kinda a pain in the but on the s10, but you'll be fighting that with the front clip as well.

[MMM...BRAINS...]

Oh, and as for the subframe....don't run the camaro clip. they're too wide. the g-body clips are better (from what i've read and messed with)

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by MMM...BRAINS...

Oh, and as for the subframe....don't run the camaro clip. they're too wide. the g-body clips are better (from what i've read and messed with)

camaro clips work fine if you use the right offset wheels. Also fatman fabrication
sells narrower tubular A arms.

[MMM...BRAINS...]

Originally Posted by mknittle

camaro clips work fine if you use the right offset wheels. Also fatman fabrication
sells narrower tubular A arms.

Yes, offset wheels will help. Every camaro clip I've seen always looks too wide. And for me personally, is rather not spend the extra on arms. Like i said, depends on what you want. I want low so I like that the s10 is narrow up front for tucking the wheels & still having turning radius.
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[mknittle]

Originally Posted by MMM...BRAINS...

Yes, offset wheels will help. Every camaro clip I've seen always looks too wide. And for me personally, is rather not spend the extra on arms. Like i said, depends on what you want. I want low so I like that the s10 is narrow up front for tucking the wheels & still having turning radius.
Posted via Mobile Device

S10s are too expensive here, Ratty wore out ones go for $1000 and the camaro was free. Also there is a ton of parts to make them handle.

[mknittle]

No really the s10 is a good way to go but they look too narrow to me. but if you like the huge wheels narrow good. i don't like them that much. just my opinion.
AS for turning radius I just checked mine with a 75 camaro clip and it could go 2" on a side without rubbing.

[BigDan3131]

A 454...hmm S-10 or stock with clip. How good are your welding skills and is your shop floor dead level? I would look into a whole new frame from Morrison or one of the others. That way you can order it exactly the way you want it. Have a desire to go wider or your tires? Plan to race it once in a while? The stock frame would need full boxing, the S-10 frame can handle a small block but wasn't meant for a BBC. If you don't mind welding up your own headers for the BBC go for it. With the kit you can use any front or rear suspension your budget allows for. Also you can order any amount of drop you want without bagging it or using drop springs, a-arms or blocks.

[MMM...BRAINS...]

S10s can be had plenty cheap. i picked up a runner for 500. sold off parts and MADE back my 500 + 35 and ive still got parts i can sell. so i'm UP and have all the parts i need. and yea, the narrow front isn't for all. that can also be fixed with the right wheels (like some chrome reverse wheels )

the S10 frame can handle a big block just fine. sure you may want to do some boxing for peice of mind, but it will handle it just fine. certainly just as good as the stock frame. BUT, that being said, stuffing a BBC on an
s10 frame under a AD-truck body would be a task by itself. it can be done, ive seen it. i wouldn't want to tackle it tho. haha.

BigDan is right about welding skills and leveling up everything. i clipped my origianl frame (g-body). my welding skills are decent and getting everything square was a task. i just wasn't happy with the clip and really got interested in the frame swap AND i found areas on my original frame that were rusted/tweaked/toast.
But my motivation for the frame swap is based more on a low ride height and than HP.
I will run a healthy SBC/700r4.

either way, have fun with it and learn.
Chris

[MMM...BRAINS...]

mknittle, just realized you said S10s were expensive where you live. i thought you meant across the board. sorry about that.

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by MMM...BRAINS...

mknittle, just realized you said S10s were expensive where you live. i thought you meant across the board. sorry about that.

That's ok,
I think what keeps the price up On S10s here is there are so many landscape maintenance people.
I think If I were to restart mine I would just build a frame.
The s10 is a great frame swap for most people.I just always do things the hard way.

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by BigDan3131

A 454...hmm S-10 or stock with clip. How good are your welding skills and is your shop floor dead level? I would look into a whole new frame from Morrison or one of the others. That way you can order it exactly the way you want it. Have a desire to go wider or your tires? Plan to race it once in a while? The stock frame would need full boxing, the S-10 frame can handle a small block but wasn't meant for a BBC. If you don't mind welding up your own headers for the BBC go for it. With the kit you can use any front or rear suspension your budget allows for. Also you can order any amount of drop you want without bagging it or using drop springs, a-arms or blocks.

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by BigDan3131

A 454...hmm S-10 or stock with clip. How good are your welding skills and is your shop floor dead level? I would look into a whole new frame from Morrison or one of the others. That way you can order it exactly the way you want it. Have a desire to go wider or your tires? Plan to race it once in a while? The stock frame would need full boxing, the S-10 frame can handle a small block but wasn't meant for a BBC. If you don't mind welding up your own headers for the BBC go for it. With the kit you can use any front or rear suspension your budget allows for. Also you can order any amount of drop you want without bagging it or using drop springs, a-arms or blocks.

I am a good fabricator and have worked as a mechanic for a logging company and another few years for a pole line co. and spent 20 years as a prototype machinist. I am 50 and I started welding when I was about 10 So I have a bit of mechanical experience. Oh yeah I have been building cars and 4X4s since high school.

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by Dan Bowles

I did an S10 with a '54.

Here's my HAMB thread: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=137385

Would I do it again? Yep. I start tomorrow. What motor? Maybe a 396. We have one...

I'm using the same set up. X cab frame shortened 5". Wider rear end. Got a disc brake set up with about 62" width via friend of my son. I'll clean it up, run the brake lines and exhaust without the cab on then go for it. It is already boxed so it should handle a mild BBC.

looks like fun

[LEEVON]

This is one of those neverending discussions. I don't think there are any bad choices as long as your workmanship is good. I chose to go with a Mustang 2 by TCI mainly because I wanted airbags. Otherwise I would have considered a nova clip. S-10 frame has it's merits too, but just is not my thing.

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by LEEVON

This is one of those neverending discussions. I don't think there are any bad choices as long as your workmanship is good. I chose to go with a Mustang 2 by TCI mainly because I wanted airbags. Otherwise I would have considered a nova clip. S-10 frame has it's merits too, but just is not my thing.

I agree with that statement 100%. It is a never ending discussion that is subject to personal taste. There is no right and wrong I've done mustang 2, nova, camaro, monte carlo, volares, and they all have their place. The only one I would not recommend is a volare because the bulky steering box makes you have to offset your engine, and aftermarket availability, but people I've done them for love them. Its up to the individual and what they are comfortable with.

I say do your research (like you are doing) and do what you are comfortable with. Just make sure what ever route you choose it is safe.

[Indian113]

If there's one person on this forum I would follow their advice it would be "The Truck Whisperer" He's done it and he's fixed some BIG mistakes other people have made. When he gets done with a frontend it will be safe and DONE RIGHT!!!

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by Kabwe

I agree with that statement 100%. It is a never ending discussion that is subject to personal taste. There is no right and wrong I've done mustang 2, nova, camaro, monte carlo, volares, and they all have their place. The only one I would not recommend is a volare because the bulky steering box makes you have to offset your engine, and aftermarket availability, but people I've done them for love them. Its up to the individual and what they are comfortable with.

I say do your research (like you are doing) and do what you are comfortable with. Just make sure what ever route you choose it is safe.

right and have fun doing it.

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by Indian113

If there's one person on this forum I would follow their advice it would be "The Truck Whisperer" He's done it and he's fixed some BIG mistakes other people have made. When he gets done with a frontend it will be safe and DONE RIGHT!!!

How can I find this "The Truck Whisperer" you speak of?

Originally Posted by mknittle

right and have fun doing it.

Yeah you got that right, thats why I like this forum so much. Its fun looking at others projects and sharing information. The well wishes are priceless and very motivating.

[Indian113]

[QUOTE=Kabwe;4899526]How can I find this "The Truck Whisperer" you speak of?



You don't have to look very hard or far-He goes by Kabwe. Honestly I feel your ability to correct some very bad jobs is great

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by Indian113

You don't have to look very hard or far-He goes by Kabwe. Honestly I feel your ability to correct some very bad jobs is great

Thank you very much and your compliments are truly appreciated but I'm a long way from the truck whisperer. There are a lot of amazingly talented guys on this forum and to think a lot of them are home builders is just mind blowing and inspirational. I'm a huge fan of the home builders.