Shockwave/Camaro clip possible issue

[bluetrim]

I am having a local shop install a Ridetech kit I bought from MCB. I purchased the truck recently that has already been clipped but I wanted to be able to have the ride height adjustable. The rear was flipped and a c notch installed buy hardly no travel, very rough ride, and bottomed out so I sprung for the full kit that included the 4 link set up.
The issue now is that the truck may be even lower than it was previously before the shockwaves. I went over to have a look and snapped some shots of the graft that the previous owner did. The shop has called Ridetech to see what our options are but after looking at several camaro clip installs on here, mine do not look anything like those. Can you guys look at what I bought here and give me your opinion? My objective was to have a good ride that would corner well and still be able to get over speed bumps when I needed to. I will add a picture of the stance when I bought the truck last month. It looks to me that the subframe job should have had the bottom of the clip level with the bottom of the frame.

Is a longer shockwave going to fix this problem?
Do I even have a problem?
Am I screwed?

I am new at this so take it easy on me.

[mr48chev]

I would say your assumption is correct. The guy that did that subframe swap set it up to be super low from the get go.

As a comparison here is the frame a buddy of mine did for a guy showing the height difference and this one will be low.
What was the bottom of the Camaro rail runs even with the bottom of the truck rail


There are four photos of that setup here. He quit counting when he did about 25 of them that way.
http://s173.photobucket.com/user/mr4...e?sort=4&page=

[Speedbumpauto]

Mine is the same as the frame above. You can see the ht. using coil overs. About 5" from fender to ground.

[Speedbumpauto]

Sorry, fingers too fast.

[59chev]

Your subframe is welded in so that the rideheight will be really low. I set mine so the truck frame was on top of the camaro frame.

You might be better off with airbags on the front instead of shockwaves. Shockwaves only have about 4" of travel. An airbag will have alot more, and the starting height can be adjusted by the size of cup that is placed as a spacer on top of the airbag.

Sweet looking truck though, similar in style for what I am shooting for. Do you have a pic like the first one that isn't cut off and shows the whole truck?

[Black93GT]

Not to mention if you're using the ridetech spindles that drops you another 1.5".

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by 59chev

You might be better off with airbags on the front instead of shockwaves. Shockwaves only have about 4" of travel.

I agree, and to expand on what 59chev is saying:

shockwaves have about 4" of travel LIMIT TO LIMIT. some people hear 4" and think, "I can deal with lifting four inches" and what they dont realize is that it is completely empty (no more travel down) to completely full (no more travel up). you will want to run it in the MIDDLE of that travel, 2" of lift, to have some up and down travel while driving. if you drive them bottomed out they will break, and if you run them topped out they will break.

shockwaves make sense for a lowered ride that already sits a couple inches off the ground and the extra 2" plus the inherent nice ride of the air spring make for a smooth, taut, ride. they dont make sense for trucks that are intended to lay flat on the ground. that may not have been your intention, I am not putting words in your mouth haha. some people like the all-in-one shockwave approach not realizing it is so limited on lift.

if what you want is some good travel, get the bag mount lower arm from ART (or plate the arm you have) trim the spring pocket a little for clearance and install a nice slam specialties RE7 bag with an upper cup. you size the upper cup length to make the bag squish 100% when at your desired bottom height or you will be wasting lift. install a nice gas charged shock with about 8.5" of travel behind the control arm, and you will have about 9" of lift (the bag will lift about 7 and the shock will only extend 8.5" but the geomtery of the a arm will give that extra). it will also ride like a gas charged pillow.

if you have the ART air bar setup with sleeve bags, you have one of the best riding rear suspensions available. its a really nice riding system.

[bluetrim]

Originally Posted by 59chev

Your subframe is welded in so that the rideheight will be really low. I set mine so the truck frame was on top of the camaro frame.

You might be better off with airbags on the front instead of shockwaves. Shockwaves only have about 4" of travel. An airbag will have alot more, and the starting height can be adjusted by the size of cup that is placed as a spacer on top of the airbag.

Sweet looking truck though, similar in style for what I am shooting for. Do you have a pic like the first one that isn't cut off and shows the whole truck?

images upload

[bluetrim]

Originally Posted by Black93GT

Not to mention if you're using the ridetech spindles that drops you another 1.5".

Using stock spindles

[59chev]

Thanks for posting the pic!!

How was the ride in the front before you took it in for the shockwaves? I love how the stance looks. Did you find it too low for driving around? I am aiming for a similar stance at ride height.

Thanks

[mr48chev]

I've got a friend who has driven around the local with a TF with the same stance yours had for the past 30+ years. No idea of how it rides but it sure looks great running down the street.

I'm not a bag fan by any means but Joedoh usually has the right answers when it comes to bags on a truck. It's back up an kick and go again but the other option would be to pull the truck apart, cut the subframe loose and set it or a replacement back on to where the "static" ride height of the truck was that 2 and something inches higher. Changing to bags with external C-10 style shocks seems to be a lot simpler.

[dsraven]

a lot of 4x4 guys would say just block the body mounts up. that works on trucks with firewall mounted pedals i guess. still, it's a thought.

[1-ton of fun]

Originally Posted by Speedbumpauto

Sorry, fingers too fast.

that nosed hood looks killer

[Speedbumpauto]

Thanks! I offended a few people when I did it but I like it too. Complements the chop, IMO.

[bluetrim]

Originally Posted by dsraven

a lot of 4x4 guys would say just block the body mounts up. that works on trucks with firewall mounted pedals i guess. still, it's a thought.

We thought they may be our only option. Anyone here ever done it?
Pros/Cons of going that route?

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by bluetrim

We thought they may be our only option. Anyone here ever done it?
Pros/Cons of going that route?

I dont know about the pros, in my view it doesnt give you any more ground clearance, the frame is the same distance off the ground that it was before.

as for cons, the motor and trans stay attached to the frame and the body moves up. if you have a column shifter and throttle linkage you will need to plan for modifying them. if you dont have u-joints in the steering you will need them. if you have a clutch fan you have to watch the hoses, the rad moves up but the motor "down". also, the bumpers dont attach to the body but to the frame, so you will have to move them up as well with some custom brackets. lots to think of, if you have cable shifter and cable throttle and an e fan and u joints its really just the bumpers.

bags and cups and new shocks will cost about 1/2 what the shockwaves did, but if you cant return them I see your dilemma.

[59chev]

Originally Posted by bluetrim

We thought they may be our only option. Anyone here ever done it?
Pros/Cons of going that route?

The cab is channelled over the frame from the factory, raising everything up could leave the frame showing under the rockers and look goofy. When you open the hood the engine will be way down in the engine bay. If you have a under the floor master cylinder, you will need to deal with that as the pedal will be in the wrong spot and you would need to move it up or cut a new hole in the cab.

The way I see it, you have two choices to do this properly

- Sell or return the shockwaves (even at a slight loss) and do it properly with airbags. Bags are usually a little cheaper than Shockwaves so it might be a wash. Easiest option I think

- Cut off the subframe and weld it back on further down relative to the truck frame, effectively moving your stance up. This wall also require redoing the core support, bumper mounts and remounting the engine/transmission. Honestly I think option 1 is the way to go.

[bluetrim]

Originally Posted by 59chev

The cab is channelled over the frame from the factory, raising everything up could leave the frame showing under the rockers and look goofy. When you open the hood the engine will be way down in the engine bay. If you have a under the floor master cylinder, you will need to deal with that as the pedal will be in the wrong spot and you would need to move it up or cut a new hole in the cab.

The way I see it, you have two choices to do this properly

- Sell or return the shockwaves (even at a slight loss) and do it properly with airbags. Bags are usually a little cheaper than Shockwaves so it might be a wash. Easiest option I think

- Cut off the subframe and weld it back on further down relative to the truck frame, effectively moving your stance up. This wall also require redoing the core support, bumper mounts and remounting the engine/transmission. Honestly I think option 1 is the way to go.

Thank You!
Anybody have a link to the best bag set up for the front?
Could I just use these instead?
http://www.ridetech.com/store/air-sp...onvoluted.html

Of course I would have to buy different lower arms as well.

[joedoh]

I think ride tech is the only company that makes a bolt in air bag setup for the year of camaro you have. you are familiar with their pricing already

that same bag you show is available almost everywhere else for 40-50 dollars less. it has a 1/4" port which isnt necessarily a bad thing on its own except trying to find a fitting if your airline is larger than 1/4".

you dont need a bolt in kit and, truthfully, it would probably need modified anyway. here is why. the size of the upper cup, plus the size of the squished airbag, plus the height of the lower plate, will set the "bottom" of the travel where you cant get any lower. this is a known value on a camaro, which are made to bottom out at the same point on hundreds of thousands of cars. this is NOT a known value on your truck, the clip is welded in at a certain point that makes the bottom, not the bottom. am I making sense so far?

air bags give a good ride IF you are riding with the pressure/height in a comfortable spring rate and a height high enough to clear most obstacles. in order for this to work with a truck with adjustable suspension you MUST set the airbag up to be at the bottom of travel with the air bag completely squished. what will likely happen with a bolt in kit designed for a camaro is that the frame will bottom out before the bag squishes all the way. you will lose total lift and worse than that, it will take a lot of pressure to lift because there is extra volume in the bag before the air can start lifting the truck. with the bolt in kit, your pressures will probably be higher and the ride stiffer and total lift less.

you dont have to buy new lowers if you dont want to. you can plate the lowers to hold the bag, and drilling the plate at the point of the lower shockwave mount to center the bag. then figure out your bottom height by lifting the wheel (no springs installed) with a jack till its at your ideal lowered height. measure up from the plate to the top of the spring pocket, subtract the height of a squished bag, and you know how tall to make the cup. get some pipe with the same ID as the spring and make it that height. plate the bottom of the cup (where the top of the bag will sit) after cutting holes for the mount and fitting. you dont need to "mount" the upper cup, it will stay in place in the pocket with the pressure of the truck pushing down.

for shocks, lots of companies make shock mount kits. find a nice gas charged shock with a good amount of travel (the auto parts stores have a great big book showing the extended and collapsed mounting lengths) install the shocks leaving just a bit of compression left at your bottom measurement.

if you dont want to make cups, you can sometimes order custom tall cups you trim to length. if you dont want to plate your shockwave arms, ART makes a bag type lower arm that is the same.

I recommend Slam Specialties bags, they are reinforced and dont balloon under pressure. you can get them just about anywhere, I like gauge magazine store for most parts like fittings and line and bags. http://store.gaugemagazine.com but there are hundreds of places. the SS and RE bags are the same except the SS has a composite top and bottom plate and the RE is aluminum.

[bluetrim]

Thank You JoeDoh

[joedoh]

just looking around on gauge store I found these

http://store.gaugemagazine.com/singl...-circle-plate/

which would be great if you bought your own pipe although I also saw this

http://store.gaugemagazine.com/build...5-1-2-od-tube/

which would be doable if 5.5 OD pipe fit your pocket, this would also let you use a short length of pipe and the bottom circle plates instead of plating across your lower arm

and of course a weld in shock mount kit that relocates the shock off the back of the arm
http://store.gaugemagazine.com/front-shock-relocating-kit/


and they even have one with shocks

http://store.gaugemagazine.com/unive...elocation-kit/

they sell bags too, here is the one you asked about only with a 3/8 port (priced as a PAIR)

http://store.gaugemagazine.com/2-pac...-bag-3-8-port/

but I would recommend RE7

http://store.gaugemagazine.com/re-7-...ngle-1-2-port/

or SS7

http://store.gaugemagazine.com/ss-7-...ngle-1-2-port/

be sure you have the room for the 7s, but I have used them on a couple s10 and I dont know why a camaro would have a smaller spring pocket.





I have an affinity for gauge store having used them for years but these same parts are available from lots of sellers. I have used thor bros, newmatics, ride tech, lAim/chassis tech, Air Lift,. devious customs, and a ton more even stage 1 customs in encintas (they closed about 25 years ago haha) when I bagged my first truck in 1995.

[Sandwillys]

Here's mine,I slipped my clip into the truck frame and boxed it up.using shockwaves, came out good, havnt drove it yet.

[Sandwillys]

Here's mine,I slipped my clip into the truck frame and boxed it up.using shockwaves, came out good, havnt drove it yet.