Frame painting advice ... Bare metal???

[BarryV]

Hi Guys,

How close to bare metal does a frame need to be to avoid recurring rust issues? I am looking for general advice.

This car is going to be a driver, so perfection is not necessary. However I am balancing that with my son's desire (and initiative) to get his frame painted.

Product advice? Lets say we want "very little visible rust in 10 years". Is POR 15 the way to go? I would be nervous trying to so that in my driveway.

Take a look at the pictures and let me know!

Thanks,

Barry

[72kool]

im sure other board members will know more and have a better answer for you but when i did my '72 nova i just powerwashed it really good and hand sanded a few rougher spots and then applied that por15 paint on.it said that a little rust on the surface helps the paint to stick and it will smooth out great. i did the entire chasis on my nova with no issues in a few hours in my driveway

[BarryV]

Originally Posted by 72kool

im sure other board members will know more and have a better answer for you but when i did my '72 nova i just powerwashed it really good and hand sanded a few rougher spots and then applied that por15 paint on.it said that a little rust on the surface helps the paint to stick and it will smooth out great. i did the entire chasis on my nova with no issues in a few hours in my driveway

Wow! Thats the kind of story I like to hear!

I've looked a the POR 15 website and I see a three-part procedure with a degreaser, followed by some kind of acid, then finishing with the paint. Looks like I need to do some more research!


Barry

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by BarryV

Hi Guys,

How close to bare metal does a frame need to be to avoid recurring rust issues? I am looking for general advice.

This car is going to be a driver, so perfection is not necessary. However I am balancing that with my son's desire (and initiative) to get his frame painted.

Product advice? Lets say we want "very little visible rust in 10 years". Is POR 15 the way to go? I would be nervous trying to so that in my driveway.

Take a look at the pictures and let me know!

Thanks,

Barry

Eastwood (and some other places) have what is known as a "rust converter". It is the chemical used in POR 15 that chemically changes Iron Oxide (rust) into Iron Phosphate, a tough waterproof barrier. POR 15 will not flow into the riveted joints in your frame. This stuff is like water. It will wick into the joints of the frame and stop all of the rust in the joints where POR 15 offers no protection. At 15 bucks a gallon, it's cheap insurance to treat the joints and fasteners with this then apply por 15. Incidentally, sunlight breaks down POR 15 in just a few weeks so, a top coat of any satin black solvent based paint is a good idea.

[BarryV]

Originally Posted by Fitz

Eastwood (and some other places) have what is known as a "rust converter". It is the chemical used in POR 15 that chemically changes Iron Oxide (rust) into Iron Phosphate, a tough waterproof barrier. POR 15 will not flow into the riveted joints in your frame. This stuff is like water. It will wick into the joints of the frame and stop all of the rust in the joints where POR 15 offers no protection. At 15 bucks a gallon, it's cheap insurance to treat the joints and fasteners with this then apply por 15. Incidentally, sunlight breaks down POR 15 in just a few weeks so, a top coat of any satin black solvent based paint is a good idea.

Thanks Fitz!

I see that Eastwood product comes in an aerosol too ... looks like I can spray it into hard-to-reach areas if needed.

When you say, "then apply POR 15", are you skipping the degreaser and the metal prep parts? Sorry ... I am new to this and want to make sure I get this right.


Barry

[turp mcspray]

If you going so far as to do a frame off, I would HIGHLY recommend that you sandblast the frame clean. Anytime you paint over rust, it is still there, waiting to reappear.
Spend a little extra $ now, and you will be glad you did, in the long run.

[Jahloha]

In all honestly, if you are going to do a frame off, pay someone the $100-$150 to blast the frame. I began wire wheeling the front it and spent $50 on supplies alone. Then I wised up and will be paying someone to blast it later this week actually.

Also, I went with MasterSeries paint for the frame.

Just let me know if you have any other questions.

Good luck!

[beetle1960]

Originally Posted by Jahloha

In all honestly, if you are going to do a frame off, pay someone the $100-$150 to blast the frame. I began wire wheeling the front it and spent $50 on supplies alone. Then I wised up and will be paying someone to blast it later this week actually.

Also, I went with MasterSeries paint for the frame.

Just let me know if you have any other questions.

Good luck!

What they said...

[Bigdav160]

That metal in the picture is almost too clean for POR15. I've used POR without all that clean up prep with great success. Other will bash POR15 relentlessly.

Rust converters are just weak acids. The same thing can be done with vinegar, CLR, Ospho etc.....

[BarryV]

Originally Posted by Bigdav160

That metal in the picture is almost too clean for POR15. I've used POR without all that clean up prep with great success. Other will bash POR15 relentlessly.

Rust converters are just weak acids. The same thing can be done with vinegar, CLR, Ospho etc.....

Thank you for this perspective.

[BarryV]

Originally Posted by Jahloha

In all honestly, if you are going to do a frame off, pay someone the $100-$150 to blast the frame. I began wire wheeling the front it and spent $50 on supplies alone. Then I wised up and will be paying someone to blast it later this week actually.

Also, I went with MasterSeries paint for the frame.

Just let me know if you have any other questions.

Good luck!

I'm about $40 in already with a few other (returnable) wheels and brushed that can be returned if necessary.

I was under the impression that blasting would be much more than that. I saw $100-$150 and immediately made a couple phone calls. $110 an hour (the one place that has gotten back to me) and the estimate was about an hour and a half.

Food for thought!


Barry

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by bigdav160

that metal in the picture is almost too clean for por15. I've used por without all that clean up prep with great success. Other will bash por15 relentlessly.

Rust converters are just weak acids. The same thing can be done with vinegar, clr, ospho etc.....

x2

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by BarryV

Thanks Fitz!

I see that Eastwood product comes in an aerosol too ... looks like I can spray it into hard-to-reach areas if needed.

When you say, "then apply POR 15", are you skipping the degreaser and the metal prep parts? Sorry ... I am new to this and want to make sure I get this right.


Barry

Barry:

Nope. Do the degreaser first, do the metal prep, apply the rust converter in the hard to get places then brush or spray the POR 15.

[crakarjax]

I read that red oxide paint works well. I'm using some on my chassis right now, but the stuff is taking FOREVER to cure. Time will tell whether it holds up...

[BarryV]

Thanks all!

Summary of what I've learned:
1) Sand blasting is not that expensive relative to abrasive pads/wire brushes/time.
2) You can remove too much rust for rust converters to work (or be necessary)

Here's the remaining question:
3) Is there a middle ground that should be avoided where *most* of the surface rust is removed (but not completely)? In other words, would it be detrimental to use a rust converter "just to be safe" or "on the hard to reach areas", or does that create a situation where the POR15 (or other coating) will not stick?


Barry

[piecesparts]

Did you ever hear of a product called Rust Bullet? This stuff is as hard as nails and resists rust returning. I have a friend that did his frame on his truck, after they shortened it and now they are using the truck as a mud bogger. This stuff stood up to all of the dragging and banging that was in the shop as they built the truck and it still is standing up to water and abuse.

http://www.rustbullet.com/?source=ad...FZaCaQodvHcAMQ

[54blackhornet]

In my area you can have a frame sand blasted & Power Coated for under $200.00 !

[BarryV]

Originally Posted by 54blackhornet

In my area you can have a frame sand blasted & Power Coated for under $200.00 !

I got a couple quotes on sandblasting: $110/hour with an estimate of 1 1/2 hours. Another was "around $100".

The powder coating was another couple hundred on top of that.

I am afraid of "scope creep", however.


Barry

[BarryV]

Originally Posted by piecesparts

Did you ever hear of a product called Rust Bullet? This stuff is as hard as nails and resists rust returning. I have a friend that did his frame on his truck, after they shortened it and now they are using the truck as a mud bogger. This stuff stood up to all of the dragging and banging that was in the shop as they built the truck and it still is standing up to water and abuse.

http://www.rustbullet.com/?source=ad...FZaCaQodvHcAMQ

I had not heard of rust bullet. Thanks for the tip!


Barry

[texasld]

Originally Posted by BarryV

I'm about $40 in already with a few other (returnable) wheels and brushed that can be returned if necessary.

I was under the impression that blasting would be much more than that. I saw $100-$150 and immediately made a couple phone calls. $110 an hour (the one place that has gotten back to me) and the estimate was about an hour and a half.

Food for thought!


Barry

X2 to what they said

I took my truck totally down to frame and had it blasted. Cost me $160. Well worth it. I have since found a place that would blast and powder coat for $300 in Dallas.

I used POR15. Seems to work pretty well. It's pricy. Haven't had it on the road yet. POR is very thin. A little goes a long way. I have little Air Bubbles in places. Please do yourself a favor and put down some plastic sheeting or tarps. It doesn't come off!!! It will also stick to your skin for days! Wear gloves and all the PPE. I bumped my elbow and it was black for a week. Make sure you follow the instructions to a Tee if you go this route.

If I could do it all over again. Now that I have a reliable coating place, I would have had it powdered.

[calvin78612]

Read up on Hammerite !

[slowcpe]

I've got some Chasis Saver that I plan to use on the frame. As much as I would love to sandblast the entire frame and powder coat I have a few reservations:

I don't want nor really have the time/space to tear the entire frame down

My mind changes with the wind and don't want to mess up the pretty powder coat job if I decide to add a drop member, switch to coilovers or convert to 4x4.

I'm kind of looking forward to making the frame nice myself.