9 volts w/ CS144 and AAW 500560 harness

[Joemomma1]

The attached diagram shows how i have my truck wired. With the key turned to the accessory postilion i have 12.5 volts at all circuits except the four I have circled. I have 9 volts at each of those fuses.
I get 14.5-14.75 volts while running at the battery.
With the key switched to accessory If I remove the two wire plug at the back of the alternator I get the full 12.5 volts at the circuits in question. The brown wire has a 82 ohm 3 watt resistor soldered inline as required by this series of alternator. Any help is appreciated. I know I'm not being too detailed but wanted to post this up quickly. Thanks

[jtrichard]

I have always used a diode not a resistor in place of the idiot light (6 amp/50 volt diode)
I dont see what the dashed brown wire is? is that the resistor? you do have the HOT in #2 on the back of alternator?
https://www.google.com/search?q=10si...3ywtjKX9pqM%3A
you may want to read this also http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/de...e-what-990321/

[Joemomma1]

Originally Posted by jtrichard

I have always used a diode not a resistor in place of the idiot light (6 amp/50 volt diode)
I dont see what the dashed brown wire is? is that the resistor? you do have the HOT in #2 on the back of alternator?
https://www.google.com/search?q=10si...3ywtjKX9pqM%3A
you may want to read this also http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/de...e-what-990321/

Thanks for the response. What I installed looks like what's shown in that Google link I may be calling it the wrong name. From what I gathered through this forum is that the stock dash light does not offer enough resistence to trigger the alt to charge. This was confirmed when the alternator started working after I had added the resistor/diode. My alt is wired just like your link shows. It has two wires. Brown running to the ignition and red to the post on the alternator itself. The dashed brown wire is a backup resistor wire in case the bulb blows out.

I also just realized my attachment doesn't show where I circled. On the page showing the fuse panel the 4 fuse spots on the left of panel are the circuits I'm talking about. I'm trying to hook up a relay for the fan but 9 volts doesn't seem to be enough to trigger the relay.

I cannot figure out why the alternator being connected would drop the voltage on the accessory side of the panel.

[ray_mcavoy]

Originally Posted by Joemomma1

I cannot figure out why the alternator being connected would drop the voltage on the accessory side of the panel.

As shown on your diagram, those 4 fuses you circled receive power from the ignition switch accessory terminal. And the alternator's "exciter" circuit receives power from there as well.

What happens if you leave the alternator disconnected and place a load on any of those 4 fused accessory circuits? Does that cause the voltage to drop as well? If so, I'd suspect a problem with the ignition switch's accessory contacts.


The CS alternators do require a minimum of 35Ω in the warning light / "exciter" circuit that is connected to their "L" terminal. So the 82Ω, 3W resistor you used should be plenty adequate.

[Joemomma1]

Originally Posted by ray_mcavoy

As shown on your diagram, those 4 fuses you circled receive power from the ignition switch accessory terminal. And the alternator's "exciter" circuit receives power from there as well.

What happens if you leave the alternator disconnected and place a load on any of those 4 fused accessory circuits? Does that cause the voltage to drop as well? If so, I'd suspect a problem with the ignition switch's accessory contacts.


The CS alternators do require a minimum of 35Ω in the warning light / "exciter" circuit that is connected to their "L" terminal. So the 82Ω, 3W resistor you used should be plenty adequate.

Ray,

While left unplugged from the alternator and a relay coneccted to one of those circuits the voltage drops from 12.5 to 9. When you say contacts do you mean internally?

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by Joemomma1

The attached diagram shows how i have my truck wired. With the key turned to the accessory postilion i have 12.5 volts at all circuits except the four I have circled. I have 9 volts at each of those fuses.
I get 14.5-14.75 volts while running at the battery.
With the key switched to accessory If I remove the two wire plug at the back of the alternator I get the full 12.5 volts at the circuits in question. The brown wire has a 82 ohm 3 watt resistor soldered inline as required by this series of alternator. Any help is appreciated. I know I'm not being too detailed but wanted to post this up quickly. Thanks

Originally Posted by jtrichard

I have always used a diode not a resistor in place of the idiot light (6 amp/50 volt diode)

This works in most cases because the diode does have some resistance, however the main purpose of the diode is to prevent backfeed voltage on the brown exciter wire from keeping the ignition circuit live when the key is shut off. The extra resistor on the CS style alternators, like ray says, is necessary to prevent the exciter wire voltage from burning out the diodes in the alternator diode trio and the voltage regulator.

I dont see what the dashed brown wire is? is that the resistor? you do have the HOT in #2 on the back of alternator?
https://www.google.com/search?q=10si...3ywtjKX9pqM%3A
you may want to read this also http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/de...e-what-990321/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Joemomma1

Thanks for the response. What I installed looks like what's shown in that Google link I may be calling it the wrong name. From what I gathered through this forum is that the stock dash light does not offer enough resistence to trigger the alt to charge.

The link shows several pictures of alternator wiring diagrams. Yours is a CS 144 and it only has the brown wire to terminal "L" and the red wire to the large post on the alternator Which I recommend you upgrade to at least a 10 gauge or even 8 gauge.

I have created a diagram for the SI series and the CS
series conversions. It actually shows the earlier CS alternators which have a red voltage sensing wire going to the "S" terminal which you don't need.






This was confirmed when the alternator started working after I had added the resistor/diode. My alt is wired just like your link shows. It has two wires. Brown running to the ignition and red to the post on the alternator itself. The dashed brown wire is a backup resistor wire in case the bulb blows out.

The brown wire runs from the alternator to the firewall block and from there it is the brown/white striped wire to the ACC terminal on the key switch.

I also just realized my attachment doesn't show where I circled. On the page showing the fuse panel the 4 fuse spots on the left of panel are the circuits I'm talking about.

I don't see your attachment but I'm assuming the four spots are the large brown wire (12 gauge) feeds, from the ignition switch ACC terminal. Those would be the heater/AC, the wiper, and the turn signal flashers.


I'm trying to hook up a relay for the fan but 9 volts doesn't seem to be enough to trigger the relay.

I don't know how you have the fan wired but you should come off the fuse panel IGN UNFUSED terminal, for the 86 terminal on the relay, and the 85 terminal should come from the fan sensor in the manifold.

The fan power should come from a battery or alternator hot junction with a 30 amp fuse inline for the fan. This wire would go to the no. 30 terminal on the relay, and the fan power wire would come off no 87 on the relay and go to the fan. These should be 12 gauge wires.

I cannot figure out why the alternator being connected would drop the voltage on the accessory side of the panel.

I suspect that you may have blown a diode in the alternator and when it is plugged in the draw down is caused by the current going through the diode/s to the alternator body. That would cause a battery drain with the ignition off. You can check that by doing a continuity test between the L terminal and the alternator body. If you get continuity(zero ohms) both ways then the alternator needs replaced or repaired.

When the engine is running and the alternator is charging does the four spots you mentioned still show 9 volts and does the fan not work?

I have not answered you in PMs because I can post diagrams here>

[ray_mcavoy]

Originally Posted by Joemomma1

Ray,

While left unplugged from the alternator and a relay coneccted to one of those circuits the voltage drops from 12.5 to 9. When you say contacts do you mean internally?

Okay, so powering a relay (coil I assume) off that circuit also causes a voltage drop even with the alternator unplugged. That seems to indicate that you have excessive resistance in the feed to that circuit.

And yes, when I said contacts, I mean the electrical contacts inside the ignition switch. Specifically, the ones that power the accessory terminal. It sounds like they might not be making a very good connection, resulting in extra unwanted resistance that's causing the voltage drop.

Under no-load conditions, there isn't any current flowing through the circuit to create a voltage drop across the extra resistance so you see full battery voltage. But as soon as you add a load (like the alternator exciter, relay, etc) it draws some current through that resistance, creating a voltage drop.

[Joemomma1]

Thanks to everyone that has posted here with help. Going on what was pointed to here, the ignition switch, I found the brown acc wire at the ignition switch was in the wrong spot on the harness which ended up feeding nothing. The acc terminal on the ignition switch was not connected to anything. After moving it everything is working as it should...for now. I had someone else install the kit and so far am finding a few things that have me questioning why I ever did that.

In regards to the efan, I have efan wire going to terminal 86 and 85 is to ground. terminal 30 is from the battery and 87 feeding a volvo two speed fan relay. I used 10ga. Why would I want it unfused? The diagram from AAW shows the fan being fed from that fused circuit. The attachment is in my first post to this thread. Thanks.

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by Joemomma1

Thanks to everyone that has posted here with help. Going on what was pointed to here, the ignition switch, I found the brown acc wire at the ignition switch was in the wrong spot on the harness which ended up feeding nothing. The acc terminal on the ignition switch was not connected to anything. After moving it everything is working as it should...for now. I had someone else install the kit and so far am finding a few things that have me questioning why I ever did that.

In regards to the efan, I have efan wire going to terminal 86 and 85 is to ground. terminal 30 is from the battery and 87 feeding a volvo two speed fan relay. I used 10ga. Why would I want it unfused? The diagram from AAW shows the fan being fed from that fused circuit. The attachment is in my first post to this thread. Thanks.

The fan power should come from a battery or alternator hot junction with a 30 amp fuse inline for the fan. This wire would go to the no. 30 terminal on the relay, and the fan power wire would come off no 87 on the relay and go to the fan. These should be 12 gauge wires.

I don't know how you have the fan wired but you should come off the fuse panel IGN UNFUSED terminal, for the 86 terminal on the relay, and the 85 terminal should come from the fan sensor in the manifold.

Quoted from my post above in response to your question in red in the quote from your last post.

The IGN NUFUSED terminal on the fuse panel is just a power terminal controlled by the ignition switch. Anything using it for a power source needs to be fused separately. In the case of the fan relay power to 86, the relay should engage with very little current because the relay coil will close at a few milliamps. That's why most diagrams don't show it as a fused wire.

The IGN UNFUSED terminal is often used as a power source for other accessories such as the HEI distributor and those may need to be fused

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Your finding on the key switch wiring makes a diagnosis almost impossible, and Ray and I were trying to account for the voltage drop that you showed. If you showed no feeds on the brown ACC wire I am puzzled as to how you showed any voltage at all I.E. 12 volts and 9 volts. Ray may be able to tell, but the only clue as we both said was resistance creating a voltage drop.

Anyway I'm glad you got it resolved.

If I can find it I'll post a good diagram of the fan wiring. Your PFD diagram is pretty hard to read but I down loaded it and enlarged it and I'm going to study it to see how they wired the relay. I didn't see the 86 power source so I'll look at it again.
Cheers VV

[ray_mcavoy]

Joemomma1, I'm glad to hear you found the problem.

Originally Posted by Joemomma1

... I found the brown acc wire at the ignition switch was in the wrong spot on the harness which ended up feeding nothing. The acc terminal on the ignition switch was not connected to anything.

Originally Posted by VetteVet

Your finding on the key switch wiring makes a diagnosis almost impossible, and Ray and I were trying to account for the voltage drop that you showed. If you showed no feeds on the brown ACC wire I am puzzled as to how you showed any voltage at all I.E. 12 volts and 9 volts. Ray may be able to tell, but the only clue as we both said was resistance creating a voltage drop.

Yeah, VetteVet, I was thinking the same thing. That does seem rather strange that he was getting the 12V & 9V readings without the brown wire hooked up to the ACC terminal.

Without knowing the details, it's hard to say for sure. But I wonder if that brown ACC feed wire was accidentally connected to one of the ignition switch GND terminals along with the wire for the brake warning (or temp) light bulb check. Since that bulb is hooked to IGN+ and it's "ground" side is "floating" (when the switches are open), the bulb filament would act as a "pull up" resistor, bringing that brown wire up to battery voltage under no load conditions and likely allowing it to drop to 9V under a small load. Again, that's just a guess on my part to possibly explain those voltage readings.

[Joemomma1]

Originally Posted by VetteVet

Quoted from my post above in response to your question in red in the quote from your last post.

The IGN NUFUSED terminal on the fuse panel is just a power terminal controlled by the ignition switch. Anything using it for a power source needs to be fused separately. In the case of the fan relay power to 86, the relay should engage with very little current because the relay coil will close at a few milliamps. That's why most diagrams don't show it as a fused wire.

The IGN UNFUSED terminal is often used as a power source for other accessories such as the HEI distributor and those may need to be fused

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Your finding on the key switch wiring makes a diagnosis almost impossible, and Ray and I were trying to account for the voltage drop that you showed. If you showed no feeds on the brown ACC wire I am puzzled as to how you showed any voltage at all I.E. 12 volts and 9 volts. Ray may be able to tell, but the only clue as we both said was resistance creating a voltage drop.

Anyway I'm glad you got it resolved.

If I can find it I'll post a good diagram of the fan wiring. Your PFD diagram is pretty hard to read but I down loaded it and enlarged it and I'm going to study it to see how they wired the relay. I didn't see the 86 power source so I'll look at it again.
Cheers VV

I see what you mean now but this kit came with a dedicated fused circuit for the fan. Their diagram shows it as the power feed but I'm using it for the coil circuit of the relay and powering the fan straight from the battery. I can't see why there was any voltage on the accessory side but will study the diagram.

[gmachinz]

Have u thought about just powering the Volvo relay under hood instead. I don't agree with making the fuse panel under dash an incoming voltage bussbar then sending high current back out again....

[Joemomma1]

Originally Posted by gmachinz

Have u thought about just powering the Volvo relay under hood instead. I don't agree with making the fuse panel under dash an incoming voltage bussbar then sending high current back out again....

Thanks for the reply and I'm right there with you. I must not be very clear at describing what I'm doing but I have it wired as you suggested. I'm only using the wire from the fuse panel for the coil side of a relay feeding the Volvo relay. The AAW diagram shows it as the power source for the fan though. I wanted it to be switched so it will not keep running when I turn the truck off. It's tough to make heads and tails of the photo but the Volvo relay is attached to the battery tray. I tried to keep it as clean and as close to the battery as possible.

[gmachinz]

Ok....sometimes it makes you wonder if AAW even builds actual vehicles to test the latest trends ya know?

At any rate, the factory Volvos (and me as well) use an IGN control relay to feed power to the Volvo relay-its this reason why I wonder the reasoning behind Painless and AAW supplying a 10ga IGN switched 12V fan lead. I wouldn't suggest running a switched IGN source for electric fans solely through the IGN switch circuit-it will get warm. The relays I use are 80A rated mainly because I prefer to use oversized input/output terminals for high current devices such as electric fans

So I take it you're using a 2-speed fan(s)? What type are you running off that Volvo relay? Are you using a dual temp switch or (2) separate temp switches?

[Joemomma1]

Originally Posted by gmachinz

Ok....sometimes it makes you wonder if AAW even builds actual vehicles to test the latest trends ya know?

At any rate, the factory Volvos (and me as well) use an IGN control relay to feed power to the Volvo relay-its this reason why I wonder the reasoning behind Painless and AAW supplying a 10ga IGN switched 12V fan lead. I wouldn't suggest running a switched IGN source for electric fans solely through the IGN switch circuit-it will get warm. The relays I use are 80A rated mainly because I prefer to use oversized input/output terminals for high current devices such as electric fans

So I take it you're using a 2-speed fan(s)? What type are you running off that Volvo relay? Are you using a dual temp switch or (2) separate temp switches?

Sounds like I'm doing it right then. The fan wire is either 12 ga or 14ga, definitely not 10ga.

80A relay?! Wow. It's hooked up with a 30A and hasn't popped yet while I've been testing it. I'm using a two speed Taurus fan in and an Audi dual temp switch installed on the thermostat housing. Do you recommend 80A on all efans? Could I be starving the motor?

[gmachinz]

I don't think you'll have any issues as long as you're using a quality relay-I simply like to use a relay rated @ twice the max amp draw the fan will ever see. It may be slightly overkill but I know the relay isn't working super hard this way....ya know?

[Jferrante]

Saw this thread as I am working on my AAW 500560 as well. Glad you figured your problem out. I am troubleshooting as well.

[Joemomma1]

Originally Posted by gmachinz

Have u thought about just powering the Volvo relay under hood instead. I don't agree with making the fuse panel under dash an incoming voltage bussbar then sending high current back out again....

After looking at the diagrams and instructions again I was incorrect. They did exactly as you said making the panel a buss bar. The 10ga wire is not shown on the complete harness diagram but on the individual page regarding the headlamp harness it is shown. I didn't notice this before as that wire is now being used for the headlight relays.

[gmachinz]

Ok...that makes a bit more sense then. So, are you still reading only 9V @ the inside fuseblock?

[Joemomma1]

Originally Posted by gmachinz

Ok...that makes a bit more sense then. So, are you still reading only 9V @ the inside fuseblock?

No. Getting full 12 volts now. Thanks for all the input.