turbo ls

[69trk]

Here's my plans... I'm thinking about selling the big block and the turbo 400, and replacing it with a 5.3 with a turbo with fuel injection, ac, ps, pdiskb and a 4l80e. I would like to drive this thing anywhere and run in the mid 10's... What do you guys think?

[85gmc2tone]

well that would be a smart choice to do a ls turbo swap. im not sure what the ls engine and tranny will cost but i can tell u that if u want in the 10's you will need a 70mm+ turbo which will run u about 1200$ plus a quality wastegate or blow off valve. going turbo gets costly. i have a 89 supra with a 3.0 inline six and a t70 on it and it makes about 720 at wheels at a 20psi on race gas

[BR3W CITY]

basically my goal for my build, but I'm going about it a different way. Looking at a procharger to get my ponies...and no ac

Anyways, the turbo 5.3 is a hot combination for sure. Heres the thing as I see it; I used an et calculator and with a weight of 3850 (guess) you'd need 650hp to hit a 10.54
A stock blocked turbo ls will let you play ball into the 500's, but at that point you need to go into the block. You could hit it a bit easier with the extra displacement of the 6.0, but still.
I think with the 5.3, you can get the right cam and valvetrain setup, forged pistons and new rods or at least forged pistons and new rod bolts. With a properly sized snail and maybe meth you can definitely get there. Might take more or less than that, obviously there's more than just hp to making a "10 second" truck.
Good luck either way, the ls motors are TONS of fun both for performance and for driveability. I used a 4l80e also and am happy with it. Its nice to have hp, tq, economy, and technology all together.

[70shortwide]

thats what im headed for slowly but surely. I think a turbo ls with a 4l80 is the ultimate street track combo!!!!

[blazerboy72]

Sounds like a good plan. There are many stock bottom end turbo 5.3's making well over 700 hp. Mine is stock other than a turbo cam, valve springs, push rods, and head bolts. I am using a T70 to start with but will probably get something a little larger.

[noonzor]

im headed the same direction, but as stated, going turbo gets costly fast. its one thing to build the stupid powerful motor, but puting the drivetrain together to support it is the kicker. i just got the funds together to build my engine(longblock only), and im prolly another year out or so to afford my trans, and slowly piecing together my rear end. but done properly and patiently ill be able to street drive and run low 10's all while keepin around 20mpg(so ive been told). 6.0L + 76mm precision + 4L80e, 9" locker in a 69swb.

[softballnrd27]

I have done countless research and asked lots of questions regarding this matter and will one day have a turbo on my truck as well. Your current rig has a fairly powerful motor in it so your drivtrain should be good(I am guessing). To be on the safe side I would overbuild the trans and not just do what it take to reach your goals. Internally I would replace the pistons with forged and some new rods while you are in there. Alot of people suggest replacing just the rod bolts but add the cost of the bolts and the resizing and you can have new rods for just a bit more. Intake wise you should be ok with the stock one or you can upgrade to an LS6 for some better power up top. If you go with a carb style intake and want to keep fuel injection stick with the Super Vic and a 4150 Style throttle body and stay away from the elbows. Get a cam made for boost and a sturdy valvetrain, I wouldn't skimp on parts in this department.
As far as turbo selection there are a ton of them out there. Talk to someone prior to purchasing to make sure you are gettting what you need to meet your goals. Bigger isn't always better but having to buy 2 different turbos bc you went to small the 1st time will cost more obviously. Good luck and can't wait to see this thing!!

[ItsRandy]

Originally Posted by 69trk

Here's my plans... I'm thinking about selling the big block and the turbo 400, and replacing it with a 5.3 with a turbo with fuel injection, ac, ps, pdiskb and a 4l80e. I would like to drive this thing anywhere and run in the mid 10's... What do you guys think?

Why not just turbocharge the big block?

[softballnrd27]

That is another valid option. Not a whole lot of those around nowadays!!

[nomrlz]

Originally Posted by 69trk

Here's my plans... I'm thinking about selling the big block and the turbo 400, and replacing it with a 5.3 with a turbo with fuel injection, ac, ps, pdiskb and a 4l80e. I would like to drive this thing anywhere and run in the mid 10's... What do you guys think?

guy locally doing it with his late 60's/early 70's 1/2 ton. drives 60+ to shows/cruises and runs 10.8s. a buddy did a local competition driving his 5.3 foxbody over 100miles one way, ran 9's and drove home to win but with a th400. that car has run a best of 9.14 @ 149. do your homework and don't cheap out parts.

[BigDan3131]

I was going to put twins in my El Camino but have put that off until I have a full sized truck with more engine room. I will be using these guys: www.wrenchrat.com because they offer a complete kit.

[Super73]

Originally Posted by ItsRandy

Why not just turbocharge the big block?

You would have way more money in turboing a big block for little to no gain over a turbo small block.

From a power stand point, small cubic inch motors make the same as big cubic inch motors if they both are running the same turbo at its max. Any given turbo can only move so much air, and air is power. The Small ci motor will see more boost than the Big ci motor.

The turbo system cost isn't the cost that I am reffering to as it would be the same. The big additional cost that turboing a BBC has it the fuel injection system. You can run a 3 bar system on stock LS computers/harnesses. With LS PCM's/harness combos less than $300, it's hard to beat. Plus a lot of the time you get them with a motor/trans pull out.

Yes you need bigger injectors but that is still only $300-600. Injectors might come in a kit for the BBC.

With the BBC and LS you would also need a fuel pump, so no difference here.


With that said, there is no real advantage IMO to run a turbo BBC.

[ItsRandy]

Originally Posted by Super73

You would have way more money in turboing a big block for little to no gain over a turbo small block.

From a power stand point, small cubic inch motors make the same as big cubic inch motors if they both are running the same turbo at its max. Any given turbo can only move so much air, and air is power. The Small ci motor will see more boost than the Big ci motor.

The turbo system cost isn't the cost that I am reffering to as it would be the same. The big additional cost that turboing a BBC has it the fuel injection system. You can run a 3 bar system on stock LS computers/harnesses. With LS PCM's/harness combos less than $300, it's hard to beat. Plus a lot of the time you get them with a motor/trans pull out.

Yes you need bigger injectors but that is still only $300-600. Injectors might come in a kit for the BBC.

With the BBC and LS you would also need a fuel pump, so no difference here.


With that said, there is no real advantage IMO to run a turbo BBC.

I am sure you are right, turbocharging a big block would cost more, however, there is really no replacement for cubic inches. You can build really high horsepower small displacement engines using technology. Using the same level of technology in a large displacement engine will yield more horsepower. If you start with large displacement, you need to use less technology to reach a given horsepower level and IMO, break fewer engine parts and have better driveability over the long run.

[Super73]

Originally Posted by ItsRandy

I am sure you are right, turbocharging a big block would cost more, however, there is really no replacement for cubic inches. You can build really high horsepower small displacement engines using technology. Using the same level of technology in a large displacement engine will yield more horsepower. If you start with large displacement, you need to use less technology to reach a given horsepower level and IMO, break fewer engine parts and have better driveability over the long run.

Not entirely true when it comes to a turbo application, NA I would agree. A turbo can only flow sooo much air. A turbo that will move X-lbs of air will make the same power regarless of cubic inches. Difference will be at what RPM. The smaller ci motors move the powerband up in RPM, spool slower.

For instance, my 91mm turbo moves enough air to make right about 1500hp. Maxed out it will make that same power on a 600ci motor or a 347ci motor.

Turbo being equal on both motors, they will make darn near the same power. Friction of the bigger motor might even yeild less power.

As far as breaking parts, the smaller motor has less roatating mass. I could argue that a big block that sees 6,500rpm sees just as much stress on internals as the smaller motor at 7,500.

[ItsRandy]

Originally Posted by Super73

Not entirely true when it comes to a turbo application, NA I would agree. A turbo can only flow sooo much air. A turbo that will move X-lbs of air will make the same power regarless of cubic inches. Difference will be at what RPM. The smaller ci motors move the powerband up in RPM, spool slower.

For instance, my 91mm turbo moves enough air to make right about 1500hp. Maxed out it will make that same power on a 600ci motor or a 347ci motor.

Turbo being equal on both motors, they will make darn near the same power. Friction of the bigger motor might even yeild less power.

As far as breaking parts, the smaller motor has less roatating mass. I could argue that a big block that sees 6,500rpm sees just as much stress on internals as the smaller motor at 7,500.

So...are you saying 10lbs of boost in a 350ci motor will yield the same (or close to the same) horsepower/torque as 10lbs of boost in a 600ci motor? I noticed you are changing from a 347ci ls1 to a 418ci ls3? Inquiring minds would like to know. I have seen 520+ci, 2,000 horsepower big blocks on pump gas, that you could comfortably drive to the corner market to get a 6 pack, if you could control yourself and not press down too far on the gas peddle. I will agree again, you can get huge horsepower from little motors with a (or 2) turbocharge(s). Those little 140ci Indy motors made somewhere around 600 horsepower on alcohol (they only needed to last a little over 500 miles). Just think what they could have made with 600ci.
By the way, I really like the picture of your truck with the left front wheel in the air...awesome! Sorry for jackin' the thread.

[Super73]

Originally Posted by ItsRandy

So...are you saying 10lbs of boost in a 350ci motor will yield the same (or close to the same) horsepower/torque as 10lbs of boost in a 600ci motor?

No, that is not what I am saying. Hypothetically a 76mm turbo might only be able to make 10lbs on the 600ci motor due to the displacement and required amount of air at rpm. Essentially the turbo is maxed out. But that same turbo might be able to produce a max of 25lbs of boost on the 350. At that point they would make approx the same power.

Originally Posted by ItsRandy

I noticed you are changing from a 347ci ls1 to a 418ci ls3? Inquiring minds would like to know.

I don't run a boosted motor in the truck. I do understand that bore+stroke makes power. Let alone unshrouding the valve.

Originally Posted by ItsRandy

I have seen 520+ci, 2,000 horsepower big blocks on pump gas, that you could comfortably drive to the corner market to get a 6 pack, if you could control yourself and not press down too far on the gas peddle. I will agree again, you can get huge horsepower from little motors with a (or 2) turbocharge(s). Those little 140ci Indy motors made somewhere around 600 horsepower on alcohol (they only needed to last a little over 500 miles). Just think what they could have made with 600ci.
By the way, I really like the picture of your truck with the left front wheel in the air...awesome! Sorry for jackin' the thread.

Randy, the point I am trying to make here is not many of us have the budget to run a 520+ twin turbo set up. A 5.3 runs good enough NA to make lot of people happy, let alone with a turbo on it. Stock bottom end 5.3's have been known to make 750rwhp with very tame street manners.

[Street Smart]

I have a customer of ours couple years back he bought a 2000 S10 blazer he found on ebay. Stock 6.0 with "home made looking" headers and an "ebay turbo and intercooler". Not running great it made 560 to the wheels and ran low 11`s.
Other then no air conditioning it had great street manners and was a blast to drive.

[ItsRandy]

Ok Super73...thank you for the conversation, I enjoyed it, I hope you did as well.

Randy

[69trk]

So i need to find a complete 5.3 with brackets, pulleys, intake and computer harness. I have also heard that i need a gas pedal? Which year of engine would be best? What i want to do is change rod bolts and head bolts and gaskets. Try to run stock intake with bigger injectors and just reprogram the computer. Will this work or not.... Trying to be able to do this for around 8-9k.

[usmcchevy]

Originally Posted by 69trk

So i need to find a complete 5.3 with brackets, pulleys, intake and computer harness. I have also heard that i need a gas pedal? Which year of engine would be best? What i want to do is change rod bolts and head bolts and gaskets. Try to run stock intake with bigger injectors and just reprogram the computer. Will this work or not.... Trying to be able to do this for around 8-9k.

You only need the gas pedal+throttle actuator controller (TAC) if the engine has Drive by wire (DBW). All 03+ trucks have DBW, Express vans didn't get DBW until 05ish.

Year....doesn't matter much. If you go up to a 6.0, the early 99-00 6.0's had cast iron heads. in 05 the LQ4 6.0 got the heavier rods of the LQ9.

You may have seen this already:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...lock_for_3252/

[69trk]

sold engine and tranny, so here we go.... wish me luck... I'll be posting in the engine section where it says lsx swaps on the top of the page....

[bigboybodry]

Originally Posted by 69trk

sold engine and tranny, so here we go.... wish me luck... I'll be posting in the engine section where it says lsx swaps on the top of the page....

let me know how it goes I have been kicking that around for a few years. my brother is a big ls guy and keeps telling me look at the weight difference etc... good luck and if I can help in any way let me know.

[69trk]

thanks...

[bigboybodry]

Originally Posted by 69trk

thanks...

you got it!
by the way I work for GM if you need wiring diagrams etc....

If you get a used engine trans. with wiring harness from a salvage yard get the vin off that car/truck it will help with wire colors/diagrams we have swapped several ls base engines into s10 and mustangs.