School me on modern air-ride suspension

[Asshat]

I really don't know anything about air-ride suspension, so looking for info and suggestions. My truck has stock springs and I do not plan on slamming it to the ground or anything crazy like that. It just has a bit of a rough ride and I was wondering if adding air ride would smooth it out. I'm planning on getting some taller, narrower tires, 215/85-16.
I'm sure there are a few pros and cons... maybe you guys and gals can offer some advice?

Questions:
Can you have a combination of springs and air bags?

Or, do you just remove all the coil springs and install air bags?

If your compressor fails, are SOL?

You're stuck until you can fix the compressor and get air in the bags?

Could you even get it onto a flatbed?

[cwcarpenter98]

I know nothing of air ride, but I think you can swap the 3/4 ton springs for 1/2 ton springs

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by cwcarpenter98

I know nothing of air ride, but I think you can swap the 3/4 ton springs for 1/2 ton springs

I put 1/2 ton springs in the back, still really rough.

[62bagger]

What type of shock are you using? you might see if there is a softer shock that will give you a better ride.

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by 62bagger

What type of shock are you using? you might see if there is a softer shock that will give you a better ride.

Just an econo shock from RockAuto.

[slimjim66]

basic air ride kits are pretty easy and reliable as long as you don't have anything rubbing the bags themselves. if the pump goes you don't lose the air, i usually run a Schrader valve out of a tank bung incase the compressor pump fails, that way you can find any tire fill station or compressor and fill it back up as needed. There's tons of air ride install threads on here, some very basic and some high quality kits.

I've run a kit without a compressor but i had 2, 5 gallon tanks and filled it whenever the tanks were getting low, you just cant drop the truck every time you park. i have done 2 of my own installs and they are both still working fine.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Asshat

I really don't know anything about air-ride suspension, so looking for info and suggestions. My truck has stock springs and I do not plan on slamming it to the ground or anything crazy like that. It just has a bit of a rough ride and I was wondering if adding air ride would smooth it out. I'm planning on getting some taller, narrower tires, 215/85-16.
I'm sure there are a few pros and cons... maybe you guys and gals can offer some advice?

Questions:
1a Can you have a combination of springs and air bags?

1b Or, do you just remove all the coil springs and install air bags?

2a If your compressor fails, are SOL?
2b You're stuck until you can fix the compressor and get air in the bags?

3 Could you even get it onto a flatbed?

First.... A 215/85-16 is a HD size/load rated tire & is not going to help w/ride quality issues if you're trying to soften the ride like a passenger car/LT truck tire will. Basic manual control air suspension set-ups can be set-up for stock height. You'll still be better off w/quality shocks vs. cheap shocks that fit.

1a/1b: Bags can be directly swapped where coils reside but it's not a direct swap. Brackets will be required to secure the bags where the coils were. You can run bags & coils or bags & leafs if desired. Bags will offer better ride quality vs. leafs on HD apps (how many leafs in the spring pack?).

2a: A properly installed air system will have a check valve/s so if the compressor 'fails' the air pressure already within the tank/s is what it is.
2b: A simple separate fill line from any air source can be added to the tank or supply routing lines to allow emergency fills if needed.

3: If you're not lowered, more than likely it wouldn't be an issue loading onto a flatbed. If the vehicle has other lowering parts (drop spindles, modified a-arms, relocated mounting/pivot points, etc) it might be an issue depending on what the ride height is.

[Asshat]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

First.... A 215/85-16 is a HD size/load rated tire & is not going to help w/ride quality issues if you're trying to soften the ride like a passenger car/LT truck tire will. Basic manual control air suspension set-ups can be set-up for stock height. You'll still be better off w/quality shocks vs. cheap shocks that fit.
is.

Is there another tire size that is tall like that one, that would offer a better ride?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Asshat

Is there another tire size that is tall like that one, that would offer a better ride?

You'll probably be limited on matching the height. That's a tall tire @ 30.3". A 245/75-16 is the same though. They're available in lt. truck type,

[bigmoe]

So would there be any ride advantage to use an air ride just for the ride, not lowering? I'm thinking a system with a schraeder valve and no pump, just experiment with different pressures to see how it rides.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by bigmoe

So would there be any ride advantage to use an air ride just for the ride, not lowering? I'm thinking a system with a schraeder valve and no pump, just experiment with different pressures to see how it rides.

It depends.

The air-spring/bag used & the air pressure required to put things in their correct range impact spring rate. Some air-springs/bags are more compliant vs others yielding slightly different spring rates vs other brands @ similar pressures. Coil springs can also be obtained in varying 'rates' as well so it's a similar comparison.

A stock height coil @ 450lb/in of spring rate will yield a softer ride vs a similar height coil @ 700lb/in spring rate.
A Firestone 2600# spring/bag (224c) @ 100psi/5.5"H 'ride' height will possibly yield a softer ride vs a Slam Specialties 2600# (RE7) @ the same pressure. The Firestone will also expand more in diameter vs the Slam Spec. spring

Can an air-spring (bag) suspension yield a better ride vs a coil set-up? Yes, if the spring rate is less than the coils springs rate @ similar installed heights. It will ultimately depend on what the current spring rate is that one starts with for a more specific answer.

Where air-springs/bags shine is in their adjustability w/loads. An air-bag set-up on the rear of trucks can increase capacity for loads w/o a linear increase in spring rate vs say a HD leaf set-up or HD Cargo style coils.

Schrader valves @ all 4-corners would be risky in my opinion. Yes, they work & can work if you're ok w/the pitfalls. But, if you have subtle changes in air pressure (100psi @ 50° in the AM has a different density vs 100psi @ 90° later in the day) it would impacts heights. That pressure variance impacting heights impacts alignment. Not so much a big deal out back but definitely something to consider up front. This is where the high-end 'air management systems w/height sensors' shine as they automatically adjust.

[goatless]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

It depends.
Schrader valves @ all 4-corners would be risky in my opinion. Yes, they work & can work if you're ok w/the pitfalls. But, if you have subtle changes in air pressure (100psi @ 50° in the AM has a different density vs 100psi @ 90° later in the day) it would impacts heights. That pressure variance impacting heights impacts alignment. Not so much a big deal out back but definitely something to consider up front. This is where the high-end 'air management systems w/height sensors' shine as they automatically adjust.

I have air bags in the rear (the 2600s), and I'm using Schrader valves for driver- and passenger-side. I've noticed the rear drops when it cools, and rises when it gets warm, maybe an inch or so. I'm running pretty low air pressure, FWIW.

Haven't had any issues other than this. I used Loctite 492145 545 Pneumatic/Hydraulic Thread Sealant, and haven't had to add air since I installed the bags a month ago.

If I were starting over, I'd go straight to shock relocators, adjustable track bar, a C-notch, and so-called static air bags.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by goatless

I have air bags in the rear (the 2600s), and I'm using Schrader valves for driver- and passenger-side. I've noticed the rear drops when it cools, and rises when it gets warm, maybe an inch or so. I'm running pretty low air pressure, FWIW.

Haven't had any issues other than this. I used Loctite 492145 545 Pneumatic/Hydraulic Thread Sealant, and haven't had to add air since I installed the bags a month ago.

If I were starting over, I'd go straight to shock relocators, adjustable track bar, a C-notch, and so-called static air bags.

I used a Schrader set-up for the back end of my 68 w/o issue for 6yrs. That being said, I would not do the same for fronts.

[goatless]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

I used a Schrader set-up for the back end of my 68 w/o issue for 6yrs. That being said, I would not do the same for fronts.

Thank you, kind sir. I will avoid that modification.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by goatless

Thank you, kind sir. I will avoid that modification.

If you're a little off on air pressures on the rear, it's not that big of a deal as there is no impact on the tread wear of your tires. It definitely makes a difference on the front end.

For the fronts, I would want on-board air supply @ a minimum on a driver. It can be a cheap/budget minded manual set-up w/paddle valves or one can get fancy w/a fully electric automated set-up that utilizes pressure/height sensors & a control 'brain/computer' that automatically adjusts as needed/desired @ the turn of the key or touch of a button.

You guys will have to figure out which is better for you.

[goatless]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

If you're a little off on air pressures on the rear, it's not that big of a deal as there is no impact on the tread wear of your tires. It definitely makes a difference on the front end.

For the fronts, I would want on-board air supply @ a minimum on a driver. It can be a cheap/budget minded manual set-up w/paddle valves or one can get fancy w/a fully electric automated set-up that utilizes pressure/height sensors & a control 'brain/computer' that automatically adjusts as needed/desired @ the turn of the key or touch of a button.

You guys will have to figure out which is better for you.

I’ll probably skip the fronts until I’m 100% ready to have on-board air.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by goatless

I have air bags in the rear (the 2600s), and I'm using Schrader valves for driver- and passenger-side. I've noticed the rear drops when it cools, and rises when it gets warm, maybe an inch or so. I'm running pretty low air pressure, FWIW.

Haven't had any issues other than this. I used Loctite 492145 545 Pneumatic/Hydraulic Thread Sealant, and haven't had to add air since I installed the bags a month ago.

If I were starting over, I'd go straight to shock relocators, adjustable track bar, a C-notch, and so-called static air bags.

I’ll probably skip the fronts until I’m 100% ready to have on-board air.

100% agreed on the shock relocation brackets, longer/adjustable Panhard bar, & c-notches. All worthy investments toward a solid combo.

[seabeevin]

I have a 65 c20, rides great.
I have 1/2 ton shocks (because they are what I had), 235/85-16E tires.
It rode like a buckboard until I lowered the air pressure in the tires to 55 lbs.
I am thinking about putting leaf springs in the back but the old girl just rides too nice. I'm definitely upgrading the front suspension, then I might go to 3/4 ton shocks.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by seabeevin

I have a 65 c20, rides great.
I have 1/2 ton shocks (because they are what I had), 235/85-16E tires.
It rode like a buckboard until I lowered the air pressure in the tires to 55 lbs.
I am thinking about putting leaf springs in the back but the old girl just rides too nice. I'm definitely upgrading the front suspension, then I might go to 3/4 ton shocks.

Not sure how much if any difference there will be between 1/2 vs 3/4 tons shocks. Shocks don't carry any load. They just help control the movement physics yield from compressing/extending the springs.

If your C20 has coils in the rear, no way I'd change them out for leafs. Coils will yield a better ride quality. If you have a need for more capacity, I'd do the air-bag within coil set-up for an increase in payload. Rides fine as-is & you can add some air when it's needed for a heavy load.

[seabeevin]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Not sure how much if any difference there will be between 1/2 vs 3/4 tons shocks. Shocks don't carry any load. They just help control the movement physics yield from compressing/extending the springs.

If your C20 has coils in the rear, no way I'd change them out for leafs. Coils will yield a better ride quality. If you have a need for more capacity, I'd do the air-bag within coil set-up for an increase in payload. Rides fine as-is & you can add some air when it's needed for a heavy load.

Usually piston diameter and dampening percentage for the shocks. The shocks I had were roasted, waisted, done, shot, no good, bad. I had a set of ones from a 1/2 ton, so I slapped them on.
I would go to leaf to get rid of the track bar....... unless I can fabricate a triangulated 4 link, or a watts link. And the old girl is still a working truck.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by seabeevin

Usually piston diameter and dampening percentage for the shocks. The shocks I had were roasted, waisted, done, shot, no good, bad. I had a set of ones from a 1/2 ton, so I slapped them on.
I would go to leaf to get rid of the track bar....... unless I can fabricate a triangulated 4 link, or a watts link. And the old girl is still a working truck.

On GOOD shocks maybe. Not typically from off the shelf @ the local auto parts store generic shocks.

What exactly is the problem w/a Panhard bar? It's a cost & design effective locating device for the T/A set-up on a street driven app. (especially a 'working truck'). For these trucks, a longer Panhard bar would be better vs the short ones from the factory.

Triangulated 4-links are a compromise w/the upper links fighting the lowers during suspension oscillation.
A Watts is overly complicated for a street truck

[seabeevin]

I sent you a message.