HELP. front flashers constantly on

[dabmb01]

hi, new to forum (well the 60-66 part, had a 67.) i didnt have brake lights, well they only worked when the turn signal was on, so after hours and hours of tracing wires and doing tests i found that the turn signal switch was bad. i replaced that and now my brake lights work and turn signals work. everything works, but the *fun* part now is that my front flashers are constantly flashing but my rear ones arent, if i use my turn signal it cancels the flashing and properly does whichever side turn signal i use, but wen i turn the turn signal off my front flashers kick on and again its only the front not the back. please, if i didnt have short hair id pull it out.

help me please lol. its costing alot in cigarettes to do this project, stress level is killing me. (figured id throw in humor instead of frustration ha)

[raycow]

Well, in the most general terms, your problem is caused by either a bad TS switch or by bad wiring, but I suspect you knew that already. What you are really asking for now is specific troubleshooting suggestions, right?

Before we get to that, a little background information would be helpful.

First, what year truck do you have? Does it have a factory or aftermarket wiring harness? Were any additions or modifications made to the wiring by you or a PO?

Are you using the factory tail light and parking light housings? Do your parking lights and tail lights work normally? Do you have hazard warning flashers?

Your previous problem with the brake lights - did you inherit it when you bought the truck, or did it begin after you did some kind of work on it? This could include work of any kind, not necessarily electrical. When you replaced the TS switch, did you do any other work on the wiring or anything else?

Was your new TS switch a direct replacement? That is, did it have the same number and color of wires as the old one? If not, how did you determine what to connect where? Did you have any wires left over?

Sorry about all the questions, but I can't see what you have, so you need to be the eyes for this adventure.

Ray

[dabmb01]

i cant believe i posted this and didnt put a year, sorry about that. its a 1964 c20 3/4 ton 2wd lwb. i bought the truck with the problem, and yes the turn signal switch was a direct replacement switch. i didnt modify any wires at all, just tested a bunch of connections and traced wires to make sure they werent broke. as of right now, i have turn signals, brakes lights and the hazards work. the problem is this:

from the time i turn the truck on to the time i shut it off, my hazards flash. but not the back, only the fronts flash. but if i use the turn signal the flashers stop and the appropriate turn signal flashes. when i cut the turn signal off, the hazards (or flashers if i type that), come back on, but again, only in the front not back. if i turn the flashers on then the back come on properly.

for a temporary fix i disconnected the firewall plug for the front turn signals and hazards. i understand that a safety issue but hey atleast my back turnsignals still work. with the front turn signals and flashers disconnected, my dash still shows that the hazards are still flashing. so i know its not a wiring issue from the firewall to hood. i cant understand this problem. i dont understand this at all. if im not being clear about anything let me know, this is such a confusing thing that im just blabbing things out so if you want more specific info please just let me know.

[dabmb01]

also the wiring harness in the truck is to the best of my knowledge original. or atleast it looks it. ha.

and also, im using the factory housing for the rear lights.

[raycow]

That's a good start. You told me a lot.

I don't believe factory hazards were very common in 64. Most likely, yours are dealer installed or aftermarket. Do you have the kind of hazard switch that has a red knob with a bulb inside it?

Let's assume your TS switch is good for the moment. Could I talk you into into disconnecting the wires from the hazard switch? If they are permanently connected, can you trace the wires from the switch and disconnect them from the main harness?

Ray

[dabmb01]

yes the hazard switch is the one with the red knob and light inside of it.. ??? is that bad?? its hard wired inside the switch and yes i will 100% do that but what is that going to tell me? id like to continue to have hazards, just correctly working haha.

[raycow]

No, I don't know that the hazard switch is bad. I'm just trying to eliminate it as a possible suspect. If the wires are permananently connected at the switch end, disconnect them at their other end.

Before you disconnect the switch, remove the hazard flasher from its socket and turn on the ignition. I want to find out which flasher the lights are running on when you have the problem.

Ray

[raycow]

Ok, I made an assumption about something I didn't specifically ask you, so I will ask you now. Do your hazard warning lights use the same bulbs as your turn signals?

Ray

[dabmb01]

yes, the flashers are the same bulbs as my turn signals, and if i take the hazards flasher out of the back of the hazard switch, they still flash, so im guessing there catching flash from the one in my fuse panel. this is so confusing, im the kind of guy that will attempt anything, if you honestly think cutting the switch out of the harness will give us some kind of answer ill walk outside right now with a pair of dikes and snip all the wires. ha. ill make sure i leave enough wire to rewire it if its not bad.

[dabmb01]

another question, non related, why is my parking brake mounted to the back of my transmission and not the cable to rearend kind. im not really liking the whole locking up the tranny idea, i like locking the tires. i cant find a new assembly to replace the parking brake pads or anything in my lmc book. any ideas on that also?

[raycow]

Originally Posted by dabmb01

if you honestly think cutting the switch out of the harness will give us some kind of answer ill walk outside right now with a pair of dikes and snip all the wires. ha. ill make sure i leave enough wire to rewire it if its not bad.

Don't go cutting any wires just yet. I didn't realize that the leads from the hazard switch couldn't be unplugged at some point. You have already shown that the power isn't coming through the hazard switch by removing the flasher, so let's leave the switch alone for the time being.

The next step may be a little more difficult. I can't ignore the TS switch as a possible culprit even though it is new. Actually I am trying to get everything else out of the way before asking you to dig into the main harness.

Do you have some kind of continuity tester and are you able to identify the individual leads on the TS switch column connnector? If yes, I need you to make some tests on the switch.

Remove the TS flasher from its socket and put the TS switch in the center position. Unplug the column connector and check for continuity between each of the front lamp leads and the flasher lead. Do this on the switch half of the connector, not the harness half.

Ray

[raycow]

Originally Posted by dabmb01

why is my parking brake mounted to the back of my transmission and not the cable to rearend kind. im not really liking the whole locking up the tranny idea, i like locking the tires. i cant find a new assembly to replace the parking brake pads or anything in my lmc book. any ideas on that also?

Transmission-mounted parking brakes are almost universal on the bigger trucks, although I am surprised to hear you have one on a 3/4 ton. I practically grew up with them because I had quite a few Mopars in my early years and Mopar used them on everything (cars as well as trucks) until the early 60s. From the safety standpoint, I kind of like the idea of having a second braking system completely independent of the regular service brakes.

If your only problem is that the brake is too worn to hold, there are shops which can rivet on new linings. Look for a place that does heavy truck repair. Does your brake have internal shoes or does it have an external band which wraps around the outside of the drum?

If you just plain don't like the transmission brake, I think you could change to the conventional rear axle parking brake without too much difficulty. You would need to find cables, cable brackets and backing plates from another truck with the same wheelbase and rear axle as yours. Assuming you have an H052 rear, I am pretty sure I have seen an H052 before with parking brakes. In the worst case situation you might need to swap the complete rear end, so you would have to decide if you want to go to that much work. In the mean time, it couldn't hurt to be looking at other 3/4 ton trucks in salvage yards. I believe the H052 was used until 1972.

Ray

[dabmb01]

its looks to me that its an external band style. i dont really mind not having the parking brake working, but its just if i ever went to sell it for a swb 60s truck id like to not have to drop the price because of it not working. i didnt think about going the route of a heavy truck repair shop doing *press* ins. thats a great idea i appreciate that.



now to the other post. if i disconnect the hazard switch will that stop my front end problem, or if the ts switch is bad will they still flash?

[raycow]

Originally Posted by dabmb01

if i disconnect the hazard switch will that stop my front end problem, or if the ts switch is bad will they still flash?

If your TS switch is bad, disconnecting the hazard switch won't help any. The only reason I asked you to do the hazard switch first is that I thought it would be easier than troubleshooting the TS switch. I am just trying to get the easy stuff out of the way before going on to the more difficult ones. If the hazard switch doesn't unplug, leave it alone until you find out what the TS switch is doing.

Ray

[dabmb01]

sorry for a possible stupid question, but by continuity do you mean volts? sorry i have a voltmeter and i guess things are just worded differently depending on who you hangout with. ha. and yea i was just pointing out that im not afraid to cut wires and ill darn near do anything to figure this out, i keep getting dirty looks without front turn signals because people dont thinking im turning that are waiting for me to pass by ha. its kind of humorous i guess but i hate when people do that crap to me so i know how they feel.

[raycow]

Originally Posted by dabmb01

by continuity do you mean volts? sorry i have a voltmeter and i guess things are just worded differently depending on who you hangout with.

If you have a multimeter, set it for ohms and use the lowest scale. If your meter reads only volts and nothing else, get the cheapest continuity tester you can find, like a self-powered test light, that is, with its own battery.

Ray

[dabmb01]

actually right beofre i saw your post i was at walmart, they have one for the 20 bucks. ill get it later today or 2morrow and ill let you no ever ohm reading on the truck.

[dabmb01]

bought a meter, cant figure it out, i put it on the wires and it jumps all around and doesnt stay constant. i cut the wires from the hazard switch and lost all turn signal power, gained it back witht eh purple wire but even with every other wire on the hazard switch cut off except the purple one my front lights still flash. i cant do this anymore. truck runs great but i cant believe this is happening ive tried so much stuff and spent so many hours on just tracing wires, every wire is correct from what my manual is saying and this is still happening.

[raycow]

Ok, put the turn signal switch in the center position and turn on the ignition switch or whatever is necessary to make the front lamps flash. Now what happens when you unplug the flasher (the small round can with two or three flat blade terminals)?

Ray

[fuzzinator]

I had the exact same problem after I replaced my turn signal switch. I pulled the wheel back off and the contacts in the switch were were bent wrong and making contact sending power to just the rear signals lamps. I used a small screw driver and moved the contacts apart and everything worked as it should. I pulled the switch and returned it for a new one and every thing was fine.

Just a idea to check.

[raycow]

That's what I am thinking too, but I was trying to eliminate all the other possibilities before putting the blame on the switch. Nobody wants to hear that a switch they just installed has got problems.

Ray

[dabmb01]

i try so hard with this truck i just give up. the parts unreturnable. 130 bucks and they wont return it. so im not able to get another one. ill check on pulling the flasher out of the fuse panel because when i pull the flasher out of the hazard switch it stays on and doesnt do anything. be ready for my next post. how to demolish a crappy truck with a baseball bats. thats about all im down to, cant even try to sell it with this problem.

[raycow]

Originally Posted by dabmb01

ill check on pulling the flasher out of the fuse panel because when i pull the flasher out of the hazard switch it stays on and doesnt do anything.

No need to do this. You just answered the next question I was going to ask.
If you pulled the hazard flasher, the lamps have to be running on the turn signal flasher.

Moving on: Do your parking lights work normally? If yes, does it make a difference in the flashing if the parking lights are turned on or not?

Ray

[dabmb01]

turning the parking lights on and off while the front turn signals are on doesnt change anything. doesnt change when the front is flashing without the turn signals off either. i know your running out of ideas lol.

[raycow]

I know you said that turning on the parking lights doesn't affect the turn signals, but do the parking lights actually work? That is, can you see if they are lit?

Ok that gets us down to the last item before we dig into the TS switch. You mentioned a purple wire. If I understood you correctly, one end is connected to the hazard switch. If you cut that wire your regular turn signals don't work. Am I correct so far? If yes, what is the other end of the purple wire connected to?

The reason I am asking is, if the hazard switch is wired correctly, you should be able to disconnect all of its wires without affecting the turn signals.

Btw, it gets a lot harder after this, because I am going to ask you to identify the wires connected to the TS switch and then to check continuity across selected wire pairs. But first, I need to get this purple wire out of the way, because I don't think it should behave as it does.

In the meantime, I shall be looking for a wiring diagram for a 64 truck, because you are going to need the wire colors in order to run the continuity tests.


Ray