Ball joint to big for LCA...

[Baker819]

This is all about my 1969 C10 swb fleetside

I bought new upper and lower control arms (Dorman) from CPP because my stockers had bad threads for the bushings. And I am using Moog K6023 lower ball joints.

I have never installed lower ball joints before but I did a bunch of research on installation (because I certainly didn't want to buy A-arms again) so I went forth with installing the lower A-arms.

I am an apprentice machinist buy trade and should have measured the parts before install... I didn't. I aligned the first ball joint with the arm and pressed it in half way with a standard installation tool.

I went to my uncles house for him to double check my work because I had it pressed half way in and it seemed like it was 3/64" crooked. He said if it was that far in than it would self align which made since but I was unsure. We pressed it the rest of the way and the ball joint only touched the LCA in one spot (maybe 1/2" wide) and the there was about a 1/32" gap the rest of the way around. Does this sound normal?

When we went to press the other ball joint in it seemed like it was just to big so we measured everything. The ball joint was 1.976" and the hole was 1.956 on the top of the hole and 1.935 on the bottom (where you start to press the ball joint in). These measurements are with 85% of the paint removed.

This makes me wonder if I distorted the other LCA if I pressed the ball joint in with out fixing the hole first. All the metal has to go some where.

I know its just a stamped hole in the LCA and I am not expecting perfection for the company who made them. I plan to at least clean the hole up with some hones I have and get it the same size all the way down. The big question I am unsure of is what clearance should I have between the LCA and the ball joint. At the ship yard we press lots of stuff that costs tons of money and normally have the pieces the same size or .001-.002"clearance between the two. I know the ball joint has splines on it and that is completely new to me... I'm not sure how that effects the clearance requirement.

I would just call Moog but its Saturday night and I don't want to wait that long haha. Thank you for any help you can provide. I know a lot of people would worry about some of my "issues" but I really want to learn the correct way instead of messing things up for years and years. I also never plan on selling my truck so I want to do it correct.

[sduckworth13]

The ball joint needs to sit flush. When I pulled my ball joints out of my lower control arms, they weren't pressed in all the way by whoever installed them or worked them self out. Not real sure, but sure glad I got them changed out.

[Baker819]

I called my boss and he said because of the "straight knurl" that is the correct term instead of splines. He said the hole should be .010-.020" smaller than the ball joint because of the straight knurling.

So unless you guys disagree or add some thing else in I will true the hole up and make it .020" smaller and press it in.

He feels because I thought the other ball joint seemed to fit the hole a little better that it is probably close enough where it shouldn't be a problem.

[sduckworth13]

"Close enough" always scares me personally, I want it done right. It really needs to sit flush.

[Baker819]

Scott, so are yours perfectly seated now? No gap any where around the ball joint to LCA seat?

I had a professional auto shop press ball joints in for me before and I measure a gap as big as .038" and they said it was completely fine because they had completely seated, as the ball joint came to a hard spot and didn't want to press any farther in.

Moog started putting the straight knurling on the ball joint to help the ball joints stay in place with our older trucks... maybe one reason yours weren't seated was because the hole in the LCA was a little worn...

[sduckworth13]

Originally Posted by Baker819

Scott, so are yours perfectly seated now? No gap any where around the ball joint to LCA seat?

I had a professional auto shop press ball joints in for me before and I measure a gap as big as .038" and they said it was completely fine because they had completely seated, as the ball joint came to a hard spot and didn't want to press any farther in.

Moog started putting the straight knurling on the ball joint to help the ball joints stay in place with our older trucks... maybe one reason yours weren't seated was because the hole in the LCA was a little worn...

Yes, my lower ball joints are seated flush all the way around. I used the ball joint install kit from Advance Auto parts to install them.

[Baker819]

I hear you on the "close enough" not sitting well with you. It doesn't sit well with me either. I plan to use my truck a lot and never have plans of selling it. I would rather replace parts that I thought were bad than wreck and pay hospital bills.

I feel decent about my boss saying the ball joint was close enough because he feels like it was probably only an extra .010" smaller (LCA) than optimum and I had no visible damage. And like he and the shop said about the ball joints seating... that it is not a precision thing, the ball joints move by design and .040" off won't hurt them.

What would you do in my situation? Press the ball joint back out and measure the hole which is know knurled and probably slightly larger than before?
I appreciate your input

[sduckworth13]

Originally Posted by Baker819

I hear you on the "close enough" not sitting well with you. It doesn't sit well with me either. I plan to use my truck a lot and never have plans of selling it. I would rather replace parts that I thought were bad than wreck and pay hospital bills.

I feel decent about my boss saying the ball joint was close enough because he feels like it was probably only an extra .010" smaller (LCA) than optimum and I had no visible damage. And like he and the shop said about the ball joints seating... that it is not a precision thing, the ball joints move by design and .040" off won't hurt them.

What would you do in my situation? Press the ball joint back out and measure the hole which is know knurled and probably slightly larger than before?
I appreciate your input

I wouldn't pull them back out, I'd suggest trying to close up the little gap left. If it doesn't go in any further then that's all you can ask for, but I'd like to have them flush if it was me.

[sduckworth13]

I did use a super long breaker bar to get the ball joint to sit flush.

[Baker819]

Believe me I strived really hard to get them perfectly seated. I must have spent at least two hours trying to seat the first one. I ended up temporarily mounting the a-arm on the truck so I could hold it from spinning while I tightened the clamp. I think I might have bottomed out the ball joint against my pressing tool. I kept checking it with allen wrench in the gap (where it would seat eventually), but it was half way in when it lightly bottomed out on my setup. So I wasn't sure how I could correct it or knock out of alignment at that point... either way I am bummed if they weren't going to be seated perfect I would have rather just had a shop do it and save me all the time to learn it since I won't be doing it to many times.

[Baker819]

Hmmmm... well did it touch in one spot before it touched all the way around?

[sduckworth13]

Originally Posted by Baker819

Believe me I strived really hard to get them perfectly seated. I must have spent at least two hours trying to seat the first one. I ended up temporarily mounting the a-arm on the truck so I could hold it from spinning while I tightened the clamp. I think I might have bottomed out the ball joint against my pressing tool. I kept checking it with allen wrench in the gap (where it would seat eventually), but it was half way in when it lightly bottomed out on my setup. So I wasn't sure how I could correct it or knock out of alignment at that point... either way I am bummed if they weren't going to be seated perfect I would have rather just had a shop do it and save me all the time to learn it since I won't be doing it to many times.

Here is a picture of my lower ball joint.

[sduckworth13]

Originally Posted by Baker819

Hmmmm... well did it touch in one spot before it touched all the way around?

Yes it did, it took a little bit of work to get it seated all the way around.

[Baker819]

Wow I wasn't expecting you to go take a picture of it. Thank you but I believed you. That's a beautiful thing... fully seated

[sduckworth13]

Originally Posted by Baker819

Wow I wasn't expecting you to go take a picture of it. Thank you but I believed you. That's a beautiful thing... fully seated

No problem, glad it helps you out.

[Baker819]

Originally Posted by sduckworth13

Yes it did, it took a little bit of work to get it seated all the way around.

Okay that is helpful to know. In my head I feel like it isn't good enough unless it is seated 100%. I have taken out my feeler gauges to check because I wanted it all the way seated. I have had several professional mechanics tell me if the ball joint touches part of the seat and it becomes hard than it is good and needs to be pressed in no further. I am curious still and will ask around some more and find out what different mechanics say on having it seat 100% vs only having the ball joint touch the seat in one spot. I feel mechanics are the same as doctors... you can ask 10 different doctors a question and you could get 10 different answers. And it is nice to get multiple opinions

[sduckworth13]

You also can use some lube around the ball joint to make it easier to seat.

[Baker819]

Good point I forgot to mention that I used Kroil Oil on them. I was considering my options and went with that instead of a paste because I knew it was going to be really tight. I also checked for burrs.

[sduckworth13]

Good luck getting your ball joints seated.