Just got an NV4500, can't find the oil

[El Dorado Jim]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

Guy

Haven't made the trans swap yet. However, in gathering all the parts I went to both my local GM and Dodge dealer about 2 months ago. Dodge said they will no longer sell it as it was recently discontinued. The salesman actually showed me the recent bulliton corporate sent out stating such. He had a few quarts on hand at around $23/qt.
Then I went down the street to the Chevy dealership. They can still get it at $33/qt but they don't stock it. The twist is you have to order it in quantities of 6.
I wasn't ready to commit to that so I went down the street to the local pub and drank large quantities of beer.
That's about where I left off. In hindsight, I probably drank enough thinking about it the tab would have covered the cost of the fluid.

[Old57]

I just ordered the AC-Delco 10-4119 oil from Summit. It was $21.99 qt.

[kwmech]

Rebuild shop I used to deal with occasionally in Sacramento rebuilds them and tells us to just put 20-50 in them

[andyh1956]

Originally Posted by Old57

I'm waiting on my t-case adapter from AA to put my figure 8 NP205 behind it, and I'm going to drill/tap the holes to use my SM465 bell housing.

I'm interested in this statement. Are the holes D'd & T'd in the bell housing or the face of the transmission?
I've not measured yet but have been told the 4500 trans input is longer than the 465s.
I would like to do the same thing as you're doing!

['63GENIII]

I ran the Amsoil stuff in mine. Over 5 years on it and no issues. I was having a hard time finding the GM or Dodge stuff when I put mine in. Already had the 20% off membership card so IIRC, it was about $100 including the extra quart.

I also had the dubious honor of finding out what happens when the wrong oil is used on those transmissions.

[mongocanfly]

Which makes me wonder about what kwmech was told by the trans shop..when they said just put 20/50 in it...the synchros are the reason for the special oil...its not a risk I'd be willing to take....

[Old57]

Originally Posted by andyh1956

I'm interested in this statement. Are the holes D'd & T'd in the bell housing or the face of the transmission?
I've not measured yet but have been told the 4500 trans input is longer than the 465s.
I would like to do the same thing as you're doing!

On the 92-95 NV4500, the front bearing retainer is the same size as the NV4500, so the bell housing will fit on. The holes are drilled and tapped into the face of the NV4500, which still are on the mounting ears. The 96-up NV4500 has a bigger bearing retainer and needs the AA bell housing. The AA adapter for the transfer case ends up making the 205 sit about 1" longer than the stock SM465/205. You have to cut off a few inches of the output shaft and use a coupler from AA in the kit.

[Old57]

I almost went ahead and got the Amsoil, but I confirmed that the AC-Delco 10-4119 was the factory GM oil, so I went with it.

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Which makes me wonder about what kwmech was told by the trans shop..when they said just put 20/50 in it...the synchros are the reason for the special oil...its not a risk I'd be willing to take....

Yeah, me too. I will say that if "normal" gear oil is used, the synchros WILL be hooped in short order. The PO of my 4500 did exactly that but said it worked perfectly when it was pulled. I quickly found out how to rebuild a transmission after driving it less than a mile. Syncros were glazed like doughnuts.

The Amsoil dealer swore up, down and sideways that their MTL (?) was the right stuff. Also he (and his "guarantee") were easier to find than the guy I bought the trans off of in the first place should something have gone wrong. For me it came down to the cost of the oil vs dropping that 150+ pound brick on the driveway again.

['63GENIII]

Just pulled one of the quarts off the shelf in the garage. One is a clear bottle, the other is silver. Both say "Manual Transmission & Transaxle Gear Lube" SAE 75W-90 API GL-4.

Don't know where I got MTL from. Might have been the stuff in the Denali transfer case. Cant keep track anymore.

[andyh1956]

Originally Posted by Old57

On the 92-95 NV4500, the front bearing retainer is the same size as the NV4500, so the bell housing will fit on. The holes are drilled and tapped into the face of the NV4500, which still are on the mounting ears. The 96-up NV4500 has a bigger bearing retainer and needs the AA bell housing. The AA adapter for the transfer case ends up making the 205 sit about 1" longer than the stock SM465/205. You have to cut off a few inches of the output shaft and use a coupler from AA in the kit.

OK then so the bolts protrude thru the bell housing into the trans. (Studs May Be Best)
I guess the holes need to be spot faced inside so the heads of the bolts (Or Nuts) sit square.
My trans is a '94.
Thanks!

[Old57]

Originally Posted by andyh1956

OK then so the bolts protrude thru the bell housing into the trans. (Studs May Be Best)
I guess the holes need to be spot faced inside so the heads of the bolts (Or Nuts) sit square.
My trans is a '94.
Thanks!

The transmission face is tapped and the bolts go through the bell housing and into the transmission. Doing it like this, the transmission and bell housing get installed as 1 unit like some late model transmissions. If you don't want it like that, you'll need to get the stock 94 NV4500 bell with passenger side hydraulic release, or get the AA bell.

[Old57]

Originally Posted by '63GENIII

Just pulled one of the quarts off the shelf in the garage. One is a clear bottle, the other is silver. Both say "Manual Transmission & Transaxle Gear Lube" SAE 75W-90 API GL-4.

Don't know where I got MTL from. Might have been the stuff in the Denali transfer case. Cant keep track anymore.

Is this on the Amsoil? After everything I've read about the horror stories of using the wrong oil, I wanted to make 100 percent sure I got the right stuff!

[mongocanfly]

("Cant keep track anymore...")

I know what ya mean genlll...I've started using a sharpie to write on stuff in my cabinets to what it belongs to....

[Old57]

Here is a little more info I got from a friend of mine today that works at the parts counter at a Dodge dealership. I asked him about the NV4500 oil, Mopar P/N 4874459, which has been discontinued. He told me the P/N 68218057AB is what Mopar substituted for the discontinued oil. He said it was $5.99 qt. This oil is ATF+4. This was told to me by a Mopar dealership employee. I can't say I'd be comfortable trying this fluid in my NV4500, but it sounds like this is what Mopar is putting in them at the dealerships. I know some manual transmissions do use ATF. Has anyone else tried using this?

['63GENIII]

You first.

When I had a truck with a ZF 5 speed, I was amazed that it called for ATF. So yes it is used in manual transmissions.

Have I ever heard of it used in the 4500? Not yet. If it is the hot ticket though, its gonna save some money on those oil changes!

From memory, Im pretty sure that the 4500 oil and the ATF are fairly different viscosities. If Im not mistaken, most of the concern was use of the correct oil for the synchros which I was told were faced with Kevlar. I think that many automatic transmissions run Kevlar frictions in them these days. No?

[Old57]

I agree, I'm sure the ATF+4 is good on the synchros, but I'd be concerned that it wouldn't be so good on the gear teeth faces. Yes, that would be a cheap fluid change. I think I'll wait to hear from someone that has about 50k on an NV4500 running it though, before I try it

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by Old57

Is this on the Amsoil? After everything I've read about the horror stories of using the wrong oil, I wanted to make 100 percent sure I got the right stuff!

Yessir. Both Amsoil. Bought at different times, hence the different bottles. Same snake oil though.

I did look up the use of motor oil and ATF. There was one guy who did use both at different times. He really didn't post a "result" so to speak.

Im kinda OCD and tend to lose sleep over things like this. Really not trying to scare anyone off of whatever you're gonna use.

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by Old57

I agree, I'm sure the ATF+4 is good on the synchros, but I'd be concerned that it wouldn't be so good on the gear teeth faces. Yes, that would be a cheap fluid change. I think I'll wait to hear from someone that has about 50k on an NV4500 running it though, before I try it

Just read back to see you got the GM stuff. Ill sleep ok tonight now...haha

[Old57]

I know what you mean, haha! I made this thread because I was actually laying awake at night thinking about what to use in it. I've been doing the complete swap in my head every night in anticipation of when the AA adapter kit shows up

[kwmech]

MTL is a Redline product

[kwmech]

Originally Posted by Old57

The transmission face is tapped and the bolts go through the bell housing and into the transmission. Doing it like this, the transmission and bell housing get installed as 1 unit like some late model transmissions. If you don't want it like that, you'll need to get the stock 94 NV4500 bell with passenger side hydraulic release, or get the AA bell.

There was a write up on using the chevy cast iron bellhousing for the 4500 swap on this website or Pirate 4x. The poster of the article redrilled the cast iron bell and threaded it. It was a real clean job


Finally found it: LockDoc did it http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...00+bellhousing

[Old57]

Originally Posted by kwmech

There was a write up on using the chevy cast iron bellhousing for the 4500 swap on this website or Pirate 4x. The poster of the article redrilled the cast iron bell and threaded it. It was a real clean job


Finally found it: LockDoc did it http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...00+bellhousing

Ok that's good to know. I'll know more about it when I get my 465 pulled out and get the bell housing fit to the 4500. My AA transfer case adapter kit shipped yesterday, and tracking shows it'll be here next Friday.

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by kwmech

There was a write up on using the chevy cast iron bellhousing for the 4500 swap on this website or Pirate 4x. The poster of the article redrilled the cast iron bell and threaded it. It was a real clean job


Finally found it: LockDoc did it http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...00+bellhousing

LockDoc did a great job on that and likely works better than the adapter BH that I used. Looks to be the taller style pressure plate that he used too. The adapter BH needs to be clearance to use the bigger PP. Cool find KW!

[Old57]

UPS came through today and delivered my Advance Adapters kit and a new flat transmission cover. I modified the other new cover to work with my shifters with the SM465, but now it'll need to be different so I'm starting over. I got the special oil on Wednesday. This evening, I shortened the output shaft according to the AA instructions, and installed the new tail shaft housing. All of the pictures I've seen of the adapter housing, it was aluminum. I was pleasantly surprised to get it and it was heavy cast iron. Earlier in the week, I cleaned and painted the transmission. I might get a chance to do the swap this weekend...