One reason to LOVE your square!

[C30trailerspecial]

yep! gotta love it when the Jones next door have a flash rig yet still look over to see whats going on with your classic pick up, some how you know to yourself.... got em and got em good

[Skunksmash]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

You conveniently forgot to mention the huge price differences Not to mention on top of that you need a laptop, and $650 software, plus a $400 wideband setup, just to tune an LS fuel injection setup properly, or run it with a FAST controller setup and tune with that. Neither are cheap. Most don't want to make the huge investment.

Carbs are still the favorite among the hobbiest, for good reason, they are dirt cheap to work on and maintain. I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty and actually love the simplicity and cost of a carb setup. I've already mentioned how road side repairs are much easier too. Not to mention every LS engine test done so far, carbs rain supreme on the dyno Even with an aftermarket FAST setup.

I don't mean to sound like a carb nut, I'm actually on both sides of the fence as I work on both and I own and drive both. They both have their place and an argument can be made either way. Everyone has their preference and a pocket book to work with.

Yeah but you can download that software online for next to free now. Gone are the days of $650 tuning software. You can get just the software itself for around $30 now. And who doesn't own a laptop or a tablet or even a desktop pc these days? If you don't own a laptop then you run a long USB cable out the door or window. They even have smartphone apps now, although those do cost more than $30. Carbs are for just dumping gobs of fuel, EFI is for precision.

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by Skunksmash

Yeah but you can download that software online for next to free now. Gone are the days of $650 tuning software. You can get just the software itself for around $30 now. And who doesn't own a laptop or a tablet or even a desktop pc these days? If you don't own a laptop then you run a long USB cable out the door or window. They even have smartphone apps now, although those do cost more than $30. Carbs are for just dumping gobs of fuel, EFI is for precision.

Gone are alot of the people with the knowledge to properly tune a carb (sad to say). When done right they actually meter fuel rather efficiently. More to it then slapping it on, setting idle mixture and go. Rarely does a carb truely perform to it's potential right out of the box, even if they seem fine. You really need to play with air bleeds, power valves, power piston springs and idle feed restrictors to dial one in.

I don't see HPtuner anywhere for $30, and frankly that's all I'd recommend to use. Didn't care for LS1edit and sold it. It's nearly the same cost anyway. I wouldn't let anyone near my stuff with a USB cable and phone And you can't tune it on a tabletop PC either.

You need the cable as well as credits, and tuning can't be done properly without a wideband so that is another expense. So you need the cable setup that is wideband compatable (= more money). If you are tuning without a wideband, you're shooting in the dark. You need to log real time and make your changes. I can't even fathem trying to do that on a tablet or phone. Yikes! I'm too old to look at that tiny stuff sitting still, let alone driving down the road You need a large screen to bring up multiple sensors at one time.

Just the correct OBDII software USED still fetches $400 or more. That doesn't include the wideband, or a proper sized laptop to run it, or the credits needed to tune each car/truck.

About the only thing out there cheap as far as tuning computers is the old Moates Eprom flash software that you can download. Only works if you still run a TBI or TPI, but we are mainly talking about OBDII stuff here that's been around since 96. Lets face it, That's all most tuners are doing nowadays and it's the EFI to have. Quite frankly I wouldn't bother with a TBI or TPI fuel injection swap. Could be done on the cheap, but you get what you pay for. It's primitive batch fire stuff compared to todays EFI.

[Chevrolado]

There's something about the smell... the SMELL of the old motors burning fuel. The exhaust. The general feel of the whole thing.. You could probably get it in any older vehicle, but then you add in all the greatness of the truck body and interior setup and you just cant beat it. You get it all rolled into one.


*Disclaimer - Please no do not go out to your truck and sit behind the tailpipe breathing in as much as you can to try and get the "smell."

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by Chevrolado

There's something about the smell... the SMELL of the old motors burning fuel. The exhaust. The general feel of the whole thing.. You could probably get it in any older vehicle, but then you add in all the greatness of the truck body and interior setup and you just cant beat it. You get it all rolled into one.


*Disclaimer - Please no do not go out to your truck and sit behind the tailpipe breathing in as much as you can to try and get the "smell."

at that, funny stuff.

For those that want to know, fuel injection will smell the same way once you remove those cat converters.


And I don't mean to sound like I'm busting skunksmash's balls here. As I mentioned, I'm on both sides of the fence and own/drive both. Fuel injection is nice and I understand that, I really do. But carbs also have their place. There is good reason why they are still the most popular fuel metering device to use among the hot rodding crowd, and cost is a big factor of that. To say carbs are just for dumping gobs of fuel would be a fool hardy statement, and I mean that in the nicest way .

[chevybuilder18]

Originally Posted by HIGHWAY BY THE SEA

I have run into that problem with BOTH my trucks (other one is a 1978 Jeep J10). Someone even KNOCKED ON MY DOOR to ask the other day!

Got alot of these questions also

[Skunksmash]

Originally Posted by HIGHWAY BY THE SEA

Interest in our trucks makes us love them, but I HATE it when people are TOUCHING MY TRUCK in parking lots and other such places. I NEVER touch another person's vehicle without permission either.

That bothers me to no end. I NEVER touch cars I look at. How inconsiderate can a person be to go around touching stuff that isn't theirs.

Originally Posted by HIGHWAY BY THE SEA

I have run into that problem with BOTH my trucks (other one is a 1978 Jeep J10). Someone even KNOCKED ON MY DOOR to ask the other day!

You need to watch out. If your truck is generating that much interest, how long until someone comes along that isn't interested in paying for it? I'm so glad I live out in BFE behinds lots of trees and tall fence. If you've worked on them extensively you know how easy to steal these old trucks are. I'm a member of another site and about once a week we get a thread where someone has had their car stolen. I'd take preventative measures like installing one of those easy to use fuel system lockout switches. I saw one on my classic car where you just pull a big rid handle upwards. Of course its hidden and the thief will just think the car doesn't run or something. Some people call me paranoid but they're probably the ones who haven't had anything stolen from them. Yet.

[Rich84]

Firebird,
The tpi are cheap way to get your feet wet with fuel injection..to learn all the terminolgy etc. when this motor is ready to be replaced I would bet that there will be some cheap Ls software etc...Technolgy gets cheaper the older it gets.
Just got my 15 year old an IPhone 4 for .99...lol
Posted via Mobile Device

[greatwhite]

damn good point on relaiablity.
I have a 2007.5 2500hd....lights and bulbs cost an arm and a leg to replace. most stuff on newer trucks is dealer only for the time being as well, the motor has one computer, the tranny has another. There is an abuse mode limiter that keeps you from having all out power from and otherwise awesome motor. you get stuck going forward, you have nearly no reverse.

only had my 88 for a month...managed to fix a few minor wires and replaced the running lights with a few small nad very common bulbs and i was done. tuned the carb...starts easy, runs smooth. shifts smooth.

hard to beat simplicity. And this is coming from a 26 year old thats been around electronic controled trucks all his truck life

thats just me tho

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by Rich84

Firebird,
The tpi are cheap way to get your feet wet with fuel injection..to learn all the terminolgy etc. when this motor is ready to be replaced I would bet that there will be some cheap Ls software etc...Technolgy gets cheaper the older it gets.
Just got my 15 year old an IPhone 4 for .99...lol
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes sir, I agree completely. It will all get cheaper as it gets older. I'll be the first to tell you I owned an 88 Iroc 350 TPI and loved that car. That was back when LT1's were still fairly new on the market. Used Moates software to tune that stuff.

I never meant to implicate there was anything wrong with the older setups, they work and do their job. But like everything else related to technoligy, they keep improving it.

The other cost issues related to any fuel injection are things we don't really consider. Things like a bad fuel injector (8 of those things aren't that cheap) or the thought of dropping the fuel tank to install a fuel pump (not something you can do on the side of the road) and it gets expensive. Map sensors, MAF's, TPS, all things that can go funky and cost money too if you own a FI car long enough.

The small sensors can be a roadside repair, but without the software to diagnose it, (and you would need to carry it with you too), you'll just be guessing what the problem is. Carbed cars are easy to diagnose.

When we take trips in any of our LS powered cars, I take the lap top and software with me, (that's basically your modern day tool kit ) even if it's something I can't fix on the road, I'll know what it is.

I'm with the rest of you guys though too, I like simplicity and carbs are hard to beat in that respect. I still run points in 4 cars out here, that tells you how much I like simplicity

[Chevrolado]

Originally Posted by greatwhite

damn good point on relaiablity.
I have a 2007.5 2500hd....lights and bulbs cost an arm and a leg to replace. most stuff on newer trucks is dealer only for the time being as well, the motor has one computer, the tranny has another. There is an abuse mode limiter that keeps you from having all out power from and otherwise awesome motor. you get stuck going forward, you have nearly no reverse.

only had my 88 for a month...managed to fix a few minor wires and replaced the running lights with a few small nad very common bulbs and i was done. tuned the carb...starts easy, runs smooth. shifts smooth.

hard to beat simplicity. And this is coming from a 26 year old thats been around electronic controled trucks all his truck life

thats just me tho

Ah yes. I didnt even think of that. The parts cost! My daily driver BMW makes me cringe everytime something breaks or a new warning light comes on.. The simplest of parts are ridiculously priced, even when you have hookup through parts and distributors.

But then I go to order parts for my K10 build and Im like.. what?? I can get ALL of this stuff for the same price as that ONE part I bought last month for the 328? Yes!