Need Help - Truck at alignment shop

[88Ironduke]

Stupid question here.. I was asked and said heck no but now I'm not so sure....

72' half ton 2wd is the subject vehicle and the alignment shop is having a really hard time getting the caster in check... both sides are 9.2/9.3 respectively and will not come in. Truck has never been in an accident and is pretty darn straight.

The question was asked did get the upper control arms reversed on reassembly. I thought no, they won't fit up right but now I'm not so sure.... Is it possible to get them reversed and bolt up normally? Could this be my problem?

Paul

[weq92f]

Just looking at the parts ( upper arms ), if you did get them on opposite sides, it probably would wreck your caster.

Looking level at the ball joint on the upper arm from the side, you see that it is closer to the front cap of the arm that the left.


C----------------------C --- the caps of the arms, shaft in between
\--------------------/
\------------------/



----------------B --- location of ball joint in arm, closer to front cap ( right hand on the passenger side )


-klb

[randy500]

Post a picture of the front end

[kwmech]

Did you do anything with the lower control arms?

Also, the upper A arm is like an offset triangle. If you look at the arm one face of it is a 90 degree to the mounting shaft, and the other is angled more. The 90 degree or flat part faces towards the front of the truck.

[88Ironduke]

Well I've won the award for being stupid. Upper control arms are indeed backwards. Grrrr, swap'em and get the alignment finished. was praised for well running 250. still feeling mighty foolish...

Paul

[demian5]

Originally Posted by 88Ironduke

The question was asked did get the upper control arms reversed on reassembly.

If its a good alignment shop, they would tell you if they were in backwards.

[kwmech]

Originally Posted by demian5

If its a good alignment shop, they would tell you if they were in backwards.

A good portion of the alignment "guys" are working on stuff about 2-3 decades older than they are.

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by kwmech

A good portion of the alignment "guys" are working on stuff about 2-3 decades older than they are.

While I can sympathize with the OP for owning up to his mistake, I'll tell you that this statement is totally true. I took my son's '70 Dart up to a shop to have it aligned after we rebuilt the front end. Got a "toe-and-go". The camber was so bad you wouldn't believe it. When I busted their chops, they said "Our machine doesn't fit this car". Really?!? Then tell me that and don't charge me, DUH. I did get my money back, but jeez, I can do better in my driveway with a tape measure, a couple of two by fours and a spirit level.

[El Dorado Jim]

Originally Posted by 88Ironduke

Well I've won the award for being stupid. Upper control arms are indeed backwards. Grrrr, swap'em and get the alignment finished. was praised for well running 250. still feeling mighty foolish...

Paul

don't beat yourself up, we have all made mistakes.....you learn from them

[kwmech]

Owning a shop, I have learned to ask the right questions. If something has gone awry, my usual first question is (jokingly) OK what did you do? But seriously, a lot of things can be diagnosed this way. What was the last thing you did to your car? On the newer cars with electrical related problems can (most of the time) be traced back to a stereo or alarm that was just installed by a "professional".

[randy500]

Originally Posted by kwmech

Owning a shop, I have learned to ask the right questions. If something has gone awry, my usual first question is (jokingly) OK what did you do? But seriously, a lot of things can be diagnosed this way. What was the last thing you did to your car? On the newer cars with electrical related problems can (most of the time) be traced back to a stereo or alarm that was just installed by a "professional".

I posted on a recent thread where a forum member installed the center link backwards and got flamed...shop owners are not expected to see things installed wrong, etc.

This is the what to do if something is just not right, electrical, suspension, whatever, ask questions, if the customer is doing his own work and its all bolted together then he possibly installed something the wrong way. Its called troubleshooting which should begin with investigation of recent changes.

[demian5]

Originally Posted by 88Ironduke

Well I've won the award for being stupid. Upper control arms are indeed backwards. Grrrr, swap'em and get the alignment finished. was praised for well running 250. still feeling mighty foolish...

Paul

I bet you can turn that thing in a parking lot going 2 mph with a pinky though!

[davepl]

Don't feel bad, I put my first one on the wrong side (and it was a 50/50 chance because I didn't know that was possible either). I caught it before fully assembling the truck, but you're not the first to get control arms backwards or the centerlink reversed.

Your average alignment shop could likely spot a backwards control arm on a Camry or Accord maybe but most of the guys in there will not have worked on a 67-72 truck very often, if ever!

[Mr Handy]

I had my truck "aligned" at a shop after doing a disk brake conversion. They kept it for two days, gave it back to me and it damn near ate the tires off the front in 400 miles, bought one of those T bubble level alignment tools and did the alignment myself... Now I can do 70 down the interstate with no hands on the wheel for miles at a time. Ooh and the tires stopped eating themselves. Spent more to have the shop screw up the alignment then I did on the tool to do it myself.

[twouvakind]

Sorry you missed this post, would have been well worth your trip. They just don't make shops like this anymore.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=642058

Originally Posted by 88Ironduke

Stupid question here.. I was asked and said heck no but now I'm not so sure....

72' half ton 2wd is the subject vehicle and the alignment shop is having a really hard time getting the caster in check... both sides are 9.2/9.3 respectively and will not come in. Truck has never been in an accident and is pretty darn straight.

The question was asked did get the upper control arms reversed on reassembly. I thought no, they won't fit up right but now I'm not so sure.... Is it possible to get them reversed and bolt up normally? Could this be my problem?

Paul

[88Ironduke]

Thanks guys. The alignment shop did a good job nailing the alignment. You indeed can turn it in to a parking spot with grace and style.... On a good note it did explain why my front brake hoses were short. Turns out factory hoses fit correctly if the upper control arms are pointed in the right direction..

Paul

[kwmech]

Where did there final adjustments come out?

[Overdriven]

I'm sure I'll have my turn at "uhhh, wait a minute, is this right?" too! Lol

But it is said how bad some of these shops can be with alignment. My boss had me take the work truck to Mavis and they replaced a tie rod and did an alignment. I asked for a printout, they said they don't give one unless asked beforehand. The look on my face said it all and the guy said he'll have them throw it back on right now to get me a printout. They got the truck on the rack lickety split and I went over to the bay to observe and have a smoke. Told the tech I was on company time and not to rush before he even put the first sensor on a wheel. He did his sweeps, then he spent the next 20min making adjustments so the printout would reflect a decent alignment instead of his half assed attempt the first time.

Always tell them you want a printout of the final alignment and factory specs if they're a computer alignment. Those computerized machines give a green "window" of supposedly "acceptable" specs that let them be plus or minus a few degrees off on each wheel. Lots of techs will just get it in those windows and quit unless they have to prove the worthiness of their work to the customer with a printout. Seen it happen firsthand everywhere from Jaguar dealers, chain shops to independents. It also prevents the "toe and go" quickly alignments, unless they falsify the printout or something but most will have at least the year, make and model on the printout to prevent falsifying them.

[Port&PolishMan]

Originally Posted by Overdriven

I'm sure I'll have my turn at "uhhh, wait a minute, is this right?" too! Lol

But it is said how bad some of these shops can be with alignment. My boss had me take the work truck to Mavis and they replaced a tie rod and did an alignment. I asked for a printout, they said they don't give one unless asked beforehand. The look on my face said it all and the guy said he'll have them throw it back on right now to get me a printout. They got the truck on the rack lickety split and I went over to the bay to observe and have a smoke. Told the tech I was on company time and not to rush before he even put the first sensor on a wheel. He did his sweeps, then he spent the next 20min making adjustments so the printout would reflect a decent alignment instead of his half assed attempt the first time.

Always tell them you want a printout of the final alignment and factory specs if they're a computer alignment. Those computerized machines give a green "window" of supposedly "acceptable" specs that let them be plus or minus a few degrees off on each wheel. Lots of techs will just get it in those windows and quit unless they have to prove the worthiness of their work to the customer with a printout. Seen it happen firsthand everywhere from Jaguar dealers, chain shops to independents. It also prevents the "toe and go" quickly alignments, unless they falsify the printout or something but most will have at least the year, make and model on the printout to prevent falsifying them.

110% Always - get the Print Out - If they give , ya the BS about the Printer is Broke - Call Me when It's Working !
Then there are the BS - OE Spec's which aren't even Close to what's Actually Needed _ Run 75-80 down the Express Way ..

Or You need to Tune it for Skinny Tires and Back Roads - with Crowns . .
If ya Know what I Mean . .

[tdangle]

Fortunately I have an old school shop by me in SoCal. Thats my truck in the old school alignment bay.

[demian5]

Originally Posted by tdangle

Fortunately I have an old school shop by me in SoCal. Thats my truck in the old school alignment bay.

Where is this place?

[SonomaComa]

I work at a tire and alignment shop here in California. You HAVE to give the customer a printout of the alignment to prove the vehicle required adjustments. If we can't produce a printout we cannot charge for the alignment.
A readout with close to 0 degrees Camber and a 0.75 to 1.00 degree Caster split leading to the left, and toed in about 0.10 on both sides is usually pretty good. A good alignment tech can also make necessary adjustments by looking at the tire wear if the tires have been on the front for a while and no parts have just been replaced.

[jremig]

I rebuilt the whole suspension on a 72 Monte Carlo, I know not a truck but did the whole job in my driveway on a military installation. Took it to the auto hobby shop for alignment and guy said it was real. He then set everything at 0 and this was a hobby shop.
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