Air Rides new complete rear kit w/ trailing arms

[bagged74]

Im not sure yet. If I can fit them before the crossmember that is where they will go.

[dwcsr]

That looks good. And I think your right as others have said the price is a bit big. I would imagine that they have to bill in insurance for the guy that welds it in the the front of his truck and backwards and wonders why he wrecked his truck. We on the other hand have no one to sue if we wreck our truck after we weld up some bars.

The one thing I don't see is the problem with the short pan hard bar. The short bar has less angle and less arc there by less likely to have side to side movement. Most all 9" setups have a short bar so i'm confused as to why it should be a long bar on a 12 bolt.

[bagged74]

I disagree on the panhard bar, the shorter the bar the more arc. the more arc the more lateral movement. The short bar works great if you dont have alot of travel, and even works fine in stock form on these trucks for the most part.

[Musclerodz]

Originally Posted by dwcsr

That looks good. And I think your right as others have said the price is a bit big. I would imagine that they have to bill in insurance for the guy that welds it in the the front of his truck and backwards and wonders why he wrecked his truck. We on the other hand have no one to sue if we wreck our truck after we weld up some bars.

The one thing I don't see is the problem with the short pan hard bar. The short bar has less angle and less arc there by less likely to have side to side movement. Most all 9" setups have a short bar so i'm confused as to why it should be a long bar on a 12 bolt.

Short bars allow the rear to move laterally with lots of suspension travel. It does not matter what rear end it has. The longer the bar, the less side travel there will be.

Mike

[PBFAB.COM]

I have always been impressed by the quality and fit of Air Ride Technologies' products. They are expensive, but if that is the only complaint they have, they are doing pretty well. They sell a lot of stuff, so their prices must be acceptable to a number of people.

As far as this kit goes... it's a bolt in kit designed for individuals who have "bolt-in" capabilities. Would I throw it on my 67-72... no, but many of those looking for a bolt-in kit with no welding required definitely will.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

I just had a post with every question on this thread along with an answer.... and I deleted the damn thing before I got it up..... I will run back through and try it again.....

[LUV2XCLR8]

1st - From West TN

2nd - Should I assume by your User ID that u work 4 them ?

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by Musclerodz

Short bars allow the rear to move laterally with lots of suspension travel. It does not matter what rear end it has. The longer the bar, the less side travel there will be.

Mike

I'm just not seeing that as a problem the arc in that short difference in length is minimal unless your suspension is travaling 15 -20 inches. the arc change in an 8" up to down in minimal. its starts closer to center on the short bar rather that at the top on the arc in the long bar so I'm thinking that 4" up and 4" down is not enough to worry about the minimal side shift due to the arc. If it shifted a 1/4" I'd be very supprised. Where the long bar as we know shifts an 1" or better in 8" travel.

[bagged74]

1st...... I have to agree with you that the shift is not enough to worry about in most applications.

Originally Posted by dwcsr

Where the long bar as we know shifts an 1" or better in 8" travel.

2nd......where do you come up with this????? I dont see how you can think that the shorter bar will yield less lateral movement? I have a 36" bar on mine and get about 1/4" when cycling from full lift to full dump.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by Tony@AirRideTech

...and I deleted the damn thing before I got it up.....

Tony, please keep both hands on the keyboard.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by bagged74

I dont see how you can think that the shorter bar will yield less lateral movement?

Which moves through its arc faster for a given lift?

edit: Whoops, I meant to quote dwcsr... the graphic supports your comment, bagged74.

[Musclerodz]

Originally Posted by dwcsr

I'm just not seeing that as a problem the arc in that short difference in length is minimal unless your suspension is travaling 15 -20 inches. the arc change in an 8" up to down in minimal. its starts closer to center on the short bar rather that at the top on the arc in the long bar so I'm thinking that 4" up and 4" down is not enough to worry about the minimal side shift due to the arc. If it shifted a 1/4" I'd be very supprised. Where the long bar as we know shifts an 1" or better in 8" travel.

A properly installed panhard bar should be level or near it at ride height to minimize lateral movement in bounce and rebound. It is not just the shift of the rear that has to be considered, but also the compliance of the rubber bushings. If you don't allow enough fender lip clearance, you will be rubbing in a hard corner. I think you have it backwards, the long bar will have less lateral movement than the short bar in the same distance traveled. I am not knocking Air Ride hear at all as I know they have done there homework for their target customer, but if it was mine, I would probably trade the panhard for a watt's link.

Mike

[Musclerodz]

Originally Posted by LUV2XCLR8

1st - From West TN

2nd - Should I assume by your User ID that u work 4 them ?

Yes he does. Tony posts on sevral other sites I am on.

Mike

[Tony@AirRideTech]

I do work here at Air Ride and thanks for the welcome

Ok, first off you guys are correct in saying that a longer Panhard bar will have less lateral movement throughout the same amount of travel than a shorter bar will. However, as long as the bar is appropriately positioned within the given amount of travel a stock length bar will be more than long enough and keep the lateral movement minimal throughout 7-8" of travel. A watts link will keep the axle true and will not allow for any lateral movment. In fact the only problem with a watts link is that they are more expensive to build and extensive to compensate for in the design which greatly out weighs and any possible short commings a properly designed panhard has. Getting the panhard to run within its correct parameters is really the key and that is why you see the billet rear end bracket which relocates the axle mounting point.
Will this system "lay out"? .... Out of the box... no. It will require modification to do that. That is where we start getting back into a system that would be designed to lay out on the deck. That is where most guys will look at either a parallel four link or a true cantilevered four link. This system was engineered and designed for the guy who wants to get his truck as close to the ground without cutting it up. Once you have decided that you want to cut through the bed floor.... anything goes and there are so many variables that no one could produce one kit to cover them all. The biggest variable being different tire sizes.... that changes all the parameters on a kit that will hit the deck. Our Roadgrater for the S-10 is a perfect example of that. That kit will put an S-10 on the deck with tires that range from 28 to roughly 30 " tall.... the problem is that a lot of guy wanted to run that set up with 18's that are 25-26" tall..... by doing so you start loosing stroke and the overall ride height is compromised. Typically at that point ride quality is out the window because they have to drive with the system fully inflated....
As far as the shocks being placed perfectly vertical..... we keep the shocks on an angle to increase the motion ratio to give the suspension leverage over the shock. This will equate into a better ride and will actually give you more articulate travel at the wheel.
You guys fire away with any questions or comments.... I am open for suggestions.

[bagged69c10]

I dont understand the concept of the shock leaning. It doesnt make any sense how it wouldnt put alot of strain on the mounting points when it is fully inflatetd.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

Are you talking about the shocks being used as the travel limiters?

[bagged69c10]

I just dont get it.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

If you take a look under most modern vehicles... you will notice that they even lean the shocks on those. GM and Ford has always been real good at leaning them forward and aft.... and Dodge has done alot of them leaning inboard towards the center of the vehicle. It is essentially giving the weight and travel of the vehicle a mechanical advantage over the shock.

[Alvin]

Thanks for the answers Tony. Any chance that tubular trailing arm crossmember can be purchased seperately and used with the stock trailing arms? I really like the look, but don't have enough spare change for the whole kit.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by Tony@AirRideTech

If you take a look under most modern vehicles... you will notice that they even lean the shocks on those. GM and Ford has always been real good at leaning them forward and aft.... and Dodge has done alot of them leaning inboard towards the center of the vehicle. It is essentially giving the weight and travel of the vehicle a mechanical advantage over the shock.

A shock in full vertical position has only its physical compression and rebound dimensions to work with (ex, a shock that's 10" compressed and 16" extended would have just 6" of travel). However, by leaning the shock, the suspension actually has the ability to travel > 6" peak-to-peak... as the compression side of the action is lessened by the shock rotating down.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

what you are seeing is the mechanical advantage working against the shock.


And yes.... we can sell those components seperately

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Tony@AirRideTech

I do work here at Air Ride . . .....

There are those that would argue that one .

[Tony@AirRideTech]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

There are those that would argue that one .