55.2-59 Pulling an engine/tranny out of a van advice...I know someone has done it??

[Missyblue]

Hey there I cant find my post but I know a few guys commented a couple years back with advice so trying to see if anyone has any.....

Pulling 350 engine/ 4l80e tranny and hopefully computer out of a 92 van this weekend. Anything to watch for or other parts to consider pulling?

Thanks!

[1project2many]

Having spent years in an area with a number of vans, then going to work for a fleet with many vans, my advice is run. Run fast. Run far. Just run.

But seriously... This job will be easier if you have a way to lift the body off the subframe. Barring that, it will be much easier if you can raise the van or modify the engine hoist so the lift arm is able to be positioned level with the engine. We modified our engine hoist so the extension in the lift arm doesn't stick out as far. This allows us to get the hoist farther under the engine and chassis. It's also easier if you remove the engine mount bolts that hold the lower mounts to the frame. I've always found it easier to remove the engine separately from the transmission but one of the guys I work with feels exactly the opposite. I find the weight of the transmission tends to cause everything to hang up over and over as the engine comes out through the front.

The computer is under the seat and the wiring harness circles from the driver's side of the firewall down along the subframe then up into the vehicle. Van harnesses are very long which is nice for hotrod projects. I would remove the wiring before the engine to reduce clutter and to prevent wires from getting pinched. You might want to get the under dash harness in order to have extra wires and connectors but much of what passes through the firewall is for gauges, lighting, horn, hvac, and power rather than for the EFI system.

I also like to remove the intake manifold because it allows the lift arm of the engine hoist to be positioned lower before lifting. Run a chain across the engine with only a small amount of slack then connect to the hoist using a short chain. Two or three links usually works well.

In addition to the intake I like to remove accessories from the front and top of the engine. I like having plenty of room and making the engine easier to lift always seems to help. Watch for wires and grounds attached to the back of the engine as well as brackets for fuel lines. GM loves to hide them.

That should be enough to get you thinking...

[mr48chev]

I've done it on a carbureted van using an engine plate and flipping the bar on the cherry picker over and rigging a short coupled hookup so the end of the cherry picker was as close to the engine plate as I could get it. I can't find it at the moment but I made my own engine plate to use for the task. It has a heavy ring welded to it cross wise from the standard flat bar that sets on top of most engine plates running front to back. A guy Might turn a Engine plate sideways from the norm and catch it with just a Chain hook on the Cherry picker bar to get close.

I was swapping engines in the van so I couldn't do any cutting for clearance but if it is a van you own and you are sending it to the scrap yard when you are done all bets are off.

If you have the stuff to drop the trans out safely first, it may be far less of a fight if you pull the trans out the bottom and then pull the engine. That may depend a lot on where you are taking it out. We actually pulled the engine out of the donor van though the passenger door with a wrecker boom when I bought the engine.

[PDW HOTRODS]

If your parting out the van to get the engine, get a sawzall and cut everything in the way. I did one years ago and I cut out the door post on passenger side between the sliding door and passenger, door. cut some floor, and took engine and trans out the side.

[mr48chev]

That is the way I would do another one if I was scrapping the van. It's a challenge to get the engine out the front and that would probably save you several hours of fussing with it.

It still comes down to where you are working on it, If you own the van or if you are out in a wrecking yard (they get their nose out of joint when you cut up something that they might be able to sell.) or even how much room you have in your garage or what surface you are working on. Hard to roll a cherry picker on gravel if you are working in the driveway but not hard to push a van back away from the engine on the hoist.

How ever you do it do it the simple and safe way for you.

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

Having spent years in an area with a number of vans, then going to work for a fleet with many vans, my advice is run. Run fast. Run far. Just run.
..

Haha I seriously opened the hood and said no way but thankfully have a mechanic friend and my dad that says we can do it!! Thanks for the tips they are greatly appreciated. We will be using a cherry picker but the van is mine and can be scrapped so might be cutting things that drive us crazy I guess 😆

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by PDW HOTRODS

If your parting out the van to get the engine, get a sawzall and cut everything in the way. I did one years ago and I cut out the door post on passenger side between the sliding door and passenger, door. cut some floor, and took engine and trans out the side.

this is the correct answer! I pulled a 4.3 from a rear ended s10 blazer 4x4, notoriously one of the most difficult because of packaging. i cut the windshield pillars and the floor side to side in the middle of the door jambs, and just leaned the firewall back.

if you are scrapping the body, get the engine harness out and roll the body off.

edit: pics for reference!

[mr48chev]

On and S-10 4x4 you have to unbolt the left side of the body and loosen the right side (mount bolts) and raise the body and block it up to get the trans and transfer out or back far enough to change a flex plate.

That gives another thought though, you may be able to unbolt the body bolts leaving the back two in but loose, then jack the body off the frame several inches and block it up and pull the engine out the front a lot easier. That might not be difficult if you have an impact wrench. That is if you have a serious need to pull the engine out the front rather than the side, such as tight working quarters .

We should have given you enough ideas that one will work in your situation.

[jayoldschool]

Up and out the side door. Or, if being scrapped, cut away everything in front of the engine and out the front. Hood off, rad out, cut core support.

[dsraven]

if keeping the van intact, remove front bumper, grille etc etc, remove trans, remove accy from front of engine, remove intake manifold and distributor so you have less height, then chain the engine fore to aft as short as possible, like from pass rear to drivers front, hook the cherry picker as tight as possible then lift and pull out the front. been there, done that. I once did an astro van 4.3l and pulled it out through the bottom with brute strength and a trans jack but removed heads first. a nightmare to get back in that way but kept the a/c intact.
if scrapping the van, and don't care about cutting things up, just cut away what you need to get it out. still suggest to remove trans and flexplate first and hook the picker as short as possible. take it out the front or the side. front just has better access for the picker. you could also lift the body off at the front high enough to get the engine out.

[mr48chev]

Now you have to take and post photos of how you actually do it. Just so we will know.;

[Missyblue]

So we are a little bruised and covered in grease, oil antifreeze and gosh knows what else haha but its out!!! Dirty thing has had a power steering leak for who knows how long I guess and was quite the greaseball.
My mechanic friend wanted to go out the front. Had to remove the accessories for more wiggle room and cut a few things with the torch haha but we did it out the front with engine and tranny still mated. There was a metal section that ran behind the bumper connecting the 2 fenders and didnt seem easily removable so we just cut it out. Then had to drop the sway bar as well to clear the oil pan. Now have alot of cleaning and reassembling to do but excited for progress!!! I think after today he might agree with 1project2many and say run run as fast as you can away from a van haha
Thanks so much for the ideas and insight its greatly appreciated

[hogfarm]

I have a tractor....easy peasy

[joedoh]

outstanding!

[mick53]

The fire ax is almost always a good choice.

[dsraven]

if you're gonna be building a new driveshaft anyway, it is a great idea to keep the entire driveshaft system from the donor for parts, end yokes etc, and then remove the front yoke from the donor shaft and slip it into the trans to keep the dirt out. wire or tape it in there. plug the trans vent as well as cap the trans cooler lines or connect them together with some hose before washing everything. castrol superclean works great for an engine cleaner but don't leave it on the aluminum or rubber parts too long. if using the engine as is, with no overhaul, I suggest to do the valve seals, front main seal, rear main seal and valve cover gaskets while it is out. easier than doing it later. if the trans is off maybe consider doing the torque converter seal(s) too. that's all up to you though.

[dsraven]

recip saw also works great for those type jobs. use a hand pump spray bottle with some soapy water to spray the blade so as to keep the blade from plugging up or overheating.

[mick53]

I had a friend that cut his entire van into "under 2' steel" with a sawzall to get more money for it. It took him a week and he had more in blades than he got. He has never lived it down.

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by dsraven

if you're gonna be building a new driveshaft anyway, it is a great idea to keep the entire driveshaft system from the donor for parts, end yokes etc, and then remove the front yoke from the donor shaft and slip it into the trans to keep the dirt out. wire or tape it in there. plug the trans vent as well as cap the trans cooler lines or connect them together with some hose before washing everything. castrol superclean works great for an engine cleaner but don't leave it on the aluminum or rubber parts too long. if using the engine as is, with no overhaul, I suggest to do the valve seals, front main seal, rear main seal and valve cover gaskets while it is out. easier than doing it later. if the trans is off maybe consider doing the torque converter seal(s) too. that's all up to you though.

Thank you for the tips. Supposedly the engine is a crate with only 30k but super messy from leak so hard to tell so I'll definitly check out that Castrol super clean you suggested. We talked about the valve cover seals and spark plugs but not the others you suggested so I'll ask my dad what we can do. He knows a bit I'm learning everything new haha. The transmission is still connected so not sure about disconnecting but will ponder......
And I did bag the end of the transmission but I'll see if I can remove the yoke like you suggested. I did plan to keep the driveshaft and see if it could be shortened. It's in good shape. We also cut the exhaust just befo re the cat so I can maybe use that section to get started. He said aftermarket stuff leaks and the original is always best fit haha
He also suggested trying to keep my radiator and fan shroud as it's in really good shape but I know it's too long for my core.support so not sure if I can fab something or better of just getting something else?

[mr48chev]

Originally Posted by mick53

I had a friend that cut his entire van into "under 2' steel" with a sawzall to get more money for it. It took him a week and he had more in blades than he got. He has never lived it down.

Back a few years ago when scrap metal was seriously high I was hauling a load one day and heard another guy ask a third guy why he hadn't cut his load into smaller pieces to get more money and his answer was exactly that, it cost more to cut it up than the difference in price.

Back in the early 70's I was at a machine shop that I took my parts to a lot (they were doing the heads for my T bucket then) and there was this huge red bearded dude cutting a Corvair up with an axe out back. I had to ask why he used an axe rather than a torch or other cutting device and his answer was "torches cost money to run" After that I cut 4 or 5 cars that I scrapped out with an axe and if you know what you are doing it goes pretty fast. That was frame and all on a Chevelle.
Side story, I met my best friend one day when I was cutting a car up with an axe and he walked over to see what the noise was all about. He told that story for years especially when someone said they didn't have a way to cut a hulk up.

Back to Missyblue's ponder, I have several old yokes that I saved over the years to stick in the back of transmisisons I pulled including one I cut down and put a pull ring on. A couple of Them aren't good for anything except being a plug for a transmission.

If you take it out the front you will have to remove the exhaust pipes and most likely remove the starter.

[1project2many]

Is it too late to grab a drink and join the celebration? lol

The easiest way I've ever done that style vans without hacking and cutting was to raise the body off the subframe. Ford Taurus is the same way. In '96 ('97 for the cutaway models) GM went back to full frames so no luck with the subframe trick. But those vans came with 6.5 diesels or 454 so there's some extra room to work. In 2003 for cutaways GM actually sets the engine farther back in the van. Combined with the LS family engine everything changes. It's much more work than before.

Driveshafts on the van typically have smaller ends and fat centers. It's an accounting trick to save $$. When you take it to the driveshaft shop you might get a lecture on how difficult it is to shorten that shaft more than a couple of inches. They're right. Be prepared to pay for a complete tube to replace the original shaft.

Intake gaskets on that engine are likely to use steel "inserts" in the rear ports to keep coolant from bypassing the heads. If you remove the intake manifold be sure to research this. Allowing too much coolant to pass through the intake can cause overheating that isn't reported to the driver until its too late.

Parts that are van specific include cruise and throttle cables, maybe exhaust manifolds, harmonic balancer and timing cover. The van is set up with the timing notches viewable through the gap behind the water pump. If you have access to view the marks from the side like a regular SBC application I'd recommend changing these parts. Then again, if it's a generic crate engine it may already have "not van specific" parts.

If you know someone that can do computer tuning that engine really, really benefits from a better cam. If you grab a takeout 5.7 Vortec roller cam and lifters from Ebay or from a local guy it will make that TBI engine behave very differently without requiring major internal modifications.

Good luck!

"I used to ride the short bus. Now I fix it."

[dsraven]

The 92 vortex should have a one piece rear main seal that is held in by a bolt on bracket affair. This bracket also is the sealing surface for the oil pan gasket. If yours is a newer engine and isn't leaking then maybe leave well enough alone.
If unsure about whether the trans torque converter seal was done at the same time as the newer engine then you could pull the trans off and check that seal. Once the torque converter is pulled off the torque seal is easy to change. You can push a new seal in with a length of ABS plumbing pipe or some clean exhaust pipe. There will likely be some teflon style seals on the input shaft too. Those can be a little tricky to change and not tear or distort when you slip the converter back on so you decide on whether you change the converter seal or not. I also suggest to pull the trans pan and change the filter and gasket while it's out of the vehicle. You get to see what's in the pan that way. Lots of times I will install a drain plug in the pan while it's off just because. The dipstick and tube can be easily pulled out and a plug installed in the rubber grommet in the trans. Sometimes a wooden broom handle is the right size. It just makes it easier to work with if the tube is out of the way. Same goes for the trans cooler lines. They are just flare fittings probably so plugs are easily sourced to cap the trans fittings. Then the cooler lines dont get bent outta shape while working on other things and moving stuff. Plus the lines can be properly flushed/cleaned out and capped until you need then. I have used those foam style earplugs to blow through the lines using compressed air after flushing the lines out. Then cap lines with vacuum plugs on both ends till ready to install

To pull the trans off, remove starter and converter splash shield etc, then undo the converter to flexplate(flywheel) bolts and the push the converter back into the trans. Then undo the bell housing bolts to split the trans and engine. I usually use a chunk of 2x4 against the converter and use some wire through the bell housing bolts to keep the converter from slipping out or falling out. The converter is notched and fits into the oil pump in the trans so if it slips out on you be sure to carefully install it so as not to tear those teflon input shaft seals, and also turn the converter as it goes in to ensure the converter notches have fit into the pump drive correctly and the converter is fully seated. Failure to do that will mean the engine and trans wont quite come together all the way when assembling. This has resulted in a lot of broken bellhousings or transmission front pumps due to guys using the bellhousing bolts to pull the 2 parts together when this happens. Screw the bolts or nuts back on the converter after disassembling so they dont get lost and to protect the threads. On assembly Check the flex plate for cracks around the bolt holes and if you take the flex plate off be sure to install the correct way around. Pics before taking stuff apart is a good idea. Using a paint marker to mark parts can also help you remember orientation.
If you are unsure of the status/quality of the engine rebuild now would be a good time to check a few things. Pulling the pan off and plastigaging a couple of con rod bearings would be a good indicator. Plus it gives you a look inside. Or, clean it all up and install it as is. It isn't that tough to pull an engine out of one of these old trucks especially if you take the front body clip off.
Good idea to keep a bunch of parts off the donor, like manifolds and driveshaft etc. I usually try to keep the whole donor until the project vehicle is running if I have room. Better than making trips to the store or wrecker for parts you just sent for scrap.
These trucks came with small block Chevy engines but the engine mounts were bolted on the front instead of the sides and the trans hung off the bellhousing instead of having a trans crossmember. The bellhousing had it's own mounts on a crossmember behind the engine which also served purpose of keeping the frame from flexing in the area of the front cab mounts. If that crossmember is removed to incorporate the newer style of driveline just keep an eye on the cab mounts and door/fender/hood gaps and fitment as the truck gets used after the engine transplant. Issues with the body fitment can mean the frame is flexing and needs some extra support in that area where the old crossmember was.
Sorry for the rant, I got on a roll, haha.
Post up some pics as you work through it.

[Missyblue]

Originally Posted by dsraven

Sorry for the rant, I got on a roll, haha.
Post up some pics as you work through it.

Haha no sorry at all! This is exactly what I need to help me. When I bought this truck I could maybe check my oil and change a battery haha and now I have takenoff a front end and learned to weld and install brake parts etc.
I hadn't planned to do this much but with my dad and now I have our mechanic helper and local hot rod builder telling me just do it im learning and doing and I guess am gonna be all over this thing haha.
So the engine is supposedly only 30k but that's over lots of years they didnt use it much. I do know I overheated it good at least once.....lll spare you the long story 😳. But before pulling it it drove and sounded good. So trying to decide what is good to do and also what we can handle. Dad has done a full rebuild years ago so he knows a few things to help me but I appreciate all the input to help me research and understand things better.
As far as transmission and frame flex I thought I would be installing a new crossmemeber? Mechanic said I could look at the van one and see if I can use it or parts of it maybe?
Oh and he said my radiator is in really good shape. Only a 2 cell but worked well with the 3/4 ton van so inky problem I guess is I think its longer than my original radiator support so would you fab something or just get another radiator haha

And yes definitly keeping the van till shes running. I have read a few posts about the oops wish I hadn't 😆

Thanks again!!

[_Ogre]

glad you got it out!
lots of destruction in this thread
like those pics from joedoh of the firewall leaning back

[mr48chev]

Cool beans, it's out. I'd agree, save that driveshaft back even though you don't figure to use it right now.