C-Notch? Im more confused now than before!

[GreyHoundSteve]

Okay, my project got ahead of me and now my frame is sitting at the painters and he needs to know if its ready to spray or if i was going to notch it first. Originally i planned on bagging the rear and using coils in the front. I like the look of a 4.5/ 6 drop but i still want my truck to be able to carry a load so bags seemed like the best way to go. What i am trying to figure out is if i need a C-Notch or not?

I was convinced that i did and so i was hunting for one when i spoke with someone from ECE and he told me that the c-notch was pointless because it only allows an extra inch of clearance and in his opinion its not worth the trouble.

Is this true? When is a c-notch needed? Im not trying to lay frame here i just want a nice slammed look and to keep my truck functional. It will be a daily driver and so i didnt want to add a bunch of stuff that makes the vehicle impractical to drive but i'd like the stance to look slammed when its not loaded. How low can i drop the rear without needing a c-notch?

I know tx firefighter said he has never had any problems with his 6" drop springs bottoming out but the guy from ece told me he would NEVER load his truck with anything more than a 4" drop in the rear. Whats the real deal here? If i want to drop my bags to 7-8" below stock height am i going to bottom out under normal driving condidtions? If i did c-notch it would i be fine or would it not make much difference? Are c-notches just intended for people who want to lay their truck out parked or do actually help in a practical manner when driving?

I dont want to spend $200 and cut my frame if there is no other reason for a c-notch other than to get lower when parked, will someone with knowledge of this PLEASE HELP. The painter is waiting and i need to make a decision on this FAST.

Thanks in advance.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by GreyHoundSteve

I was convinced that i did and so i was hunting for one when i spoke with someone from ECE and he told me that the c-notch was pointless because it only allows an extra inch of clearance and in his opinion its not worth the trouble.

Someone at ECE is incorrect. The "standard" bolt-in C-notch for the 67-72 provides about 3" of additional clearance.

[SCOTI]

XXL Someone at ECE is incorrect. The "standard" bolt-in C-notch for the 67-72 provides about 3" of additional clearanc

It provides 3" more clearance but the rear end housing will hit the bed floor so you'll only get an extra 2" (+/-).

DO THE C-NOTCH. It's better to have it & not need it than to need it & not have it. Is the frame going to be custom painted or just chassis black? You can still put a notch in after paint.... it will just require a little more effort to not mess the fresh paint up. But, you'll want a way to be able to paint the c-notch to match the rest of the frame after it's all installed.

If you want some help, I'm in the area & don't mind. You need to come over & see everything first hand. I have no intention of 'laying out', but the notch is in mine so I won't bottom out because I drive around low ALL THE TIME, loaded or not.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

It provides 3" more clearance but the rear end housing will hit the bed floor so you'll only get an extra 2" (+/-).

For the wood floor. I believe (anyone got a tape measure???) that the steel floor is actually a full inch higher than the bottom of the wood.

[N2TRUX]

Notch it! No matter what the guys from ECE said, you should notch it. Even if it does give you only one more inch of travel (which is bunk) that extra inch or two makes a big difference when you need it.

Besides, right now your thinking all you want is a slight drop. That will soon change. I have never, ever heard any one say "I wish I hadn't lowered my truck so much". I have heard many, many times someone say "I wish I had gone ahead and lowered it some more"..

[LowSeventy]

I have had the Early Classic 3.5/6 drop on my 70 for several years now, and have no problems carrying a reasonable amount of weight in the bed. I asked Stan at ECE if I should c-notch it and he showed me why you will not get the 3" claimed by the c-notch maker. My cousin and I took the rear springs all the way out and rested the frame on the axle tubes, which left 3/4" between the top of my rear end and the bottom of my wood floor. There was also only about a 1 1/4" before my rear end hit the shock crossmember. I couldn't tell for sure, but it looked like the driveshaft would hit the top of the center crossmember. I would imagine that the c-nothes work fine if you cut a hole in the bedfloor and used that new ECE center crossmember, but why bother?

[XXL]

Originally Posted by LowSeventy

I couldn't tell for sure, but it looked like the driveshaft would hit the top of the center crossmember.

I have a 1-piece driveshaft and have made no modifications to the center crossmember (the one the trailing arms mount to). I did cut a small crescent shape out of the backside of the shock mount crossmember, but the OP isn't talking about going this low...

[SCOTI]

I agree w/XXL. My rear end sits just inside the framerail so the c-notch was needed.

[GreyHoundSteve]

Scoti, i do need to come out and see your truck to get a better feel for what it all looks like when done right. The frame will be black so i guess it wouldnt be a problem painting the notch later but since i already have the bed off and the springs out i thought it might be a good time to notch it but my truck is a wood bed so it might be pointless after all.

I dont want anymore delays so i guess i'll have him go ahead and spray the frame since the bed will be off it awhile and it shouldnt be hard to blend in the c-notch later if i decide its needed.

Im still not 100% sold on bags yet. For every person that says there great there seems to be two more people who have had problems with them. I have read EVERY POST on this board pertaining to bagged trucks and i still am unsure if thats the smart way to go for what i want to achieve.

Scoti, i would love to come take a look at your truck and get some first hand knowledge of how everything works. Let me know when your free and i'd love to drive out and have a look.

Thanks for everyones replys.

[SCOTI]

I've been in your shoes trying to make that decision. I went ahead & did the bags because I wanted it low & be able to tow.

For the record, I've only had 1 type of problem w/my bags since early 2001. I was filling my system manually after I first installed it. I kept bending the schrader valves when I tried filling the system in the dark (early morning am). I stepped up & got a comp/3gal tank & haven't had 1 prob since.

[GreyHoundSteve]

I was convinced before i spoke to that guy at ece. After that conversation i started rethinking if bags were for me. I', of the same mindset as you Scoti, i want to keep it low but be able to tow. I had seen a prevous member ask about airpresure and alighment issues and baggers replied by telling him that it was a nonissue but after speaking with ece the guy told me that is was infact a BIG issue and i plan on running 20" tires and can NOT afford to be wearing through them because my alighment is never right. My truck will be a daily driver and i dont want to have to worry about daily suspension issues if that is a result of having bags. I will rarely be adjusting ride height but the ability to do so is what first attracted me to bags. After all, this is a truck and while sitting 3" off the ground looks cool parked it isnt practical for a daily driver. I think i really just need to see them first hand and see how they really work.

Is leakage much of a problem? What i mean is that if i set them at my desired ride height how long can i expect my truck to stay that way? If they leak as bad as tires then spings might be a smarter choice for me.

I went overboard with a suspension once and completely ruined the drivability of a great car and i dont want to make that mistake again. It almost seems like the more money and more advanced a suspension you get the more problems you can expect from it. What are the realistic problems with bags?

[Inthuwind]

Airbags provide a very smoothe ride (like a Caddy) and you can put in bump stops to eliminate the worry of the bags dropping and not being able to drive off if they do. Go with the C-Notch and bags. You will be very satisfied.

[SCOTI]

GreyHoundSteve .... i want to keep it low but be able to tow. I had seen a prevous member ask about airpresure and alighment issues and baggers replied by telling him that it was a nonissue but after speaking with ece the guy told me that is was infact a BIG issue and i plan on running 20" tires and can NOT afford to be wearing through them because my alighment is never right.

If you align it @ 80psi of air, as long as you keep it @ 80psi your truck won't wear tires any faster than any other stock truck. If the alignment is what is causing the hesitation, do spindles & trim the front springs for now.... do bags later on.

Is leakage much of a problem? What i mean is that if i set them at my desired ride height how long can i expect my truck to stay that way? If they leak as bad as tires then spings might be a smarter choice for me.

I can't speak for others, but I drove mine daily for over a year manually filling the system w/schrader valves. The only time I had to mess w/the system was when I put more air in it to tow my trailer. If 2 months went by & I didn't load the truck, I didn't have to mess w/air psi. Hell.... it's been sitting idle since July & I haven't messed w/the air & it still hasn't 'leaked'. Buuuut, one of my tires is getting low .

....It almost seems like the more money and more advanced a suspension you get the more problems you can expect from it.

I agree, keep it simple. If your not really going to use your truck as a tow rig, use the drop coils. If you own a trailer & know you have to be able to pull it, a manual fill rear bag system can get you started for minimal $$ outlay. Once you start towing something daily you can purchase a comp, airtank, & controller/gauges & expand the versatility of the system.

What are the realistic problems with bags?

The airlines can leak if not cut/attatched properly. Airlines can split/break from excessive heat or sharp objects. If you utilize solenoids, they can stick causing the vehicle to not want to raise/lower. Bags are made of rubber.... extreme heat, sharp objects, or anything that is allowed to contact(rub) the bag, can cause failure.

If it's not raining tomorrow, I should be home most of the day (but I am on call @ work so I could have to go on short notice). If your not busy & want to take a short road trip . . .....

[GreyHoundSteve]

today is my wives mothers b-day and we are hosting the party but if your not incredibly busy next week Friday after Thanksgiving would be GREAT.

[N2TRUX]

GreyHoundSteve you need to quit talking to the guy at ECE. He is doing more damage than good.

If you have actually read every post on this forum about air ride systems, then you should know that the key to having a reliable air system is to have a well engineered system.

If you need proof, look at all the 18 wheelers on the road. Most of them use some type of air spring. Look at the larger motor homes and commercial buses. They all use air springs. Consider how many thousands of miles they run on thse systems. They are reliable, because they were correctly engineered.

The biggest cause of failure with an air ride system is improperly installed components. If you research how to install it properly to prevent failurer, you can make a much more educated decision on whats best for you....