how much $ into your dropmember

[bagged74]

Originally Posted by VA72C10

Noob question, but I am planning on a blazer and want to bag it. I am not planning on modifying the rear seats more than an inch or two so it will not lay in the rear....does it still make sense to do a dropmember? I would like to improve the geometry of the steering over just spindles and bags.

heres mine. the seat fits in the original position. thats with a dropmember front and 20s, and a step notch and custom trailing arms in the rear and 22s. the floor is raised under the seat, but the seat itself is in the stock location. you cant even see the floor mods with the seat installed.

[SCOTI]

If you want to get a truck low with great handling and front wheels centered in the wheel well. Mustang II is the best deal in my "hands on" opinion ...

This is where our opinions differ. I feel your "best deal" statement is vague.

Best deal if you don't have anything to begin with? Maybe.
Best deal if you're a capable welder w/the welding equipment? Possibly.
Best deal for certain applications? Yes; but these GM trucks I would not consider one of them nor would I for heavier full body cars that are already equipped w/OE 12" disc brakes.

If my 6X-87 running/driving truck is sitting in my driveway right now w/12" GM disc brakes, dropped spindles, air bags, plus wheels of my choice already installed & I'm wanting more drop while centering my front wheels, I don't see how one of those 'linked' kits is a better choice vs. a Porterbuilt Dropmember.

I'm always looking to learn new stuff so I priced a 'kit' using the provided link just for educating myself..... A 'universal' 60" width MII crossmember kit w/these options (pwr steer, sway bar tabs on the stock, stamped MII arms, 2" dropped spindles, 5x5 pattern 11" GM rotors/calipers, & req'd R&P extension kit); the total was $2130 shipped to me in TX.

So I've now spent $2130 to get a lower ride height w/stock MII coil spring/shock arrangement (bags are extra), & my wheels are centered in the fender opening. But.... I also lose 1" in brake rotor surface contact area vs. my stock GM truck 12" disc brakes along w/the corresponding smaller brake pads (agreeably, the brake pads are a small difference; but still a difference).

What if I don't have a welder? Can I still install that 2K+ MII crossmember? There was no 'option' in the link for a bolt-in kit. I know other manufacturers offer 'bolt-in' MII kits for classic Chevy trucks but that would be extra. Paying someone to install the entire kit would also add to the cost considerably because it's not like you could do some labor & then bring it to a shop to finish up. The bolt-in style MII GM truck kits will not get the truck as low as a Dropmember equipped truck.

So let's consider the DM. For $1200 + shipping + R&P (I'll call it $1550). I get a lower ride height that uses my existing a-arms, spindles, brakes, bags, & my wheels are centered in the fender opening (I'm adding $150 for a local auto parts brand rebuilt pwr R&P unit w/warranty).

The DM bolt's in using the factory frame holes. Even if I don't have a welder to finish the required notches, I could still do the majority of the install & pay someone to install (weld) only the notches. You could load/unload the truck off of a trailer w/o the R&P c-notches installed to get to a shop for welding & it's easier to get a reciprocating saw to cut the frame for the notches than it is to get a welder in the majority of cases.

Both of these installs would require custom steering linkage (shaft & u-joints) so that's a wash as far as effecting the overall cost.
That being said . . .... $2130 - 1550 = $580 difference; which is enough difference to say a lower priced 'universal MII kit' is not necessarily a better option vs. a GM truck specific Porterbuilt Dropmember.

Please don't take offense to my statements as I'm not attacking you personally. I'm here for sharing knowledge that helps everyone make better decisions as they consider options for building their vehicles. Sometimes spending less (or more) isn't the best choice w/o considering all criteria that dictates that choice.

[six5]

I'm always looking to learn new stuff so I priced a 'kit' using the provided link just for educating myself..... A 'universal' 60" width MII crossmember kit w/these options (pwr steer, sway bar tabs on the stock, stamped MII arms, 2" dropped spindles, 5x5 pattern 11" GM rotors/calipers, & req'd R&P extension kit); the total was $2130 shipped to me in TX.

Good wright up. But like I said the link to Ray J's is at the high end of a Mustang II front end. You can buy all the parts needed directly from each manufacture for a lot less than the middle man sells their "kit" like the company Ray J does on there website.

P Builts DM is great for the a guy who does not have a welder. So I agree with you on that. But even if you don't own a welder, chances are you know someone that does. And I realize not everyone has the ability to fabricate. So yes, those things have to be taken into consideration.

When I get around to doing my truck with the M II I will post pictures and prices.

Here is another good vendor for M II....... http://www.fulltiltstreetrods.com/hub_to_hub.htm

No offense taken Scoti.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by six5

You can buy all the parts needed directly from each manufacture for a lot less than the middle man sells their "kit" like the company Ray J does on there website.

So it's not a kit anymore if I'm running around piecing other people's (hopefully) compatible parts together. Who do I call when part A doesn't work with part B?

[six5]

The word "kit" is used lightly. XXL do you actually fabricate or build hot rods? Because if you did, you would be able to answer you own question..... Compatibility has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

You can go with Heidt's, Fat Man or Full Tilt Street Rods to name a few and all their parts will interchange. Those guys have been selling parts a lot longer than any C-10 DM companies.

tds sorry this Mustang II issue has somewhat high jacked you thread. Lets get back to you original question of :

"Just wondering what every one has into the dropmemeber with everything, including labor if you had it professionally installed. Just trying to find the average to compare against my z quote."

Anybody else with info on tds's original post???

[lowdownstar]

"Lets get back to your original question"

for me $1650 so far!

Porter built drop member


Ray

[XXL]

Originally Posted by six5

XXL do you actually fabricate or build hot rods? Because if you did, you would be able to answer you own question..... Compatibility has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Well, it looks like you tried to answer the question for me. Unfortunately, you may have gotten the wrong answer. First, while I used to be "in the business," I'm not any more. Does that mean I don't know what I'm taking about? Maybe, but... I've done much of the work on the Wallet Eater, I'm building a 500+ hp 4-banger daily driver that averages 26.5 mpg, I developed the AutoDrive product (Mods: not currently in production, I'm not selling anything here), I worked on the Artemis Systems EOS (mentioned here and here, product predates their web presence) and developed the Meret Audio line of speakers-- which made Stereophile's Class B recommended list, I've got 6 patents registered in the USPTO, with another 5 in application status, and I can juggle while tap dancing and singing the Star Spangled Banner. But... I'm not a fabricator, nor do I build hot rods. Thanks for asking.

[RunninLo]

I have a welder and am more than capable of using it. I also have 21 years experience building lowered suspension including z'd frames. Based on my personal experience for my own build I chose a dropmember because it is very tough to beat in it's design and execution so much so that others have chosen to knock-off it's design. Now I will admit I am probably the original member of the porterbuilt man-crush club but I came by it honestly. as I have said in many of my previous postings on this subject, Nate is a class act and the value that he adds will ensure that all the copies will never be quite good enough.
Plain and simple leave the car parts on the cars and use purpose built products to get the job done.

To answer the original question I have
$1450 in my front DM with about 2 hours labor ( my old shop rate was $50/hr so figure $100 in labor)when I bought mine Nate still supplied it all so that price includes my tranny xmember, rack, and steering linkage.
I added upper and lower strong arms and McGaughy's spindles for another $1000 and had bags laying around. That puts me about $2550 installed as pictured in my build post.

Based on my experience I could not have achieved everything to the same level of form and function for that amount by "z" ing. Believe me I have tried on previous customers trucks for years. That is why you see top quality fabricators with more than enough skills to complete a "z" ( Frizzle, Rokcrln,and others) going with the porter products. Bolt -in, quick, and clean.

That's my story and I'm standin behind it.
Josh

[tds]

Originally Posted by Rokcrln

Remember "Apples to Apples" so with your 2K Z will that also be all new steering parts? With the DM you provide a new Rack and Nate sends you the new outers so now your steering would be all new. Also the DM gives you better steering (by design) and better handling even with the standard kit. Also I don't think you will need a body drop with a DM. Spend a small amount more now and you will be much happier later.

Kevin
LFD Inc.

it's about even price wise at the moment. so that puts the dm out a ahead. i plan on putting alot of miles on this summer. see how it handles and see how i feel. but i bet it would be really nice to get the dm and totally refresh the front end.

as for the body drop. i'm gonna play it buy ear. my plan is to body drop to the rocker thou. then fully lay out when i want but for daily driving shim it up so the body never really touches anything. me and my buddy both have square bodied c-10's so we kinda in a competition of who can be lower. hopefully i can out shine with a dm and body drop. hopefully i don't have to give the roof a haircut

[tds]

Originally Posted by six5

The word "kit" is used lightly. XXL do you actually fabricate or build hot rods? Because if you did, you would be able to answer you own question..... Compatibility has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

You can go with Heidt's, Fat Man or Full Tilt Street Rods to name a few and all their parts will interchange. Those guys have been selling parts a lot longer than any C-10 DM companies.

tds sorry this Mustang II issue has somewhat high jacked you thread. Lets get back to you original question of :

"Just wondering what every one has into the dropmemeber with everything, including labor if you had it professionally installed. Just trying to find the average to compare against my z quote."

Anybody else with info on tds's original post???

no worries on my part. i love a friendly debate. it's the only way i'll learn

[tds]

Originally Posted by lowdownstar

"Lets get back to your original question"

for me $1650 so far!

Porter built drop member


Ray

thats a number i could live with

[tds]

Originally Posted by RunninLo

I have a welder and am more than capable of using it. I also have 21 years experience building lowered suspension including z'd frames. Based on my personal experience for my own build I chose a dropmember because it is very tough to beat in it's design and execution so much so that others have chosen to knock-off it's design. Now I will admit I am probably the original member of the porterbuilt man-crush club but I came by it honestly. as I have said in many of my previous postings on this subject, Nate is a class act and the value that he adds will ensure that all the copies will never be quite good enough.
Plain and simple leave the car parts on the cars and use purpose built products to get the job done.

To answer the original question I have
$1450 in my front DM with about 2 hours labor ( my old shop rate was $50/hr so figure $100 in labor)when I bought mine Nate still supplied it all so that price includes my tranny xmember, rack, and steering linkage.
I added upper and lower strong arms and McGaughy's spindles for another $1000 and had bags laying around. That puts me about $2550 installed as pictured in my build post.

Based on my experience I could not have achieved everything to the same level of form and function for that amount by "z" ing. Believe me I have tried on previous customers trucks for years. That is why you see top quality fabricators with more than enough skills to complete a "z" ( Frizzle, Rokcrln,and others) going with the porter products. Bolt -in, quick, and clean.

That's my story and I'm standin behind it.
Josh

thanks for the insightful answer. i really wish nate still sold everything. it would make my decision that much either.

you guys have pretty much talked me into a dm. i'm gonna have to talk it up with nate and my builder soon.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by tds

Just wondering what every one has into the dropmemeber with everything, including labor if you had it professionally installed. Just trying to find the average to compare against my z quote. Thanks in advance guys. Hopefully you guys don't mind talking $...

Is there a certain reason you inquire about "including labor if you had it professionally installed"? The great thing about the DM is you can install it in your driveway in a day. I did my 1st one in a couple of hours but I already had my front clip off for body work & the drivetrain was out because I was swapping to a V8/auto-OD trans so that definitely helped.

Other than that, the DM kits comes w/all the specific stuff required for the install. You have to purchase the steering items (R&P, shaft, u-joints). If you had a 'Z' done, you wouldn't have to get the R&P, but you'd prob still have the costs of the shaft & u-joints.

So mine was less than the $1550 mentioned in the other post. I had about $275 in the steering parts on top of that (I already had the shaft & 1 u-joint from my notched factory c.member installation but included the full price).

[tds]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Is there a certain reason you inquire about "including labor if you had it professionally installed"? The great thing about the DM is you can install it in your driveway in a day. I did my 1st one in a couple of hours but I already had my front clip off for body work & the drivetrain was out because I was swapping to a V8/auto-OD trans so that definitely helped.

Other than that, the DM kits comes w/all the specific stuff required for the install. You have to purchase the steering items (R&P, shaft, u-joints). If you had a 'Z' done, you wouldn't have to get the R&P, but you'd prob still have the costs of the shaft & u-joints.

So mine was less than the $1550 mentioned in the other post. I had about $275 in the steering parts on top of that (I already had the shaft & 1 u-joint from my notched factory c.member installation but included the full price).

i just thought id ask if any one had it professionally installed. just to get an idea. i could do it myself with some help but i usually try to work 60 hours a week and also i'd have to buy some new tools and also the fact i know nothing of installing a rack and pinion. i would just have to compare the labor quote with how much my time and space is worth. my builder is also a younger guy that puts out some crazy work but doesn't get solid year round work like many southern builders, so i try to support him as much as possible.

i'm gonna have to serious sit down with nate's list and get firm prices on everything soon. i'm heart broken i missed the march 1 deadline thou.

[RunninLo]

TDS swing by my burb build linked in my sig. If you can change your own oil and played with legos (tm ) as a kid you can install a DM. I set of SAE wrenches, a sawsall, and a cherry picker are all you need. A welder is needed for the steering notches but a fair priced shop with a certifed welder should be willing to weld them up for you for around $100 it honestly wouldn't take more than 15 mins if you already had the frame prep'd. The actual rack bolts in with 2 bolts on aluminum bushings it's easier than changing spark plugs.

good luck,
Josh

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by RunninLo

.....If you can change your own oil and played with legos as a kid you can install a DM. I set of SAE wrenches, a sawsall, and a cherry picker are all you need. A welder is needed for the steering notches but a fair priced shop with a certifed welder should be willing to weld them up for you for around $100 it honestly wouldn't take more than 15 mins if you already had the frame prep'd. The actual rack bolts in with 2 bolts on aluminum bushings it's easier than changing spark plugs.

good luck,
Josh

Uh-hem . ..... You'll also need one of those pesky tape measure thingies.
They really help w/locating the C/L of the R&P notches .

[tds]

Originally Posted by RunninLo

TDS swing by my burb build linked in my sig. If you can change your own oil and played with legos (tm ) as a kid you can install a DM. I set of SAE wrenches, a sawsall, and a cherry picker are all you need. A welder is needed for the steering notches but a fair priced shop with a certifed welder should be willing to weld them up for you for around $100 it honestly wouldn't take more than 15 mins if you already had the frame prep'd. The actual rack bolts in with 2 bolts on aluminum bushings it's easier than changing spark plugs.

good luck,
Josh

I have all the wrenches I could ever need, got a good lithium sawzall, the cherry picker and welder I could borrow from my father in law. Maybe I'm over estimating how much work is needed. I'm a half assed decent mechanic but I always get alittle nervous jumping into big projects like this. Must the tranny be pulled?

I got a whole drawer full of squares and tapes too

[lolife99]

Tranny needs to be raised with a new PB trans. crossmember,... since the engine will now set 1" higher. (the tranny gets raised 1" also).

I suggest you call Nathan Porter and vent your concerns to him. He's great to deal with,... and can answer all your questions.

[crawdadfox]

I am in my front Dropmember for right at $3,000 but that was at Nates old price of $1250 and i'm including spndles, bags, ART a-arms (at the old price!), steering linkage, rebuilt rack and power steering hose kit. The rear Dropmember was complete for about $ 2,000 shipped. While five grand on suspension is not in everyones budget, it gives someone with basic tools and average skill level the ability to end up with a finished product that you would have paid double that price in having it scratch built at a custom shop.

[C10Sim]

Originally Posted by tds

thanks for the insightful answer. i really wish nate still sold everything. it would make my decision that much either.

you guys have pretty much talked me into a dm. i'm gonna have to talk it up with nate and my builder soon.

Nate you think we can get a sales commission

[tds]

Originally Posted by lolife99

Tranny needs to be raised with a new PB trans. crossmember,... since the engine will now set 1" higher. (the tranny gets raised 1" also).

I suggest you call Nathan Porter and vent your concerns to him. He's great to deal with,... and can answer all your questions.

i will do that once my truck gets out of the shop at it's current state. that why i don't have to drop money into fix the leaking steering lines that i have now....

[tds]

Originally Posted by crawdadfox

I am in my front Dropmember for right at $3,000 but that was at Nates old price of $1250 and i'm including spndles, bags, ART a-arms (at the old price!), steering linkage, rebuilt rack and power steering hose kit. The rear Dropmember was complete for about $ 2,000 shipped. While five grand on suspension is not in everyones budget, it gives someone with basic tools and average skill level the ability to end up with a finished product that you would have paid double that price in having it scratch built at a custom shop.

to start off i really love your truck! your prices seem reasonable. even more so when you remove those art arms. those things are ridiculously priced. stock lower control arms and custom uppers for me.

[six5]

Originally Posted by XXL

Well, it looks like you tried to answer the question for me. Unfortunately, you may have gotten the wrong answer. First, while I used to be "in the business," I'm not any more. Does that mean I don't know what I'm taking about? Maybe, but... I've done much of the work on the Wallet Eater, I'm building a 500+ hp 4-banger daily driver that averages 26.5 mpg, I developed the AutoDrive product (Mods: not currently in production, I'm not selling anything here), I worked on the Artemis Systems EOS (mentioned here and here, product predates their web presence) and developed the Meret Audio line of speakers-- which made Stereophile's Class B recommended list, I've got 6 patents registered in the USPTO, with another 5 in application status, and I can juggle while tap dancing and singing the Star Spangled Banner. But... I'm not a fabricator, nor do I build hot rods. Thanks for asking.

I guess you got me with that post. I am 38 and retired so I don't really have much in the way of bragging rights...........

[tds]

Originally Posted by six5

I guess you got me with that post. I am 38 and retired so I don't really have much in the way of bragging rights...........

welcome to the internet. no one cares about your personal life

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by tds

welcome to the internet. no one cares about your personal life

He was just playing w/XXL . . ... playing well @ that. You did something right somewhere to be retired @ 38 .