Boxing a 47-53 1/2-Tips, Parts

[duwem]

I bought a second nice frame to do all my suspension/frame (work C4 vette front and rear, box, trans crossmember, engine mounts etc) on while I drive my truck
I want to box the frame. Thinking Progressive Automotive's full length boxing plates.

http://www.progressiveautomotive.com/Boxing.htm

1947-55 (1st Series) truck (1/2 ton, Short bed type)

Full Length ....FL-CTE......$269.00


Would I cut everything off and box front to back then weld in the crossmembers I still need(radiator mount and one rear one) I would keep temporarly supports in to keep everything straight?

Would the frame be much stiffer with boxing plates, or should I consider just building one out of rectangular tubing? Want the truck to handle well in corners and a stiff frame is a component of handling. I like the idea of using the stock frame since all the dimensions/mounts etc are already in place.

Also thinking of using progressive's trans crossmember. Looks like it would help stiffen up that middle part of the frame:

http://www.progressiveautomotive.com/xhmember.htm

1947-55 (1st Series) truck (1/2 ton, Short bed type)

Tubular Style....XT-CTE......$369.00


The vette front and rear crossmembers I plan to use would come from Flat Out Engineering:

http://www.flatout-engineering.com/products.html


Want to keep the master cylinder down on the frame.

How does this sound? Would you do this or recommend other parts/methods/ideas? Any trick ideas for running wires, brake/fue lines, etc through boxed frames?

[semn49]

I would keep the stock frame, don't build one, if it's in good shape. Buy the boxing plates and use them all or, if you don't want to remove all the crossmembers and hangers, section the plates? I would remove one crossmember at a time if you are going to do it that way. and probably even tack a support in on top of frame in that area to keep it located.

If all that tube in the picture is what comes with the trans cross member then I would say that will definately stiff it up!

Good luck and post pics please!

[Gman7]

Take a look at my album, I used Progressive Parts:
http://s1137.photobucket.com/albums/...Chevy%20truck/

[Coronas56]

You can make your own, not that hard. Made my own Boxing plates, and cross member.............I used flat outs front cross member, and made my own rear brackets for my vette rear end.

[oldman3]

I made mind from flat stock, and cut to the different sizes I needed, and then welded in place. I left key spots open for getting to running board brackets, etc.. Also lets you run lines inside the frame. Attached are a few pics showing what I did. You could buy the plates and cut to fit the way you want.

[oldman3]

Sorry forget the pics, here they are.

[duwem]

I figure I will just buy the plates. Could use the money towards a plamsa cutter I suppose but thats only a small chunk of the price plus need to buy the steel.

Here is the frame I'm starting with:
(Yes the white stuff is snow, we just got 3 inches last Sunday and the sun is slowly melting it.)

I drilled out the rivets for the running board mounts on the one side, will do the other. That way the frame will be easier to move around, and 2 of the mounts were twisted/bent. Figure I will weld nuts on the inside of the fame and just bolt them on. That way I can get all the rust off as well.

[Dan Bowles]

Nice. Neighbor has a junk Vette...maybe a good build to watch!

[duwem]

Come on guys, I know there are more of you with boxed frames on here.

Let me know the tips/tricks etc.

[pgf545]

Check out my build thread. I used the Progressive boxing plates. There were very easy to use....I did have one area that needed a little work but I am not sure that it wasn't something with my frame. I saw yesterday that Swartz Performance is designing a frame also. He does a lot of autocross type frames. I didn't see it on his web site but he posted some pictures on his Facebook.

Here is his web site and maybe he will post some pictures there later.
http://www.schwartzperformance.com/

Bernie

[duwem]

Originally Posted by pgf545

Check out my build thread. I used the Progressive boxing plates. There were very easy to use....I did have one area that needed a little work but I am not sure that it wasn't something with my frame. I saw yesterday that Swartz Performance is designing a frame also. He does a lot of autocross type frames. I didn't see it on his web site but he posted some pictures on his Facebook.

Here is his web site and maybe he will post some pictures there later.
http://www.schwartzperformance.com/

Bernie

Thanks! good to see someone else used these same parts. Trucks looking great!

Can you post pictures of the frame here? Mabye save them from facebook then upload in this forum?

Starting to wonder if an under dash master wouldnt be the way to go. With the frame mounted master, and progressives x member, I dont know where you would route the exhaust on the drivers side.

Althought if I put in a 4.2L I will only have to run it on the passenger side since its an inline 6.

[pgf545]

Good luck with your build and if I can be of any assistance let me know. I will send Swartz a message and see if he is ok with me posting his pictures from Facebook. Maybe he will join here and post them himself

Bernie

[Tatt2d51]

I'm also to the point of boxing the rear. Question on this as I'm looking at it-

Where the rear axle sits and the frame makes its rise, the frame lip is wider on the bottom than the top. Do you keep the plate vertical to match the outside frame or angle it out to the edge of the extended lip?

Bernie - I read your build ( took a couple of sittings, Nice) and I think this is what you ran into when the vendor made comments on your post. Right?

[duwem]

I was just going to post the same question!

My guess is to shorten up the fatter lip since the rest of the frame is the narrow width.

[jps03]

What size and type of hardware gets used on a boxing setup. I have been looking at cagenuts, weld nuts, and mag drilling access holes. Any thoughts.

[duwem]

I would think similar to what is there, but would depend on what your holding on.

In my case I plan to have the running board mounts removble. Thinking something about the same size at the steel rivets that were there. Would use grade 8 hardware.

Lots of options for weld nuts:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#weld-nuts/=btzg91

I like this style:

Weld Nuts with Projections
Projections add surface area so your weld results in a strong bond. Position nuts over pierced or drilled holes; each has a pilot that guides it into position and prevents welding spatter from getting into threads.

Square nuts have four projections for a strong weld on flat surfaces.

Hex nuts have three projections that ensure a reliable weld, even on surfaces that aren't perfectly flat.


Cheap too, 10 bucks for a bag of 50 of the 3/8"

[michaelnolimit]

We don't recommend boxing in the entire rail for a couple reasons. First the rail doesn't flex that much, Its the stuff between the rails that allows the rails to flex. Second boxing the rails pushes all of your brake and fuel lines closer to your exhaust. Heat does not help fuel or brake systems. An x in the center of the chassis will reduce flex more than boxing the rails. We usually put an x under the cab and two pieces of tubing that create a triangle out back just in front of the rear suspension. A triangle cannot change shape unless one side is shortened or all three angles change. A square or rectangle can easily change shape without shortening one side, all you have to do is change the angles in the corners. A triangle is much stronger than than a square. An x is basically two triangles. But everyone is entitled to there opinions. This is my thought on the subject. Let me know how you guys feel. Happy cruising. Or building. Whatever stage your at, enjoy it.
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[duwem]

I would run the brake and fuel lines either in the rails or on top of them, or the exhaust far enough away.

Aside from that do you see any negatives as far as strength/handling goes to boxing?

I like it for the cosmetics as well, but primarily for strength.

[michaelnolimit]

Putting your brake and feul lines inside a boxed frame looks awesome and is a great idea untill you realize they leak. Very rarely do we finish a brake system and not have at least one leak the first time you fire the motor. We bleed and check a brake system with no leaks but as soon as the booster helps increase the fluid pressure you always have one small dribble that you have to put some wrenches on and give another quarter turn. We use the best flaring tool available. They retail for around 550 dollars. I have heard many many nightmare stories because of this approach. To the guys that have had success with this style of plumbing more power to you. Just want to make everyone aware of the possible future headache. Other than that I think its a great idea for a beautifully refined custom or hot rod.
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[duwem]

Those that box the frame, do you paint the inside of the rails and plates with some weld over paint to prevent rusting? If so what do you used?

I ordered my Flat Out vette crossmembers, now i need to get the frame cleaned up and boxed.

[Houston54]

Boxing the frame increases the shear strength of the chassis not the torsional strength which is how the frame flexes while under load from suspension forces or acceleration forces. The cross members provide the torsional support which reduces the frame flex.

A boxed frame looks good but is not a requirement to a good handling chassis. I prefer to put boxing plates at points where loads are transmitted to the frame members such as suspension mounts, steering cross members, transmission mounts and cross member tie points.

If you do choose to fully box the frame I would strongly suggest cutting or punching large diameter holes in the plates before welding them in. This will reduce weight, provide access to bed mounting holes, and access to any fluid lines you choose to run inside the frame rails. Be careful when welding the plates. Weld about 4 inches at a time in different areas and sides of the frame to prevent introducing stress and/or warping the frame members. This will happen if care is not taken.

One thing to note is that the 54 frame is different than earlier years in the rear axle area so any boxing plate kit made for earlier chassis may not fit in this area on a 54-55.1 frame.

Running fuel and brake lines inside a fully enclosed frame rail is not wise. If this is what you choose to do please make the lines a single length of tubing inside the rails with any connection outside the frame. Also ensure the tubing is secured with clips inside the rail but this will require access holes as previously mentioned.

Another suggestion would be to wait on doing any boxing plate installation until you have ALL the components that mount to the frame on hand. This includes any cross members, fuel/brake lines, fuel tank, battery box, cables, engine/trans, differential, etc.

Of course mock everything up with tack welds to identify any problems before final welding.

[duwem]

Ya, after a few posts I have decided it would be wise to run all the lines on the top of the rails, not the inside.

I plan to put weld nuts inside the rails before boxing for all components that attach to the frame.

I have a mig and tig welder. What would be best for running the beads (I am aware to do short section at a time and jump around to keep the heat down)? Figure the frame is like 15' long times 4 beads (top and bottom both sides) thats a LOT of weld!

Thinking of making a simple JIG to try to keep everything straight as I remove crossmembers and put in new ones.

[duwem]

Frame pretty much stripped down to the rails and 2 crossmembers to hold them in place.

LOTS of holes to fill in! Going to get it sandblasted then start with the boxing and vette crossmembers.

[NICK51]

i remember those days... it wasn't so long ago, good luck putting the boxing plates on

[solidaxel]

I think that is the right direction, start at the bottom!
The rest is defined, with time and more money !!!