First Time Swapper

[Billett]

Thanks to my other recent thread I've convinced myself I should definitely swap over to an LS if I want to continue DDing this truck. That said, I have a fair amount of experience, (for a young'n) with manual labor and I'm familiar with the way engines work, but truth be told I've never had one completely torn apart. Never had the chance to, my previous truck was my only form of transportation and thankfully it never broke down. The swap my brother and I did with his El Camino was just a 350 sbc to a 400 sbc that had already had a rebuild done by some friends so there was no need to take that apart either, and it was obviously very straightforward.

What can I say, I like to dive in headfirst.

Right now I'm aiming for a budget build with a good all-around setup in mind. I'm fully aware that you can't have your cake and eat it to so tell me what you guys think of this. I've read through several build threads and looked through a lot of the lsx swap index page, but for me most of it doesn't make sense yet because I don't actually have an engine yet. That's where you guys come in. I've been a part of quite a few forums and I've never seen so many people happy to help one another, but I figured I'd test your patience again anyway

The goals are: better fuel economy, decent power, more reliable, budget. Fuel economy is actually the easy part of this. I get 11mpg now so any ls engine will be a boost. I thought about doing a 5.3 which might get me a few more mpgs, but since this is on a budget and I'd like a little more power to go with it I think a bone stock 6.0 will be better for me. As long as the engine is solid I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be more reliable than my currant 350. As far as cost, like I said, I'm probably going to keep it stock at this point. From what I've read the thing that costs most people money is go-fast parts. I've already scoped out plenty of future changes I'd like to do, but I have a bit of a problem.

I'm getting married next June.

Wedding is going to be a country style, backyard BBQ type get together. The future Mrs. and I don't want anything expensive or fancy, we just want everyone to have a good time, so it shouldn't be expensive, but I still need to have the money for it.

I've seen on the swap cost thread where a few people have done 5.3 or 4.8 swaps for under $3k. I currently have an 87 350 sbc with an np435 in a 68 lwb fleetside, power steering, 4 corner drums, no AC, tank still behind the seat, dropped 2".

Is it possible to swap a stock 6.0L and a 4L80E into my truck for thereabouts of $3000, ($4k max), or should I quit while I'm just dreaming.

[Wasted Income]

It will be close. I think to hit your $3k goal, you will have to either cut corners, or find some incredible deals.

Hate to burst your bubble, but I'd hate to see you get stuck or have it snowball into credit card debt.

That said, I think you'd be VERY pleasantly surprised with how much power a "stock" 5.3 has. It will make your 87 350 feel like a turd. Plus, you'll get in the game much cheaper than with a 6.0.

My first LS swap was going from a '94 350 in my 69 C-10 to a '99 5.3/4L60E. AMAZING difference....power, fuel economy, sound, looks, and ease to work on. I scored that 5.3, complete from intake to pan, with ECM, coils, accessories, wiring harness, for $500. Prices have gone up quite a bit since then (8 years ago). I just sold that same 5.3 yesterday as a long block (no accessories, coils, ecm, wiring, flexplate) for $300.

Anyway, your best bet is to find a COMPLETE take-out engine. It will *seem* to cost more up front, but tracking down all the little odds and ends is a pain in the ass. (coils, accessories, manifolds, coolant crossovers, sensors, etc).

If you can do a lot of the stuff yourself, that will also help your cause. Motor mounts, harness rework, tuning (even though you're looking at $500-700 to get in the game with EFILive + wideband). Lots of variables for sure.

I hope it works out for you, and if you pull the trigger, there's lots of smart guys on this board who've been down the road before to ask for help.

Good luck!

[Billett]

I really am considering the 5.3 but there were a few things holding me back. Number one is that no one has ever said to me "Ya know, I wish I had bought a smaller engine." I'd want to swap it out to the 6.0 and start bolting on parts eventually anyway, so I'd rather start there. I know it would be almost a direct swap from a 5.3 to a 6.0, but it's the hassle of doing it again. On the other hand I can probably get a 5.3 and trans for just the price of a complete lq4...

I definitely want to buy the engine all together. There's a bare 6.0 block for $250 up on my local CL, but like you said, buying all of the other parts would end up being far more expensive and I'd be more inclined to buy go fast parts instead of getting it running. There's an 08 6.0 with 25k plus a 4l80 with 100k on it on my local CL. No price just make an offer, but a 6.0 alone is up on here for $1200. I'm thinking my budget may have to be closer to $4000 to make this feasible.

I can definitely do the work myself. I hate paying shops to screw things up for me. If I put it together I know whose fault it was when it breaks down. I plan to just cut whatever I don't need off of the harness instead of buying a new one. I'm fine with wiring diagrams so it shouldn't be too bad. I do want to learn how to tune, but I'll probably buy the equipment and software and then take it somewhere for the initial tune. Fab work shouldn't be a problem either. My uncle owns a shop so I know he can help me out with a few things like the motor mounts.

[BR3W CITY]

My swap is done and my girlfriend is still waiting for a ring after 9yrs today.....I guess I got my priorities right


On topic tho; the 5.3, tho smaller than the 6.0 is still a top-notch motor, and totally accepted as a performance and swap engine. Its not like getting a smog 305 instead of a 400, its more like getting a 327 instead of a 400. (DISCLAIMER, that comparison is not mathematically correct, but provides the correct message).

The 5.3 is readily available with a 4l60e already behind it, this benefits you in 2 ways. First, you don't have to track down a 6.0 and 4l80e together (since many 6.0 trucks were with 4l60es, this would mean you'd have to locate and purchase a seperate trans), and the obvious cost savings of buying as a package.

The 5.3 with a cam package will sit comfortably in the 330-370whp range, assuming all the supporting parts are in good order. This is well over what the 350 would be at, and doing so through an overdrive tranny, giving you averages from 15-21 mpg (lots of factors in that).

Your budget is a bit tight, but I think a stock-parts 5.3 swap is doable under 3-4k. If you plan, re-do your own harness, and don't have to do any rebuilding it shouldn't be terribly difficult to do so. Things like fittings add up fast, so planning on the fuel system, trans plumbing etc is very helpful in stayin on budget.

You'll need to have the PCM sent out or tuned locally to remove the VATS and emissions components. Learning to tune is awesome, but is better timed AFTER the swap is running. You'll end up frustrated if you have to worry about the mechanicals of the swap, in addition to teaching yourself tuning, plus trying to keep your now-legally-entitled to half your stuff significant other happy.

[thotfulspot]

Here is a good place to start;

http://www.car-part.com/

Salvage yard database. Use Wikipedia to find out what came in what vehicle and when. You'll have to scroll down to V8 to get to the details;

http://http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortec

You can also search on LS if you want to see the car motors. Enter in one of the vehicles listed in Wikipedia. Select engine (some come with trans or you can search separate). Select distance to find the closest. You'll get a list of salvage yards and most put notes about the part. When you put in a vehicle it will use all vehicles that had that VIN code. Try to get the whole thing with wiring and ECU. You can then have the wiring harness and ECU flashed. Your other choice is to just buy a harness as long as the sensors are there.

I haven't used these guys, but they have a lot of information;

http://www.lsx4u.com/home.html

Same type of thing. They are a truck salvage yard and they created the site to sell the engine and transmission pullouts.
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[thotfulspot]

And my wife has been waiting 22 years for a ring.
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[Roostboy102]

From what I've read, a 6.0 and 4L80 will not be getting you good gas mileage. I went for a 4.8 (from a budget mindset) and an NV3500 5 speed manual. It's not the big parts that get you! Little things keep adding up! I'm thinking I'm going to be just under $2500, spending where I needed to for reliability but no performance upgrades.

[ivorton74]

I plan on doin the same swap in my 74. I too thought about the 6.0 but fuel economy is not as good as a 5.3 or 4.8 not to mention the 6.0s cost a bit more. Justchevytrucks.com sell the complete LS package...any LS engine complete with stand alone harness and reflashed pcm for about $1000 depending on engine mileage...u can get a tranny too for a bit more. I'm tryin to save up and get my motor from them....that way I don't have to worry about doing the wiring and sending the pcm to be reflashed( which cost about $600 altogether if im not mistaking)...I never did a swap like this before either...except in my Datsun back home and that was way easier...good luck bro and be sure to make a build thread when u start the swap. Don't be afraid to ask questions

[Indian113]

In all Honesty,I think after driving my S10 with a 5.3 I don't know if I would notice the 10 or 15 hp difference of a 4.8-5.3. I realize I have a stock tune and the only thing we did was put on a high performance air cleaner set up and used a HP tuner. That 5.3 has more power than I really need,would I change it now/NO WAY

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

My swap is done and my girlfriend is still waiting for a ring after 9yrs today.....I guess I got my priorities right

Originally Posted by thotfulspot

And my wife has been waiting 22 years for a ring.

Don't listen to these guys, Billett...

If you do it right, your play money increases after marriage.

Mine did at least! (she makes more than I do, and doesn't mind that I spend it on boats and trucks )

[Billett]

haha good to hear. I doubt she'll make more money than me, but she has started to show some more interest in working on and driving these old cars and trucks more. She's actually behind me on the swap at the moment. She wants to do a cross country trip for a honeymoon and instead of taking her hybrid civic with 45 mpg she said she'd much rather take the truck. If I can double the mpg it's just a bonus.

At the moment I'm just planning for the swap in general. I feel like I can plan for one engine or the other, but it will really depend on what I can get the best deal on. Have any of you guys gotten your engines from car-part.com or lkq corp? There's an lkq junkyard right here in philly with a few of each. Don't know if they do engines and transmissions together though.

[ls1nova71]

Originally Posted by Wasted Income

she makes more than I do, and doesn't mind that I spend it.....

I think this is more the exception than the rule.... Sorry, I coudln't help myself.

[Billett]

I'm found a jasper rebuilt lq4 for $1200 or a junkyard one for $1100, lq9 for $1000 that needs a harness (theres an uncut harness on CL here for $150), L33 for $900, LM7 for $600. There's two 4l80es in my area as well on CL one for $200 and another for $420. Both 90's models. Any good deals you guys would jump on? The LM7 is obviously the cheapest by far, but I thought $1150 for an lq9 wasn't bad

[Jon01]

Do any come with harnesses, PCM's and accessories?
You will want to buy one as complete as possible or you will have a small fortune wrapped up in the odds and ends.

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by ls1nova71

I think this is more the exception than the rule.... Sorry, I coudln't help myself.

Originally Posted by Wasted Income

If you do it right

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

Things like fittings add up fast, so planning on the fuel system, trans plumbing etc is very helpful in stayin on budget.

Holy crap, that is no joke....I just made the mistake of looking at my build spreadsheet... Hurtful, and I expected to have to only pay about half of this, but I now have a 1300 hp capable fuel system I can grow into.

[Billett]

See that's the biggest thing with my swap. I don't even need a 500hp capable system at the moment. Just a running one. Fittings will definitely add up fast. I've been checking out usmcchevy's parts list for his 4.8 build and the majority of his cost was in those sorts of odds and ends.

[Billett]

I just found someone 10 miles out from me that's willing to sell an lq4 for 700 with accessories. He took it apart to bore it out but gave up on the project. Supposedly running before he took it apart, but I'd take my mechanic with me to look it over before I buy anyway. No harness on this one, not sure about the pcm or ecm. I'm a little leery as he didn't send me a pic looking into the cylinders...

[Wasted Income]

UGH. That would be a great deal if it hadn't been torn apart already.

You're going to have a couple hundred in just stock TTY head and rod bolts to get it back together.

I always cringe when guys want to take apart a perfectly good running junkyard engine "to check it out".

I have personally pulled an 100k+ mile LQ4 out of the junkyard....cleaned it up, cammed it, and stuffed it in a jet boat and ran it WFO down the river for 10 miles at a clip. It still runs great. Point being, if it runs, leave it alone and abuse the **** out of it. Most machine shops around here want $1000 for a disassembly, cleaning, and inspection....are you kidding me??

I'd personally stay away from that engine.

[Jon01]

That story seems suspect - looks like that motor has f-body accys which means balancer too.
700 no harness means $1200 with harness/pcm. You can buy higher mileage dropouts for not much more than that complete and assembled.

[Billett]

Didn't even think about that. Not to mention if I were to do it I'd get APR ones instead anyway. My brother and Uncle use them on every engine they pull apart.

[Jon01]

I would not recommend replacing rod bolts without having the rods resized while it's apart.
People do it but they're really riding the lightning IMO.

[Billett]

I did find this harness

http://cnj.craigslist.org/pts/3632898270.html

but finding a separate pcm has me worried. I think one of the car-part.com pull outs will probably be my best bet, like you guys have said. Eh oh well, never hurts to look.

Did find this too, but no price listed.

http://delaware.craigslist.org/pts/3604249408.html

[tinydb84]

I was debating between a blown 496 (have the blower and stock 454) or an ls swap. After looking at the costs, gas, and reliability I decided to sell the blower (still hasnt sold yet..) and go with a 4.8 with a used ls9 cam. I figure that with a 4l60 and new rear gears I can out run my old 454 no prob and have half the cost of building the 496.

Granted I won't make 700 HP but I can turbo it down the road. Check out the turbo forum for some crazy stuff they do with STOCK ls bottom ends.

Ps from your earlier post go with the L33.
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[Indian113]

At the moment I'm just planning for the swap in general. I feel like I can plan for one engine or the other, but it will really depend on what I can get the best deal on. Have any of you guys gotten your engines from car-part.com or lkq corp? There's an lkq junkyard right here in philly with a few of each. Don't know if they do engines and transmissions together though

I used carpart.com,I called them and talked directly with a salesman. I asked if they had any takeouts like I wanted. He said they had just got one in and would take it out for me while I watched. I could have any thing I wanted or needed off of the truck to go with motor. I also got a lower mileage motor than what they had advertised on carpart. Call them all they can do is tell you NO

[Wasted Income]

car-part.com is just an index / network of salvage yards across the country. I don't believe that THEY sell anything, they just list what individual yards have.

I've called my local yards, and negotiated cheaper prices than what they had listed on car-part. They will usually come down $100-150 in my experience.