Not so budget 3-link build

[Twisted Minis]

Yes I do. I believe the tire rubs the brake booster when turning.

[silvereagle07]

Nice work!

[andrewmp6]

Damn you do some nice work.Do you own a shop if not you should think about it.

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by Twisted Minis

Yes I do. I believe the tire rubs the brake booster when turning.

Doooh. Ok, that makes sense.

[Twisted Minis]

Ya. I believe it will get worse too, as he requested the track width be narrowed on this truck. He will probably need a smaller booster.

Originally Posted by andrewmp6

Damn you do some nice work.Do you own a shop if not you should think about it.

Lol, yes I do.

[meansting04]

you have great welds. where did you learn? On the job or a trade school? Got any good pointers?

[Twisted Minis]

Just a lot of hands on experience. My uncle showed me back when I was 13, and I have been welding on a daily basis since then. So practice, is about the best advice I can give. I've been doing it for 7 years, and I still have a lot to learn.

[fixit-p]

Thats bad a** you've got mad skills and a great imagination. I have one question just for the sake of my own education. I can see how the wish bone would keep the axle centered and be able to articulate, it looks like you're using a spherical rod end but how effective is that set up in controlling side to side movement say in a daily driver, would you need to triangulate the lower links.

[Twisted Minis]

This truck is a daily driver.

Not sure I understand your question. It will locate the axle laterally better than a 4-link would have in this situation.

[fixit-p]

I guess what I'm trying to say is how is it at controlling sway.

[IvelDesigns]

i think what he's getting at is on your wishbone, the point closest to the cab functions basically like trailer hitch in that it would allow the wishbone to swing left and right.

the bottom bars are going to prevent some of this, but i would think that if the driver were to take a corner at much of a speed, the axle would move left or right.

Do you think you'll have this issue? I'm looking at doing something similar for a build, but i'm leaning toward a triangulated 4-link setup instead of the wishbone due to this. The other option is to put the single point of the wishbone on the rearend and the other two points on a crossmember. then i cannot move.

[Twisted Minis]

Originally Posted by fixit-p

I guess what I'm trying to say is how is it at controlling sway.

That would be the job of the air bags and shocks, to control body roll.

Originally Posted by IvelDesigns

i think what he's getting at is on your wishbone, the point closest to the cab functions basically like trailer hitch in that it would allow the wishbone to swing left and right.

the bottom bars are going to prevent some of this, but i would think that if the driver were to take a corner at much of a speed, the axle would move left or right.

Do you think you'll have this issue? I'm looking at doing something similar for a build, but i'm leaning toward a triangulated 4-link setup instead of the wishbone due to this. The other option is to put the single point of the wishbone on the rearend and the other two points on a crossmember. then i cannot move.

The axle does not move side to side at all. If there where no lower link bars, then you could push the axle towards one side, and one axle tube would move forward, and one back. But since there are lower bars, the axle cannot move forward or backwards. Since it cannot do this, it also cannot move side to side. A wishbone will have more lateral stability than most 4-links. The only lateral movement you will see on this setup will be a small amount from bushing flex and the tire's sidewall deflection. If you push on the axle, the frame moves with it, vice verse. Having a small shop, I often turn these trucks around by simply sliding the back end around. Two people can slide one on the ground by hand, just push or pull depending on which side you are on. The tires break loose and slide before the axles moves laterally.

Fixit, you are close enough to come and see for yourself if you wish. You can come out and push on it yourself, and watch the whole truck move with the axle.

I used a similar setup on my own truck, and it was my daily driver for over 2 years. I like to drive hard and fast. My tires had about 1/8" between them and my fender lip (always tucking tire out back) and they never once rubbed on a hard corner.

A wishbone is a sure fire way to locate your axle. Think of it as an A-arm. Does your wheel move back when you drive? No. It's the same design.

The cool thing about a wishbone, is that they can take a lot of different shapes, and still work just as well.



Does that setup look like it would move side to side to you? It's the same thing, only the rod end is at the axle instead of the frame, and the wishbone is offset instead of symmetrical.

[Walts_restoration]

quick question, are you taking apprentices? This is the sorta thing id love to get into, but gotta finish college first. I love seeing your work, I cant wait till i can get my own shop with enough room to work in, pipe bender and mig/tig setup. Love your work, everytime i click on the link i gotta get my jaw off the floor.

[Twisted Minis]

Umm, I guess so. I already have a 19 year old kid that works for me that I don't pay. It's nice having the extra hands around the shop. Some days we even have 4 people working here. Lol.

[IvelDesigns]

Originally Posted by Walts_restoration

quick question, are you taking apprentices? This is the sorta thing id love to get into, but gotta finish college first. I love seeing your work, I cant wait till i can get my own shop with enough room to work in, pipe bender and mig/tig setup. Love your work, everytime i click on the link i gotta get my jaw off the floor.

yeah, what he said. If you were closer i'd love to come check out your setup and get schooled.

It does make sense what you're saying. When i pictured the setup mentally, it seemed like it would move. After looking at the pictures again, i understand why it won't.

I should also clarify that i'm not picking appart your work. I'm just trying to understand it better due to my upcoming project. I really appreciate all of the pics you took of this build.

Now we just need to get you working on a c-10

[fixit-p]

Ok I get it... I was too focused on the wishbone and totally lost focus of the lower links working in conjunction with the wishbone whereas the lower links resist rotation through compression and extension depending which direction your sliding that puppy. Thanks for taking the time to explain this, have you ever considered builing a bolt on wishbone for us c10 owners with stock trailing arm sus to eliminate the panhard bar.

[Twisted Minis]

Originally Posted by IvelDesigns

yeah, what he said. If you were closer i'd love to come check out your setup and get schooled.

It does make sense what you're saying. When i pictured the setup mentally, it seemed like it would move. After looking at the pictures again, i understand why it won't.

I should also clarify that i'm not picking appart your work. I'm just trying to understand it better due to my upcoming project. I really appreciate all of the pics you took of this build.

Now we just need to get you working on a c-10

I'm not taking offense to it. I am just trying to explain it. I get questions about the 3-link every time I build one.

[IvelDesigns]

so of the 3 setups in this thread, what's your preferred setup in terms of functionality? To me, the first setup (the one you built in this thread) is more for show due to the amount of detail you put into dimple pressing everything, being symmetrical, etc.

That second one is pretty bad ass too, and still gives all the needed support.

Also, what's your general rule for bag placement? I'm planning to use RE7's again, and had thought about putting them over the axle. but after thinking about it more, I think it makes more sense to put them in about the middle of the straight bars. That way with the bag raising 7", I'll actually get more lift.

[Twisted Minis]

Honestly, it depends on a lot of things. I would prefer to always have the single pivot (rod end) on the frame side, because it is more predictable. On a 3-link, that single pivot sets your roll center. If it's on the frame, it's always in the same spot in relation to your truck. Therefore it will handle the same at all ride heights. When it is on the axle side, it moves with the axle, which moves in relation to the truck. So it rolls on a different axis depending on your ride height.

However, I will only build one with the rod end on the frame side if the truck has a two piece drive shaft. Otherwise, the drive shaft comes up too high, and forces you to mount the link higher. In this situation, it becomes difficult (or impossible) to achieve good suspension geometry because your desired link mounting points have been compromised. I see this a lot, and it often results in putting the Instant Center behind the axle, which is less than desirable.

It's funny you mention one being for show, and one more economical, because it is actually reversed. The Toyota in this thread, with the dimples and everything, is a daily driver truck, and everything will be covered by the bed. It just started with a higher budget range than most, as he didn't want basic work.

The truck I just posted a picture of, is ironically a "trailer queen". Doesn't really run or drive, isn't registered, and not at all practical. It won't have a bed floor, so everything will be seen. He wanted a more clean and stealthy look, which is why everything is understated. And also why I used the frame as an air tank. It reduces clutter.

[Twisted Minis]

Doing some plumbing and wiring. First shot shows valves plumbed on the tank. Second is some 9 wire cable, with bullet connectors to attach to the AVS switch box. I had to use two sizes of heat shrink to cover the connectors, but it made it easy for me to match the length of the heat shrink on each one, making it look uniform. Before I started, I slipped a piece of 3/4" heat shrink over the cable, and when I finished I pulled it forward, and shrunk it so about 1/2" of wire is visible so that I can still see the color coding on them. Last picture is a shot of the toggle switch I used to turn give or cut power to the pressure switch. I like this style toggle because it looks very factory, and blends in well with black plastic. Most people won't see it.

[abadsvt]

Originally Posted by Twisted Minis

And also why I used the frame as an air tank. It reduces clutter.

I thought about that a while ago but was worried about it balloning. What thickness of tubing did you use or do you recommend? Have you ever had a piece of tubing ballon? Also are you worried about the moisture the air will produce? Just really curious. Thanks and sorry for all the questions

Josh

[Twisted Minis]

I use .120 wall. It takes a lot of pressure to make it balloon. I've had this one up to 200 PSI and checked the frame with a caliper.

About moisture, I know that is is inevitable. Even with the best water traps, there will be moisture. So it is a concern, but I figure it isn't the most realistic one. I will probably die before it affects the frames structural integrity and causes a problem I would have to fix. That said, I am thankful to live in CA, and probably would not do this in a state that is known for rust issues. Such as the one the truck originally came from, as the original frame is pitted pretty badly.

[p8ntballer1911]

Is a wishbone the same as a 4link, as in it need to be level at ride hight?

[abadsvt]

Originally Posted by Twisted Minis

I use .120 wall. It takes a lot of pressure to make it balloon. I've had this one up to 200 PSI and checked the frame with a caliper.

About moisture, I know that is is inevitable. Even with the best water traps, there will be moisture. So it is a concern, but I figure it isn't the most realistic one. I will probably die before it affects the frames structural integrity and causes a problem I would have to fix. That said, I am thankful to live in CA, and probably would not do this in a state that is known for rust issues. Such as the one the truck originally came from, as the original frame is pitted pretty badly.

Thanks for the insite! Wow 200psi and not even a little buldge! Thats great news. If you have any pics showing where you used the frame or cross braces as air tank I would love to see them. I am not going to do this for my current build but would like to keep that in mind for future builds. I am always doing my homework. Thanks again.

Josh

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by abadsvt

Thanks for the insite! Wow 200psi and not even a little buldge! Thats great news. If you have any pics showing where you used the frame or cross braces as air tank I would love to see them. I am not going to do this for my current build but would like to keep that in mind for future builds. I am always doing my homework. Thanks again.

Josh

Another idea is to build a separate tank that 'mimics' a current crossmember so that it's invisible @ casual glance or just build them to fit up under the body (shaped accordingly).