Best All Around Motor?

[Gus63]

Definately the 400 small block. Smaller, lightweight, And still makes a lot of power.

[kc21130]

My feeling is that if you want an electronic truck, buy a late model all ready to go. To me the fun of old trucks and cars is there is little or no electronics to fool with.

Yes, the electronics make for more driveability, better mileage and more performance if you know what you are doing. They are not as much fun as the old ones is my opinion. If you re building an old vehicle to be a daily driver then fine, but the fun of the old ones is that it's all mechanical. Keep a spare carb, distributor, and starter in the garage and you are ready for anything.

That said if I was going to fool with an electronic conversion I'd probably go with....in a GM truck...a Northstar. Sorry, the driveability and smoothness is better, and there is no truck they don't fit.

Or maybe a Duramax.

The old school Gen 1 engine to me is the best SB Chevy, everything fits, two piece oil seal but fully internal balance except on the 400. Really, most all of them are good except the very earliest (resto only) and the oddballs like the 262.

Put a single Holley four barrel on there, or an Impco propane mixer, and a good electronic distributor and you are good to go.

Is the LS a good engine? Yes. But retrofiting it to the older vehicle is a lot of work and you wind up with an electronic vehicle-it works, or it doesn't, and if the box goes you're done. All a mechanical engine needs is 12 volts for the ignition-you can even run points if you want, I hate them, but even nuclear war won't kill them.

Plus in most states a new engine means conforming to modern emissions, meaning you need to run catalysts, and pass emissions tests. You can beat this by having a "service replacement block" (no VIN-new block or used from a boat, gen set, ag pump, whatever) but I doubt you will find any LS engines with no-VIN blocks, plus in some states they go by "the earliest engine that COULD HAVE USED this style block" which means any LS or LT is going to be an early nineties engine at least for smog purposes. If there is even a possibility you might have to move to California, New York or New Jersey for job purposes you need to factor that in. You could convert to propane, but even propane requires closed loop and catalysts now in California after mid-90s.

[cableguy0]

Why would you want a pos northstar? they have way too many serious problems. They sucked in the caddys. When they are running right they are great but theres just way too many issues plus the expense of parts etc. The best engine right now is the ls series when comparing all around factors.The emissions argument doesnt really work. If anyone is putting that engine into a smog exempt truck changing the engine isnt going to cause you to need smog testing. Whos gonna tell on ya? I will say though if your going for simple and cheap its really hard to beat a sbc. Its says a lot that an engine developed almost 60 years ago is still in use and with very few changes from original design.

[kc21130]

Originally Posted by cableguy0

Why would you want a pos northstar? they have way too many serious problems. They sucked in the caddys. When they are running right they are great but theres just way too many issues plus the expense of parts etc. The best engine right now is the ls series when comparing all around factors.The emissions argument doesnt really work. If anyone is putting that engine into a smog exempt truck changing the engine isnt going to cause you to need smog testing. Whos gonna tell on ya? I will say though if your going for simple and cheap its really hard to beat a sbc. Its says a lot that an engine developed almost 60 years ago is still in use and with very few changes from original design.

My daily driver is a 2004 Seville. I bought it at an estate sale in 2008 on a whim and haven't done a single thing besides change oil and front brake pads in fifty thousand miles. It's the best running car I have ever had. Yes, it burns oil, a little. I got it for nothing, practically, because it needs paint-the roof and trunk are nasty and there is peeling on the hood. When something major goes I'll probably dump it, because the resale is lousy, but I'm going to miss it bigtime.

One thing GM always did really well was good heating and A/C. The heat is great, and that makes me very happy these last couple of weeks.

[Clyde65]

With my truck, it was just an old farm truck that came with nothin, it never will be a collectors item or a sought after truck, so knowing that and the facts of motor/trans VERY tired and 8-9MPG is AWFUL, I chose to go the ls route. I am not saying it is right for everyone, I am just saying if you at least look into it, it really isnt any more difficult to install than a SBC, it is just that most of us that have these old vehicles have done the sbc repair/replace before and generally know all the ins and outs of that.

If time was on my side...I would do it again in a heartbeat. I would never do the ls conversion on an all original, low mileage, collector type truck, I would go with a rebuild only on those.

Ultimately it comes down to what YOU want on YOUR truck, I wish you good luck in whatever you decide is the best option for you.

[boostat4500]

kc21130: The way you describe your Seville makes it sound like every LSx vehicle I've ever heard of. I put a blower on a 100k 98' Trans AM and never had a single issue, leaks, burning oil, nothing. In my 01' TA I built a blown 408 putting 650hp to the ground on 91 octane. Got 21 mpg on the freeway and I put 20k miles on it in one year, again, without a single issue. Will the Northstar do that? These motors are bullet proof that don't leak! I've pulled apart 100k+ mile motors and they have no measurable cylinder wear.
As far as the electronics go, the only power needed to run an LSx is 2 wires to the PCM, so we'll call that a tie with your gen. 1.
I've owned many Carbed vehicles and they are the only ones that ever left me stranded. They don't give any warning before something goes out. A new motor will warn you ahead of time of a problem.
Have you buy chance done the swap or are you just commenting based solely on what other people, who also haven't actually done the swap, have said? Just curious....

[kc21130]

Originally Posted by boostat4500

Have you buy chance done the swap or are you just commenting based solely on what other people, who also haven't actually done the swap, have said? Just curious....

I'm going by what can happen with ANY electronic engine, gas or diesel. If the box goes you are out of commission. Mechanical engines usually are field repairable, they will lose ignition from points or electronic box failure, carbs crap out, fuel pump craps out, whatever.

I used to have a supposedly unreliable Land Rover. I put an American fuel pump in instead of the SU and carried a spare pump, carb, distributor, plug wires and plugs. Sooner or later I figured it would die out there in the desert and I'd have them. Never did. I sold the Rover and bought a modern Jeep Wrangler with EFI inline 6. In two years I got field stranded twice. Once I walked out to a Starvin' Marvin and the second time the Border Patrol rescued me. Both electronic failures. I was a Cali resident then so de-electronifying was a non option. I bought a much older Jeep with a carbed 258 and carried spares and never needed them. (Jeeps are great for rockcrawling and mudding. Land Rovers are radically superior for getting in and out of bad places.)

I'm happy with my electronic Caddy but I don't drive in places where failure would put me in a bad way for very long. Cell phones and legal concealed carry make me less nervous in the rare event I visit bad urban areas, and Cadillacs aren't much good off road so desert strandings are a non issue. If it quits I just call AAA.

The only difference between your homebrew electronic engine truck and my Caddy is if it does crap out in the field, if I can't fix it I can hand some shop the keys and get a motel room. If a DIY swap has problems you're going to probably have to fix it yourself no matter how cold, hot or rainy it is, probably outside. No one else will probably want to touch it. Nor, around here will they let you do it under their roof. I'm too old to be crawling under cars outside in the winter and damn sure not without jackstands and chocks.

Don't take this as a putdown, I think it's great guys do this stuff. But I like simple.

A lot of the low buck road race guys are into MegaSquirt, a DIY EFI system. It looks like fun, but not for me.

[kc21130]

Originally Posted by boostat4500

Have you buy chance done the swap or are you just commenting based solely on what other people, who also haven't actually done the swap, have said? Just curious....

I'm going by what can happen with ANY electronic engine, gas or diesel. If the box goes you are out of commission. Mechanical engines usually are field repairable, they will lose ignition from points or electronic box failure, carbs crap out, fuel pump craps out, whatever.

I used to have a supposedly unreliable Land Rover. I put an American fuel pump in instead of the SU and carried a spare pump, carb, distributor, plug wires and plugs. Sooner or later I figured it would die out there in the desert and I'd have them. Never did. I sold the Rover and bought a modern Jeep Wrangler with EFI inline 6. In two years I got field stranded twice. Once I walked out to a Starvin' Marvin and the second time the Border Patrol rescued me. Both electronic failures. I was a Cali resident then so de-electronifying was a non option. I bought a much older Jeep with a carbed 258 and carried spares and never needed them. (Jeeps are great for rockcrawling and mudding. Land Rovers are radically superior for getting in and out of bad places.)

I'm happy with my electronic Caddy but I don't drive in places where failure would put me in a bad way for very long. Cell phones and legal concealed carry make me less nervous in the rare event I visit bad urban areas, and Cadillacs aren't much good off road so desert strandings are a non issue. If it quits I just call AAA.

The only difference between your homebrew electronic engine truck and my Caddy is if it does crap out in the field, if I can't fix it I can hand some shop the keys and get a motel room. If a DIY swap has problems you're going to probably have to fix it yourself no matter how cold, hot or rainy it is, probably outside. No one else will probably want to touch it. Nor, around here will they let you do it under their roof. I'm too old to be crawling under cars outside in the winter and damn sure not without jackstands and chocks.

Don't take this as a putdown, I think it's great guys do this stuff. But I like simple.

A lot of the low buck road race guys are into MegaSquirt, a DIY EFI system. It looks like fun, but not for me.

[Old Yeller 1970]

The best all around motor? That's a matter of personal preference. I would never put a different engine in Old Yeller (see sig) besides a 350. Although it's been rebuilt, it's the original 4 bolt high nickel, high tin block. It was rebuilt, .030" over, by the PO at 100K. I drove it another 145K and the cylinder walls only needed to be honed to .040" over to rebuild it. That's a pretty good engine, IMO. No more than I drive it now it will last until the end of the petroleum age.

I have a 5.7L '94 Suburban. It's fast approaching 250K mi and the engine, heads, intake, fuel injection system, have never been touched. That's a darn good engine.

My father has a 2000 Chevy truck with a 6.0L. His is also about to turn 250k mi and he has never worked on the engine either.

That's my experience. Any of them are good.

[C-10 simplex]

UPDATE:

The current toyota situation is exactly one the reasons why i have, without regret, chosen to stay with carburetion and conventional distributor. (and still get decent mpg).

The toyota engineers aren't even sure what the problem is (or maybe they're not telling) Either way, toymoco screwed up bigtime.

a)Screw CAFE standards, what really should be outlawed are: drive-by-wire,wireless systems that control ANY driving function.

b) Other manufacturers are not immune to this problem either; My parents' deville has unintended acceleration also----small pulsing at low speeds. Not a major issue--the brakes can easily overcome this, but unintended acceleration nontheless. The point i'm trying to make is i don't feel electronics and drive-by-wire on cars is still not a good thing yet.


c) i've NEVER had a problem with a cable or linkage operated throttle system. Why do people always want to make things more complex than nessesary?

[Ticker]

Happens to be an area I know something about

Given the push for higher fuel economy, lower emissions, more HP and lower manufacturing costs all manufacturers are forced to build more complex platforms that require more integration between products provided by a variety of vendors. It's basically software integration at this point like any computer system.

While I agree that 'drive by wire" is just plain scary, there's no easy way around that general direction. If you've flown an aircraft made in the last 5 years it was 'fly by wire' in some if not all primary flight controls.

But these same types of controls have produced amazing cars - and engines like the LS series. My Z06 makes 405 HP but delivers a smooth 29MPG on the highway. Go figure

You can get a cable-operated throttle body for the LS - still makes more sense than a carb.

[gchemist]

If you want plug and play, crate and affordable, then a 350 Ram Jet is the best.

[C-10 simplex]

Ramjet, while it looks good on paper, doesn't sound plug and play to me:

4 years, numerous hassles with dealers/engineers etc. and i'm still not sure if problem solved:
http://www.carols62.com/ramjet/cruise_control.html


5 months, numerous hassles with dealer/engineers etc./ hassles in general and problem still not solved:
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...l/ramjet/tp/1/

i did consider ramjet, but things like these steered me away from it.

i think you'll find that these situations are the norm and not atypical; When there's a problem with EFI, you'll find very long forum posts with pages and pages spanning over a time period of many months---in some cases years! And the problems still don't get solved. You generally don't find that with carb/distributor problems---a few days or a week and the problem is solved.

Again, i am not anti-efi. And, in fact i acknowledge that FI is superior to carb systems---i can't argue against that. But, these system are still not plug and play yet. The factory systems are wonderful(i'm even thinking of looking for a TBI truck)-----until something goes wrong.

Now, one thing that does look good is the megasquirt thing; This would allow the user to fully understand her/his system and more importantly accurately and quickly diagnoise any problems. But i don't have time to learn all that.