Anyone Done a Gen. 3 Hemi Swap on a C/10?

[71GreenJunk]

Really losing the desire to get my c10 on the road since it's been sitting a few months while I've been working on fitting a 31 gallon square body tank under the bed. 305 was running like a top and in great condition but man it is weak. TH350 shifts slow and smooth. Towing converter is too tight. Super disappointing to drive. Shamefully gutless. Probably slowest thing I've ever owned that ran. Only thing I think would get me back into it would be to make some decent power. I've liked the gen. 3 Hemi since it came out, especially since the head redesign in 2009-ish. Think the normal production 5.7 heads flow 330 cfm at .500" lift. Wondering if anyone has done this or if there's any adapters that could be made to work on these trucks. Thought about building a 454 but they weigh more than I want, especially over the nose.
Thanks.
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[kolle_hond]

Why would you swap a dodge motor into a chevy? That's just asking for extra issues. If you want modern power, just do an LS swap, as there is way more support in terms of aftermarket parts and adapters for it.

[71GreenJunk]

Originally Posted by kolle_hond

Why would you swap a dodge motor into a chevy? That's just asking for extra issues. If you want modern power, just do an LS swap, as there is way more support in terms of aftermarket parts and adapters for it.

IN MY OPINION, GM hasn't been managed to build anything halfway decent since about 1987. The 5.7 Hemi and NAG1 was a treat to own and drive while I owned a Challenger R/T. I'm not really a fan of Chrysler or Daimler or Fiat but they did somehow manage to get it right with the NAG1 and gen 3 engines. BTW, my Challenger weighed more than my c/10 does. The car was just ok, engine and transmission were spectacular. In the end, engine packaging (mainly coolant inlet and outlet) and port flow on the stock 5.7 Hemi heads is the deciding factor. 330 cfm could theoretically support 626hp out of the box. A pro charger could do well with that in the future. The only real issue I can foresee is motor mounts. If no one has made adapters, I'll just build my own mounts and take the opportunity to set the engine back and down to help with weight distribution slightly. Of course that means I would need a driveshaft and new lines for the engine coolant and transmission fluid but they would be different regardless of whether it was an LS or Hemi.
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[kolle_hond]

Originally Posted by 71GreenJunk

IN MY OPINION, GM hasn't been managed to build anything halfway decent since about 1987. The 5.7 Hemi and NAG1 was a treat to own and drive while I owned a Challenger R/T. I'm not really a fan of Chrysler or Daimler or Fiat but they did somehow manage to get it right with the NAG1 and gen 3 engines. BTW, my Challenger weighed more than my c/10 does. The car was just ok, engine and transmission were spectacular. In the end, engine packaging (mainly coolant inlet and outlet) and port flow on the stock 5.7 Hemi heads is the deciding factor. 330 cfm could theoretically support 626hp out of the box. A pro charger could do well with that in the future. The only real issue I can foresee is motor mounts. If no one has made adapters, I'll just build my own mounts and take the opportunity to set the engine back and down to help with weight distribution slightly. Of course that means I would need a driveshaft and new lines for the engine coolant and transmission fluid but they would be different regardless of whether it was an LS or Hemi.
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Sorry, I did not mean to come across as aggressively in my post as it probably seemed. I'm just thinking about things like wiring, manual gauges, etc. which will all be a pain to do. If you can find a correct bellhousing it will make things a lot simpler on that side, unless you want to swap the transmission as well, which is too much effort in my opinion. You also need to consider things like the radiator, exhaust pipes and if you have/are planning to add power steering or A/C etc.
I have two old holden UTE shells, and over here the cheapest engine for swap/transplant is the V8 Lexus, so I have done quite a bit of research before deciding it is just not worth it to do an install, because of all the unforeseen costs.
But if you can do the fabrication of the mounts, the exhausts and find a bellhousing / adapter plate, you should be about half way there, and I would love to see the result.

[71GreenJunk]

Originally Posted by kolle_hond

Sorry, I did not mean to come across as aggressively in my post as it probably seemed. I'm just thinking about things like wiring, manual gauges, etc. which will all be a pain to do. If you can find a correct bellhousing it will make things a lot simpler on that side, unless you want to swap the transmission as well, which is too much effort in my opinion. You also need to consider things like the radiator, exhaust pipes and if you have/are planning to add power steering or A/C etc.
I have two old holden UTE shells, and over here the cheapest engine for swap/transplant is the V8 Lexus, so I have done quite a bit of research before deciding it is just not worth it to do an install, because of all the unforeseen costs.
But if you can do the fabrication of the mounts, the exhausts and find a bellhousing / adapter plate, you should be about half way there, and I would love to see the result.

No worries. I didn't take it as hostile and likewise I hope that you did not take my a hostile either. Wilcap I know makes an adapter for the Hemi to a sbc bellhousing. The Hemi bellhousing I believe is very close to the older LA small block but just different enough to not interchange. I really would prefer to keep a small block and just build a 377 or 400 from a Dart block but I just don't believe I could make enough power to make me happy and still be able to tow a light trailer or a couple engines/transmissions. That's my dilemma. Performance vs being able to corner somewhat well vs using it as a truck. I believe a 6.4 would probably be the best compromise. Lighter than a 454, more potential than a sbc while maintaining tractability at lower engine speeds. I've fabricated exhaust and mounts myself out of necessity before, as the local shop did a terrible job before. Not perfect certainly, but strong and effective. Motor mount shouldn't be too difficult, I've not specifically done motor mounts before but I imagine mostly a lot of measuring, mockup and test fitting. I have a local hydraulic repair shop that can do the power steering lines. Think I will retain the Saginaw pump and just make a custom bracket from steel plate. I think I could reuse the sbc radiator and have a stainless or aluminum tube bent up and ends bead rolled with some short sections of rubber hose for the inlet, outlet should be fine as flexible universal hose. Would also help since that new hoses don't come with the coil to prevent the hose from closing from the suction. There are thread adapters I could use for my coolant temp and oil pressure sending unit. Probably stick to the TH350 and install a manual valve body and some Sonnex parts to keep it happy. I would like the overdrive but I do know the 145ish hp 305 pulled to about 125 before laying over so I don't want to know what 475hp and overdrive could do but my better judgment is no match for my right foot. Wiring would be a pain but I do leave that work to my father. He enjoys it, I hate it. If I use an ECU and harness like a Haltech that should simply things over fiddling with trying to adapt a Chrysler ECU. They are high but seem to be worth the expense. There are some carb intakes for the Hemi but all are single plane or are poorly cast dual planes with tiny ports. I have also considered an F-body TPI on the 377 or 400 but they're now considered so obsolete it's hard to find the aftermarket lower, upper intakes and runners. Also not sure that would be worth the time and expense tracking down the TPI parts to do the conversion for likely just marginal improvement over a modern sbc dual plane.
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[Boog]

http://www.67-72chevytrucks.com/vboa...highlight=hemi

[Andy4639]

Originally Posted by Boog

http://www.67-72chevytrucks.com/vboa...highlight=hemi

That is sweet sir!
If you have the knowledge to do this then the repairing and stuff would be as easy as a LS would be.
Dang that's sweet!

[notsolo]

Do whatever makes you happy in the end, Hemi power like the 1 Boog posted very cool.... My only suggestion would be to make the brakes and suspension strong enough to handle the new rocket sled status.

[special-K]

You won't get many Chevy guys here to argue a 305 is a dull unit. That's why I have never owned a single vehicle that had one and never considered using one. But there is a whole lot of good driving pleasure to be had from the other small blocks. Thousands enjoy them every day. I have enjoyed 350s most all my life. Stock to bored & stroked pounders. If I wanted more without major modification GM has just the thing... the LS engines. Here is a comparison that gives good info:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...dWfUPBm5KNdAN-

I don't see any reason to go swapping around to using power from another beast when you can have all you need within species. After looking at the non-biased video I think the LS is a better engine.

[71GreenJunk]

Originally Posted by special-K

You won't get many Chevy guys here to argue a 305 is a dull unit. That's why I have never owned a single vehicle that had one and never considered using one. But there is a whole lot of good driving pleasure to be had from the other small blocks. Thousands enjoy them every day. I have enjoyed 350s most all my life. Stock to bored & stroked pounders. If I wanted more without major modification GM has just the thing... the LS engines. Here is a comparison that gives good info:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...dWfUPBm5KNdAN-

I don't see any reason to go swapping around to using power from another beast when you can have all you need within species. After looking at the non-biased video I think the LS is a better engine.

The LS is the biggest pile of garbage on earth. GM engineering after the '80s became the dullest in all of the world without a single good product leaving a GM plant to this day. Ed Cole, Charles Kettering, etc are rolling around in their graves. The only reason I'm moving away from a small block is a 400 or 377 probably won't have the low speed tractability that a Hemi would have while giving the power I want. I could easily get 500+ from a 377 or 400 but at the price of raising the power band. IIRC, a 410ci sprint car engine makes around 900hp. A 6.4 will make about 500 and can still pull from the bottom. If I still had knees that'd let me have a Muncie M21 rather than an automatic I wouldn't worry about it but with an automatic I've got to use a tight converter. If I was going to just run a loose converter and forget hauling things I'd just junk the truck and build a car.
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[71GreenJunk]

Originally Posted by notsolo

Do whatever makes you happy in the end, Hemi power like the 1 Boog posted very cool.... My only suggestion would be to make the brakes and suspension strong enough to handle the new rocket sled status.

Don't know if you've driven a boosted brake truck but my '71 with stock power brake parts off a donor turned it into a whole other vehicle. Like throwing out an anchor. I would be willing to bet as long as you kept from locking the brakes up, you could stop with many modern vehicles. Rotors are also very large and I've never experienced a hint of fade. Suspension on these trucks is an excellent design. No issues there but control arms allowing 8 degrees caster and 2x3 boxed tubing trailing arms with Deltin lined spherical bearings would be an improvement.
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[57taskforce]

Originally Posted by 71GreenJunk

The LS is the biggest pile of garbage on earth. GM engineering after the '80s became the dullest in all of the world without a single good product leaving a GM plant to this day. Ed Cole, Charles Kettering, etc are rolling around in their graves. The only reason I'm moving away from a small block is a 400 or 377 probably won't have the low speed tractability that a Hemi would have while giving the power I want. I could easily get 500+ from a 377 or 400 but at the price of raising the power band. IIRC, a 410ci sprint car engine makes around 900hp. A 6.4 will make about 500 and can still pull from the bottom. If I still had knees that'd let me have a Muncie M21 rather than an automatic I wouldn't worry about it but with an automatic I've got to use a tight converter. If I was going to just run a loose converter and forget hauling things I'd just junk the truck and build a car.
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Guess that’s why all the drag guys are buying junkyard 200,000 mile ls truck motors and slapping twins on them to the tune of 12-1500 hp on stock internals and heads while making them last for a long while. Yea sounds like garbage to me... guess that’s also why the ls has all the good aftermarket support to make them even better than they already are... Try building a ford mod or a HEMI for any where near as cheap and reliable as the ls are... I’m all about being original and if you desire to put a hemi in your truck I’d love to sit back and watch it come together, it sounds like a cool project and I respect that. However I wouldn’t be so quick to trash what is one of the best engine platforms ever engineered.

[71GreenJunk]

Originally Posted by 57taskforce

Guess that’s why all the drag guys are buying junkyard 200,000 mile ls truck motors and slapping twins on them to the tune of 12-1500 hp on stock internals and heads while making them last for a long while. Yea sounds like garbage to me... guess that’s also why the ls has all the good aftermarket support to make them even better than they already are... Try building a ford mod or a HEMI for any where near as cheap and reliable as the ls are... I’m all about being original and if you desire to put a hemi in your truck I’d love to sit back and watch it come together, it sounds like a cool project and I respect that. However I wouldn’t be so quick to trash what is one of the best engine platforms ever engineered.

Fact of the matter is once the pieces of garbage get 60k miles they piston slap, water pumps don't last much longer, lifter failures, defecting head castings over the course of 6 years. don't get me started on the oil pump design. the water pump design itself is horrendous. Reliable laughing my ass off. Had the misery of trying to keep a 5.3 together. Tohell with that!!!!
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[jocko]

Everyone has a right to their opinion, of course. I’m sure the Hemi is a great little motor, sure sounds neato. My opinion is that I’d still prefer a stock 350 to any hemi.
There are plenty of folks on here that have swapped LS motors into older trucks - and some of us have them in newer trucks - and personally I’m pretty happy with the more than sufficient power of my LS, and the 300k miles I’ve put on it without ever having to take it apart. Perhaps there is user error involved somewhere, especially if you’re only getting 60k on a 5.3. Telling a good chunk of the membership that their motors are junk, especially compared to a different manufacturers is, well, an opinion. Doesn’t mean it’s right, no matter how adamantly it’s stated.

[MARKDTN]

It's your truck and you can do whatever you want with it. Why anybody would put a Hemi in a Chevy truck is beyond me, but whatever. Hemi vs: LS HP and Torque numbers are similar.

I don't know why you have had so much trouble with LS stuff, you are one of a few. Just as a point of reference, my '01 5.3 Tahoe has 310K+ miles on it. Water pump went 256K, Alternator went 199K, transmission went 299K. Never had a valve cover off. Never had a starter or A/C compressor. Everything on it still works. It still uses less than a quart of oil in 5K miles and it's not black on the stick at change time. Towed trailers. Ran hard. Radiator tank cracked about 260K so I got a new one but the cooler fitting leaked. It was slipping on the way home one day and the fluid was like 3 qts low and black. I changed the filter and it went another 40K before it lost 4th gear at 299,956 miles.

If I were you I would buy/build a decent Gen 1 small-block and put that in. It will be a lot less work than putting a Hemi in it.

[rjs53]

I'm sure someone makes a way to get a hemi in a c10, if not like you say make your own. Its not rocket science. The trans cross member is a straight piece of square tubing. I would think the hardest part might be the wiring harness. But dodge guys are doing the same thing Chevy guys are doing with LS motors.

[rjs53]

Heres some info of a gen 3 into an A body. But they mention suppliers for aftermarket parts. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp...ne-swap-guide/

[71GreenJunk]

Glad you all have got good service out of your LS engines. Just had a couple of lemons just really turned me off GM engines post '87. As you can tell, I'm still a little bitter. That being said my mother does currently have an Alloytec that I think is a fantastic little engine just a little too small for a 4000 lb pickup. Then again the little AWD car it's in probably ends up weighing about the same. HMMM, turbo Alloytec C/10? That may have to warrant consideration.

Anyone think a TPI on a 400 sbc would be decent? Not a standard TPI but with some decent aftermarket runners and a lower intake. An aluminum big block would be perfect but the price of the block is a bit more than I care to spend.
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[57taskforce]

Originally Posted by 71GreenJunk

Glad you all have got good service out of your LS engines. Just had a couple of lemons just really turned me off GM engines post '87. As you can tell, I'm still a little bitter. That being said my mother does currently have an Alloytec that I think is a fantastic little engine just a little too small for a 4000 lb pickup. Then again the little AWD car it's in probably ends up weighing about the same. HMMM, turbo Alloytec C/10? That may have to warrant consideration.

Anyone think a TPI on a 400 sbc would be decent? Not a standard TPI but with some decent aftermarket runners and a lower intake. An aluminum big block would be perfect but the price of the block is a bit more than I care to spend.
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I’m not trying to be a jerk when I say this but I would think an aluminum big block would be cheaper to build and install than a hemi swap. Maybe I’m wrong but it would be a lot less to figure out than the hemi swap and the old school gm V8 stuff is a dime a dozen and pretty cheap especially compared to late model stuff.

[mongocanfly]

This is like walking a fine line....
But I'll have to disagree with you on the LS being junk...
I believe it to be one of the best designed engines out there...
My 99 5.3 had 285k on it never turned a screw on that engine except replacing the waterpump...never even changed sparkplugs...
I could go on and on about other LS engines I personally know have high mileage ....still going strong..
Like someone else stated..hotrod mag took a 4.8 and added turbo and a few other mods and cranked out 1200hp...and that engine came from a junkyard...
To each his own though...I would be more impressed if you stuck the dodge motor in a old dodge sweptline or such..
then theres cost...the hemi swaps I've seen done are extremely expesive...you could build several LS's and still not equal the cost of a hemi swap

[71GreenJunk]

Anyone know anything about these aluminum blocks from Bill Mitchell Products? $5000 so a bit cheaper than Dart. Can't find weight for the Dart option but these are supposed to be just 140 lb.
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[KQQL IT]

A fan of any swap that hurts feelings.
A good hi torque 383 will be light years ahead of that 305 that being said, a friend is doing a 5.0 coyote with a big x large whipple on top.
Goals are 8.50's thru a liberty 5 speed.
Should see the purists flip cant wait to see the bondo-bird fly again.

[MARKDTN]

Originally Posted by 71GreenJunk

...Anyone think a TPI on a 400 sbc would be decent? Not a standard TPI but with some decent aftermarket runners and a lower intake. An aluminum big block would be perfect but the price of the block is a bit more than I care to spend.
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I think 400 is too big for TPI. Don't get me wrong, I love TPI and have 2 running now, but if you rev high or have big cubic inches it gets expensive fast. Now if you built a 350 with TPI that would work well. My '83 K20 I swapped from the stock 350 to a '91 Corvette 350 (aluminum heads, roller cam, hypereutectic pistons...) Mileage went up. Driveability improved. It starts instantly. But it won't outrun a Vortec. It all depends on what you want.

[95 S_Trucker]

Those 5.7 hemis love to break valve springs and drop valves.

The only ls engines I would stay away from are 07-09 with AFM. Other than that, they are reliable.

What issues have you had with GM trucks after 87? The LS engines didn't come out in the trucks until 99.


The first year for the 6.4 truck hemi was 2014. Its gonna cost an arm and a leg to get one and then its gonna cost an arm and a leg to swap it in.

Originally Posted by 71GreenJunk

Fact of the matter is once the pieces of garbage get 60k miles they piston slap, water pumps don't last much longer, lifter failures, defecting head castings over the course of 6 years. don't get me started on the oil pump design. the water pump design itself is horrendous. Reliable laughing my ass off. Had the misery of trying to keep a 5.3 together. Tohell with that!!!!
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The only trucks with lifter issues are when AFM first came out. The hemi water pumps suck. The long bolts that go through the timing cover corrode and get stuck. Half the time the timing cover gasket leaks after the water pump replacement.(because half of the water pump bolts hold the timing cover in). The cheaply painted oil pans rust out(don't have to worry about that on GM cast aluminum pans).

There is a reason people are swapping LS engines into anything they will fit in(fords, dodges, imports, etc.), they are easy to get big power, reliable, and smaller.

[special-K]

The beefier bottom end on an LS impresses me. Overall size is easier to work with, too. I have a friend who bought his way into piston slapper hell with GM only to end up with a blown motor. I understand how that would leave a bad taste. But judge them all by that, or slam the door shut on GM for 30 years of product is just shooting yourself in the foot from where I stand. I didn't like the GMT400 when they first came out, it sucked that they discontinued the Malibu/Monte Carlo/El Camino. Yeah, I wasn't real happy with where things looked to be going after '87. But in '92 after seeing several GMT400s put to the stress test out on jobs and taking it, I ordered a truck up. Went 22 years and 335k very reliable miles. It was still a nice truck ready for much more when I sold it. I just can't find any flaws in that.