Replacing 6 cylinder with V8 and super T-10

[frankslagoon]

I've done 4 Saginaw V8 form 6 cly. 3 sps. I always use the cast bellhousing The first one I just hung the tranny off like the 3 sp. I broke the ears off on both of em. When I mod. the ebrake crossmember to mount the 4 speed, I had no problem except the usaual Saginaw POS problems. we had to make a small ext. plate for the shift lever to move the handle foreward for the bench seat trks. But hurst does make a shift handle that the tri 5 chevys used, probably mentioned already

[Captainfab]

You can go either way. Either keep the original cast iron bellhousing and hang the T10 on the back of it, or do away with the original bellhousing and crossmember and add a trans crossmember. A trans crossmember from a '63-'87 truck will work. If you go with a rear trans crossmember, it will be easiest to convert your e-brake cables to the '66-'72 style. That is unless said truck is a '66.......you didn't say in post #1. I have run a M21 hung off the back of the stock cast iron bellhousing with no issues.

[thunder71]

Yes the truck is a 1966 the one as my avatar...captainfab I installed the power steering adaptor plate with ease and got the 68 power steering box all bolted up to the ididit tilt column...it's going to be nice when motor swap is complete...very nice plate you build and I highly recommend it to all that want to do this modification to the old c10's...I am going to be looking at using the cast bell a little closer...
Frankslagoon::: I'm trying to understand what you are saying about breaking the ears off your transmission...lets talk more about that.

[frankslagoon]

No one else seems to have a problem breaken the ears, I guess. But it happened twice when I just hung the 4 speed off the bellhousing. the mounting ears that bolt to the bellhousing on the tranny case broke. we figured the tranny was just heavier than the 3 speeds. and add a V8 and a lead foot and , you know the drill.Acually the 4 sp. sag. and the 3 sp. are not that much different. I don,t remember if the 3 sp. sag hangs free or not. Another thing I hear the guys talk about is ya can't use three mounting pts. The motor mounts, bellhousing mounts and tranny cross member mounts. I have always done it this way with no problems.

[andyh1956]

Be sure the front brg retainer of your trans fits the bore properly on the clutch housing. There are two different sizes & adapter rings are available to mate small retainers to large bores.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by frankslagoon

No one else seems to have a problem breaken the ears, I guess. But it happened twice when I just hung the 4 speed off the bellhousing. the mounting ears that bolt to the bellhousing on the tranny case broke. we figured the tranny was just heavier than the 3 speeds. and add a V8 and a lead foot and , you know the drill.Acually the 4 sp. sag. and the 3 sp. are not that much different. I don,t remember if the 3 sp. sag hangs free or not. Another thing I hear the guys talk about is ya can't use three mounting pts. The motor mounts, bellhousing mounts and tranny cross member mounts. I have always done it this way with no problems.

there is a difference between 3 point mounting and 3 position mounting. 3 point, 1 on each side of engine and 1 at the rear of trans. 1 in front and 1 on each side of b/housing. 4 point as on 63 - 66 except for a/t; 1 on each side of block and 1 on each side of b/housing. you do not want to mount at side of eng , b/housing and rear trans
ron

[frankslagoon]

Well, I'm said some guys say it doesn't work. But I've had 3 V8 4 sp. and my brother had one also, with the motor mounts bellhousing and tranny mount. No problems.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by frankslagoon

Well, I'm said some guys say it doesn't work. But I've had 3 V8 4 sp. and my brother had one also, with the motor mounts bellhousing and tranny mount. No problems.

there are guys that wear both suspenders and a belt at the same time.
not to say that it won't work but that it is not required. if you get good alignment and everything lines up after tightening all down without any stress, but you have no way of knowing that. could take quite a while before that stress prevails and it eventually will. perhaps you got lucky or you sold the vehicle soon after
ron

[thunder71]

So will my complete setup as I pulled it out of the camaro fit without using the original bell housing crossmember as support? Or will it be in the way of something ? I know the camaro crossmember will fit perfect from my measurements...it was all working well from the factory like this...the c10 was built as a truck I know but it's bed and hauling days are long gone and I'm thinking of its future...

[andyh1956]

If you use the camaro clutch housing you will have to remove the old support. I wish I had as much energy as you kids have to do un-necessary work!

[thunder71]

Yes this 58 year old kid wants to get it right...no need to do things twice like some of you old timers that are lazy and stuck in your ways...my transmission has holes for a mount from the factory for a reason I'm thinking....

[andyh1956]

Go for it! I'm not stuck in my ways as much as I don't see the need to re-engineer a proven system to be less strong. But I hope it works out xactly like you want it & gives good service!

[thunder71]

yes my parts are engineered by GM to work as a unit and was working great when removed from the Camaro ...if i install it like it came out and not have to worry about making old truck parts work will be fine with me ...so trying to re-engineer what the general done for the Camaro which was and is a great car in my eyes is not making a lot of since...yes it is mine and i made this thread for some feedback and got very little... i know others have done the same thing with installing a rear cross member and was trying getting ideas ...thanks for your input...

[frankslagoon]

I'm sure using the Camaro stuff will work great. the way I understand it is you do have to remove the bellhousing crossmember . I guess it's in the way.? I thought you got a hell of a lot of good feedback actually. take what you can use and forget about the rest.

[thunder71]

Yes removing the crossmember will not be a problem and it will open up some space and take away a chunk of weight plus the old bell is very heavy...I know my 1971 Z28 drag car has 2 mounts on the motor and one on the power glide and makes some good power with no problems on solid mounts...if it was such a good system why don't the nascar boys just hang the transmission??? Are the newer trucks hanging manual transmissions??? If so which ones...

[Captainfab]

As said above, you will have to remove the bellhousing crossmember. If the Camaro trans crossmember positions the rear of the trans too high or two low, you might try a '63-'87 truck auto trans crossmember. Also, in doing away with the original bellhousing and it's mounts, I would suggest upgrading the original style engine mounts.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by thunder71

Yes this 58 year old kid wants to get it right...no need to do things twice like some of you old timers that are lazy and stuck in your ways...my transmission has holes for a mount from the factory for a reason I'm thinking....

funny how it is always the younger ones with a bit of lip. as I said before you were the one asking questions. I also said that you could go either way and some guys do; doesn't bother me, your choice. I gave you my thoughts. I had made an engine swap before you were filling your diapers. while it doesn't make me any smarter it may give me more experience at it. I also spent 15 tears in the industry back then. did you buy your race car or build it yourself. what the cap says is right on.
even though I had a pacemaker installed about 7 hours ago I think my message is clear. got by heart back beating where it should be from where it was beating at 35 beats per minute.
ron

[thunder71]

Yeah I know a lot of the old timers that think there way is the best way and there is no other way...times have changed over the years and back then you done what you thought was right and so did Chevy but then they even found better ways instead ...sometimes the younger guys have some ideas that the old guys should listen to...I guess when you live in the past and don't want to better things it don't matter...I did build my race car along with others .i have been doing cars and trucks along time I just have not got as many years behind me as when your diapers where being filled...this is the modern day and age ...if hanging a ALUMINUM transmission is the best way then WHY was it not being used in all applications??? Why would that be??? Why did the camaro ,Chevelle ,nova,Impala etc. have a rear crossmember holding it up for support??? Would it be maybe it was a better design??? GENERAL MOTORS FIGURED IT OUT...thanks for all responses to my original question and it helped me to understand what I need to do.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by thunder71

Yeah I know a lot of the old timers that think there way is the best way and there is no other way...times have changed over the years and back then you done what you thought was right and so did Chevy but then they even found better ways instead ...sometimes the younger guys have some ideas that the old guys should listen to...I guess when you live in the past and don't want to better things it don't matter...I did build my race car along with others .i have been doing cars and trucks along time I just have not got as many years behind me as when your diapers where being filled...this is the modern day and age ...if hanging a ALUMINUM transmission is the best way then WHY was it not being used in all applications??? Why would that be??? Why did the camaro ,Chevelle ,nova,Impala etc. have a rear crossmember holding it up for support??? Would it be maybe it was a better design??? GENERAL MOTORS FIGURED IT OUT...thanks for all responses to my original question and it helped me to understand what I need to do.

there is usually one answer and that is "economics" my dear boy. Why have 2 different crossmembers when we can do it with one. once the aluminum a/t was introduced most everything went rear mount, production $ costs!
most things in the future had their roots in the past
"Simple is hard, elaborate is easy" CF Voysey
ron

[thunder71]

Then we have cheap old guys living in the past...my truck was built like a tractor and that will change to more modern technology. ..if hanging transmissions off the bell was great it would still be like that...there is always a better way...you talk but can't seem to read,maybe some glasses my old friend......
..

[padresag]

Originally Posted by thunder71

Then we have cheap old guys living in the past...my truck was built like a tractor and that will change to more modern technology. ..if hanging transmissions off the bell was great it would still be like that...there is always a better way...you talk but can't seem to read,maybe some glasses my old friend......
..

I will end it here by saying that your mouth seems bigger than your truck.
cheers
ron

[66Submarine]

Originally Posted by thunder71

I have pulled my old 250 and 3 speed transmission and have a 350 with a super T-10 out of a 1971 camaro That I am going to install and was wondering about the stock crossmember for the 3 speed. Does it need to come out ? I have a crossmember from the second gen camaro I am hoping I can make work. Will the stock one be in the way? Do you think the 4 speed shifter will work with my bench seat ? I'm getting close to being ready to slip it in and curious about the crossmember.

So, this is your first post.

Originally Posted by thunder71

So why is it all cars have a rear crossmember and the trans bolts to it? I have the polyurethane motor mounts to fit the truck along with the transmission mount...I had a 66 c10 short bed years ago someone installed a turbo 350 and it had the crossmember at the tail like normal cars do and if I remember they torched the factory bell housing member out...so if I bolt it to the factory bell housing mounts and run the $hit out of it with 4-500 hp it will hold up? I have a small blower and a sbc 434 for the future.

Second. You say you had one someone put a TH350 in and it was mounted...like a TH350? Ok.

Originally Posted by thunder71

So your saying I will need a new starter? Has anybody here used a rear transmission crossmember ever? Why would this be the bad or wrong way to do this swap...lets here from some of you that have done this and what did you have to do or modify for this swap...I am a welder fabricator and do it for a living so fab work is no big deal...I am just building me a hot rod to go with my others...not a race truck but street rod...this is for racing

And you heard from several people that have done it. You do this for a living?

Originally Posted by thunder71

So will my complete setup as I pulled it out of the camaro fit without using the original bell housing crossmember as support? Or will it be in the way of something ? I know the camaro crossmember will fit perfect from my measurements...it was all working well from the factory like this...the c10 was built as a truck I know but it's bed and hauling days are long gone and I'm thinking of its future...

How does putting something in the bed affect engine mounting? If anything the truck stuff is stronger, since it was going to be constantly beat on.

Originally Posted by thunder71

Yes this 58 year old kid wants to get it right...no need to do things twice like some of you old timers that are lazy and stuck in your ways...my transmission has holes for a mount from the factory for a reason I'm thinking....

Yes...because that was the way it was originally mounted. So, no need to do things twice? Why use any of this? None of it was intended for anything remotely resembling a blown 434 with a clutch. And then what about future upgrades? Why not build a new 4130 frame, Lenco, etc?

Originally Posted by thunder71

yes my parts are engineered by GM to work as a unit and was working great when removed from the Camaro ...if i install it like it came out and not have to worry about making old truck parts work will be fine with me ...so trying to re-engineer what the general done for the Camaro which was and is a great car in my eyes is not making a lot of since...yes it is mine and i made this thread for some feedback and got very little... i know others have done the same thing with installing a rear cross member and was trying getting ideas ...thanks for your input...

The setup you are describing was so great that GM quit using it in '73 and put straps on older stuff as part of a recall? If you used the original parts there would be no "making them work", you just assemble and go.

Originally Posted by thunder71

Yes removing the crossmember will not be a problem and it will open up some space and take away a chunk of weight plus the old bell is very heavy...I know my 1971 Z28 drag car has 2 mounts on the motor and one on the power glide and makes some good power with no problems on solid mounts...if it was such a good system why don't the nascar boys just hang the transmission??? Are the newer trucks hanging manual transmissions??? If so which ones...

Solid mounts? FWIW...those don't pull apart like the OE rubber ones did. You know GM also went to leaf springs in '73 and stopped using the trailing arms that the NASCAR stuff uses? And used torsion bar front suspension '60-'62?

Originally Posted by thunder71

Yeah I know a lot of the old timers that think there way is the best way and there is no other way...times have changed over the years and back then you done what you thought was right and so did Chevy but then they even found better ways instead ...sometimes the younger guys have some ideas that the old guys should listen to...I guess when you live in the past and don't want to better things it don't matter...I did build my race car along with others .i have been doing cars and trucks along time I just have not got as many years behind me as when your diapers where being filled...this is the modern day and age ...if hanging a ALUMINUM transmission is the best way then WHY was it not being used in all applications??? Why would that be??? Why did the camaro ,Chevelle ,nova,Impala etc. have a rear crossmember holding it up for support??? Would it be maybe it was a better design??? GENERAL MOTORS FIGURED IT OUT...thanks for all responses to my original question and it helped me to understand what I need to do.

LOL. How is making extra work to get the same (or worse) result better? If you have been doing this so long why don't you know how? Never seen how the 55-57's mount or the shifter used for bench seats? And so if I get everyone to hit their genitalia with a hammer that would be the best thing as a result? GM didn't always "spare no expense" when doing things (especially if they thought there was no reason).

Originally Posted by padresag

there is usually one answer and that is "economics" my dear boy. Why have 2 different crossmembers when we can do it with one. once the aluminum a/t was introduced most everything went rear mount, production $ costs!
most things in the future had their roots in the past
"Simple is hard, elaborate is easy" CF Voysey
ron

So you read that.

Originally Posted by thunder71

Then we have cheap old guys living in the past...my truck was built like a tractor and that will change to more modern technology. ..if hanging transmissions off the bell was great it would still be like that...there is always a better way...you talk but can't seem to read,maybe some glasses my old friend......
..

LOL. The irony is almost too great. No offense. You have a good one man, this is why I rarely waste time posting anymore.

[thunder71]

So much better...amazing what a little work will do for ya