Wrecked K5s: a case study

[special-K]

Originally Posted by BRUISER

I don't consider them dangerous. How many convertible Mustangs are sold every year, or full convertibles? I am much more mindful of my driving when kids are in the back, but I'm not going to sell them or cage them or stop driving them with the top off - its not a death sentence. Use common sense and enjoy.

Originally Posted by bowtieguy79

I couldn't agree with you more, use of common sense with old trucks goes together like PB and Jelly. You can have one with out the other, but they go so much better together

Not being a smartass,but you guys talk like you're the only one on the road. All the common sense and sensibility is moot when it comes to all the other fools out there with their heads up their ying yang,not to mention unforeseen variable,such as a blow out,or any numbers of things. Being fully aware can help you avoid more things,but it can never eliminate all possibilities. Hey,I'm not a worry wart and not afraid to take certain risks in life. Just sayin'...

Like I said,I travelled from Maryland to the Grand Canyon,all around northern NM,SW CO,SE NV,and northern Z,and back to Maryland,s well as countless beach and mountain camping trips from Edisto Is.,SC to Cape Cod with my kids in the back in a box made of 2x2s covered in aluminum siding. And,our family car was a '90 K5 for 18 years.

Another point about a k5 vs Mustang or other car convertibles,which should be obvious,is they are far less prone to roll over than a K5 by a large factor. Add taller sidewall tires and some lift...you can figure out the rest. The only vehicles I have ever laid on the side were both lifted with tall tire 4wds and both were due to a tire issue. And yes,the tires were fairly new in tip top condition

[68Timber]

Tim, all good points. My comment about convertible cars was only meant to point out that new cars are sold every day with nothing to keep the car off your noggin except a windshield pillar, so the half-cab shouldn't be discounted so quickly. You've got me beat on the years of service, but between my first two K5's they were my only means of transportation for 11 years. Like you said, you can't plan for idiots and I met a few. For what it's worth, I'll share the three that come to mind.

In an 83 K5 that my parents bought new and gave to me in 87, I was on a four lane highway going low 60 mph when a car didn't see me and pulled out in front of me. I had to yank the wheel hard left to avoid a collision, there was no room at all to brake - that would have been a certain rear-end collision. All four tires yelped, but I changed to the left lane and missed hitting the car. It was all stock and needless to say I was pretty amazed.

Second time around it was the early 90's and the 83 K5 was gone but I'd brought home another one, a 76 that was still stock. The wheels were 15x8 white wagon wheels with 31x10.50 Cooper Discoverer tires and the same incident as above happened except with two buddies riding but with the same result - I had to change lanes so fast the tires hollered but I missed the guy that pulled out of the gas station on to the four lane in front of me. All this without running off the road into the median or rolling, but when the tires protest that loudly you know you pushed the limits further than you'd ever want to.

About three years later in the same 76 K5, I'm driving and my toddler daughter was in her car seat belted in the rear center of the back seat. I'd added a 2.5" Rancho lift and RS5000 shocks and new replacement rear leaf springs with new bushings over the rear block lift. The plans were for 33x12.50 tires on 15x10 wheels, but it was still riding on the 15x8 wagon wheels and 31x10.50 Cooper tires since they were brand new when I bought the truck and still had tons of miles left on them. This was another 4-lane incident and similar to the first two but with a twist. I was coming up on a slower moving Jeep Cherokee at low 60's mph, so I checked my mirrors to change lanes and when I looked up the Jeep was on the brakes and I was about to hit it. We've all been down 4-lane highways and seen the houses that line them very sporadically, and this Jeep was turning into the driveway of one. So for a third time I yanked the wheel hard left but this time the right front tire blew. I can't explain why the truck didn't roll, you'd think it should have. I guess He had bigger plans for me and my daughter.

But anyway, however you slice it, I've had three more very close calls in a K5 than I want to have had but they handled better than you'd expect. Maybe I should have said we're not talking about CJ5's or CJ7's. Or maybe I got it right the first time, enjoy them and use your common sense and you should be fine. I definitely recommend replacing or upgrading the springs, shocks, and bushings. I've done all the above to both of mine with the exception of rear bushings on the rear of my CUCV, but I have the bushings and will do the job. Even mildly lifted, they handle better than you'd think. I'm not against anyone upgrading for safety at all, but the tone seemed to be describing them more unsafe than I think they are.

[swissarmychainsaw]

Originally Posted by bowtieguy79

I stuff my kiddo's in back of my K5 when the weather is nice. We have talked about taking it on Vacation this summer.... This makes me cringe to think about the what ifs.. etc

I've had thoughts about a station wagon... maybe its time to think more heavily on that for a family cruiser?

For this reason, I went with a Suburban. Love convertibles, but not so much with my 5 year old in the back.

So far, the BURB has been awesome too! It's old chevy goodness in a monster truck package!

[eighteenninetytwo]

I'm on the seat thing too. GMC yukon / Cadillac Escalade apparently have third row sets with integral shoulder belts.

[Irish1941]

Remember the seat & belts are only as good as the floor it's bolted to. Big plates on the underside should hold it in.
Found a photo online of the factory rear roll bar. There are plates that go underneath and sandwich the floor pan and wheel tubs.

[special-K]

I wonder what the cost was for that option? It's a chunk of meat right there,and I'm sure GM wasn't giving them away. That,and the concept of "safety" these days goes far beyond what it was years ago. You wonder how we all survived. Thing is,I don't believe any less are dieing on our hiways than before. The safer they make them the worse people drive. Like what Bruiser is saying,the car won't save your life,that's up to you (as much as is in your control)

[Boog]

I never did any offroading with my Blazers. Just daily commuting. They are fun vehicles. We loved driving in the snow with them. While mine were all stock suspension and tire sizes never at any time did we feel unsafe in them. A lot of highway miles were put on them too. The Chalet, now that one I'd be leary off rolling over. Looks to me she's top heavy.
Common sense or lack of has a lot to do with how dangerous any vehicle can be. And then there are the unexpected things like John experienced, 3 times no less.

[68Timber]

On my military Blazer I've installed new bushings on the front leaf springs but not on the rear, and you can tell a big difference between front and rear as you go over bumps. The bushings lock up to the spring and bushing eye bolt sleeves as age and rust mate them together and they quit articulating like they should. As long as they're fresh enough to operate as designed, a square K5 handles pretty dang well. Replacing spring eye and shackle bushings is necessary though.

[special-K]

Wouldn't it be nice if there could be bearings in the spring eyes rather than bushings? Or,how about just some space age composite bushing or coating. I always slather with anti-seize,for what it's worth. I figure I'll be back into it on my older stuff before it's all galled up. It's a maybe on higher mileage stuff. Heck,even some crazy semi-permanent lube that lasts forever (figure of speech) would be nice. There are greaseable shackles. I'd like to have those

[68Timber]

That would be nice. I hate spring eye bolts almost as much as bumper bolts. I'm using the Energy Suspension lube that comes with the bushings. It is very tacky, hopefully it'll last.

[Irish1941]

When I bought my current '89, it was a butt pucker ride home and I've driven some real junk. Bone stock, no lift but just plain wore out and junk mis-matched tires. Drove it 70 miles and it was all over the road. Rear end was so wobbly felt like it was going to go over in a gentle turn.
I installed grease-able shackle bushings and it was night and day difference. Just need to stay on them or they start to squeak but one problem I noticed is the bushing sleeve is sloppy on the bolts and there is no serrations to bite it to the shackle plate. Ended up making my own sleeves from DOM tube for a better fit.

[68Timber]

I forgot to mention, I order new spring and shackle bolts from Husky Spring. One of those, as long as I've got it apart, may as well...

[68Timber]

Originally Posted by Irish1941

When I bought my current '89, it was a butt pucker ride home and I've driven some real junk. Bone stock, no lift but just plain wore out and junk mis-matched tires. Drove it 70 miles and it was all over the road. Rear end was so wobbly felt like it was going to go over in a gentle turn.
I installed grease-able shackle bushings and it was night and day difference. Just need to stay on them or they start to squeak but one problem I noticed is the bushing sleeve is sloppy on the bolts and there is no serrations to bite it to the shackle plate. Ended up making my own sleeves from DOM tube for a better fit.

When I pulled the front shackle bushings out of the frame on my green truck they were so egged out they couldn't have been doing much of anything, but you can't see them behind the shackles.

[special-K]

I hate the pulling old springs part. After that,I love doing suspension and axle work. I figure on cutting the shackle/spring eye bolts,and have all new hardware,shackles,and bushings,any time I pull original springs. Usually,it's the rear that gives me trouble. When I pulled the springs off my Suburban for the Jimmy it was a breeze,since I had installed them 8 years earlier and slathered the anti-seize. And,that had been new hardware

[68Timber]

Originally Posted by special-K

I hate the pulling old springs part. After that,I love doing suspension and axle work. I figure on cutting the shackle/spring eye bolts,and have all new hardware,shackles,and bushings,any time I pull original springs. Usually,it's the rear that gives me trouble. When I pulled the springs off my Suburban for the Jimmy it was a breeze,since I had installed them 8 years earlier and slathered the anti-seize. And,that had been new hardware

Can you get a sawzall blade in-between the shackles and hangers on the rear to get to the spring eye bolt? I've always taken them off with a socket on a breaker bar.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by BRUISER

Can you get a sawzall blade in-between the shackles and hangers on the rear to get to the spring eye bolt? I've always taken them off with a socket on a breaker bar.

Yes,kind of. But I gave up because the hard bolts don't like to be cut. I used a mini-grinder with a thin metal cutting wheel. You can cut so you take some spring and none of the hanger. I have put a cut in the lower part of the hanger before and welded it up. The breaker bar with pipe extension (floor jack handle) is my usual method

[Ski-me]

And the final shot....

[eighteenninetytwo]

Is there a reason why people fit these things OVER the carpeting or is it just expediency? I was planning on doing it before I fitted floor covering is all.

[Ski-me]

I didn't want to cut holes out of the carpet and figured if I was sandwiching the two together, it wouldn't make too much of a difference.

I believe factory wise, they did put it metal to metal though....

[special-K]

Nice! I'd like to find one

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by special-K

Nice! I'd like to find one

Agree; nice - although it doesn't look like it would take much to make one from scratch (or from a kit).

K

[special-K]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Agree; nice - although it doesn't look like it would take much to make one from scratch (or from a kit).

K

Yeah. I have nothing,so that's what I plan to do...a hole cage (unless I run across one first)

[bowtieguy79]

Originally Posted by special-K

Nice! I'd like to find one

Agree, but man around here, its like finding a unicorn

[bowtieguy79]

Originally Posted by bowtieguy79

Agree, but man around here, its like finding a unicorn

Ya so found my unicorn... Make some phone calls and you can find about anything.

[Irish1941]

haha! That's awesome! What...8hrs later you have one. Cool