Replaced frayed wire - now no start

[tucsonjwt]

I replaced a frayed wire I found going to the remote solenoid on my 83 C20 and now the truck won't start. The wire I replaced was light green and all of the insulation had worn off, exposing bare wire. The green wire was inside a wire loom with the other wires so I did not notice it before I saw that the end of the wire was frayed where it attached to the solenoid. I don't know what it is for. After that, the truck won't start.

The first pic shows the bare wire and the second pic shows the larger black wire i replaced it with. It just attached to a butt splice connector, so i just replaced the connector and used 12 gage wire (the existing green wire looked like maybe 18 gauge wire.)

I am suspicious of the white round barrel looking thing in an adjacent wire. I have never seen a connector like this, but it had bare wires on both ends. It has two wires in and one wire out. Does anyone know what this is, and would it cause the truck not to start? The wires appear to be molded into the white device, not crimped. I suspect that the bare wires on either end indicate that the wires have been stressed and pulled out of the device.

The pink wire is on the S terminal of the solenoid.

Thanks.

[Palf70Step]

The only factory light green wire I know about in the engine compartment is for the headlights. None of the squares I had ever had that solenoid, so I am not sure what it is supporting.

[Sabaka454]

That is a fusible link and you cannot just bypass it. That is your primary circuit protection. I'd advise you disconnect the battery until you isolate the problem and replace it with a new fusible link.

[hatzie]

You should cut the wires off behind the nylon balun and install the fusible link wire on both just as the factory did.

GM made a bunch of changes about where those wires ran on every year so you should look in the GM wiring diagrams for your year truck to be sure.
The exact fusible link wire gauge will be in the wiring diagrams.
Don't put a larger gauge wire in to replace it.
Don't use a Maxi-fuse or a circuit breaker either because they don't have the same characteristics as the fusible link wire.

[tucsonjwt]

I am having trouble reading the wiring diagram to get the exact wire size and associated information.

Is the fried green wire the fusible link or is the white nylon balun the fusible link?

I can't find any direct fit fusible links so it looks like I will have to come up with some sort of universal replacement.

[hatzie]

The fried green wire is the burned up fusible link.
The balun was injection molded over the splice by Blaylock or Precision or ... whatever wiring harness builder made the harness for GM.

The 1983 wring manual pages are nice clean hi-res scans that I did later in the manual project once I knew what I was doing. They can be blown up to 300% and maybe more in Acrobat to show details without getting grainy and super pixellated.
There are two fusible links at the starter in the 1983 wiring diagrams. For people with other year trucks... other years will have other arrangements. GM changed this up a lot.
One fusible link is protecting two wires and the other is protecting a single wire.
In the 1983 wiring diagrams;

• The single is 2 RED-2A THERMO HW
• The double is 1 RED-2H THERMO HW

In 1983 GM listed the wire gauges in square mm. The wire gauge is always listed first, then the color, and then the circuit number.
There's a mm² to AWG translation table in the front of some of the earlier GM wiring diagrams that's not present in the 1983 diagrams. I know the 1979 wiring diagrams have this table on the first page.

1 RED-2H THERMO HW translates to;

• 1 means 1mm² or 16 AWG
• RED wire jacket but your new fusible link will be whatever color the manufacturer makes it... example Pico 8126PT and Dorman 85627 1.0mm² (16AWG) fusible link wire is BLACK. You can get the Dorman fusible link wire at O'Rileys.
• 2H is the GM circuit number so you can follow it through the diagram.
• THERMO HW tells us it's a fusible link.

[tucsonjwt]

Thanks hatzie. I was having trouble deciphering the text of the diagram.

So, I can just get a the 16 AWG fusible link from O'Reilly and splice it where the green wire was? The white balun cylinder is not a factor in the no start condition? That balun has a bit of missing insulation on the red wires coming in and out of it - can I just tape those exposed areas and leave it in place?

I have been repainting the inside of the truck, applying Iron Armor to the floor and firewall, replacing insulation, etc., so I have a lot of the wiring disconnected inside the cab. All was well as far as starting the truck until I noticed and replaced the fried fusible link with 12 gauge wire. I hope the new fusible link works.

Thanks again.

[hatzie]

Cut the wires off behind the balun and solder or crimp to the RED wires. Industry standard is a parallel crimp with adhesive heatshrink cover.

I'd just separate it into two fusible links and two primary wires rather than splice the two wires onto one fusible link... for reliability.

Typically a given harness segment is protected by fusible link that is four gauge numbers smaller.
A 14-gauge wire would be protected by an 18-gauge fusible link. A 6-gauge wire would be protected by a 10-gauge link, and so on. Odd number wire gauge sizes like 19, 15, 13 and 11 are counted when sizing a link.
The length of a fusible link should not exceed 9".

Both of those wires are 3mm² (12AWG). Four gauges smaller is 16AWG or 1mm² so I'd just put a 1.0mm² fusible link on each wire to replace that single piece and be done with it.

You splice the fusible link to the harness wire with a parallel splice. Quoting White Products info page... "Insert the stripped end of a fusible link and the stripped end of the cable being protected into a parallel connector as shown, and crimp. A parallel connector should always be protected with electrical tape or heat-shrink tubing."
https://www.whiteproducts.com/fusible-faqs.shtml

[andyh1956]

I would add that your "frayed" wire has been severely overheated & as such it is possible that it has melted some insulation from adjacent wires in the loom & they are making contact with each other & when you are handling it they "Make & Break" connections.
This could be the problem you are looking for.

[tucsonjwt]

andyh1956 - that is a good point. I see that there is bare wire on the two wire side of the white balun (visible in the pic) but that appears to be more like the wire became separated from the balun somehow, not burned. However, that wire is still solidly attached to the balun, so I don't know what went on there.

If the single wire coming out of the balun was burnt it still remains flexible, so I think it may still be OK. I will still change it out as hatzie recommends, but I will start with the green wire first.

I think I will look for the fusible links that are closest to the factory links. So far, the local auto parts stores don't seem to have those type of links in stock.

Thanks everyone for the input so far.

[andyh1956]

Look to a company called Waytek Wire for your 12V needs.
https://www.waytekwire.com/

[hatzie]

There are LittleFuse branded 14 ga & 16 ga blister-pak fusible links listed as in-stock at my local O'Rileys.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/b/l...6/f9cb53d1a561

[tucsonjwt]

Neither my local O'reilly's or any other local auto parts stores have them in stock - you can order from them and have them shipped to home. So, I will order them online.

Since single wire is 2 RED-2A THERMO HW and the double wire is 1 RED-2H THERMO HW, can I assume that I need a 14 AWG fusible link on the single wire and a 16 AWG fusible link on the double (or two 16 AWG fusible links if each wire has its own fusible link?)

It seems like I will pay shipping and tax on those little wires regardless of where I buy them, so I think will get a few of each ($2.59 for the 14 ga and $2.99 for the 16 ga) - I tend to be a repeat offender on automotive electrical mistakes.: I am getting them from The Repair Connector Store.

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by tucsonjwt

Neither my local O'reilly's or any other local auto parts stores have them in stock - you can order from them and have them shipped to home. So, I will order them online.

AHH well.. It was worth a try. Odd what The Borg stock and don't in different locations.

Originally Posted by tucsonjwt

Since single wire is 2 RED-2A THERMO HW and the double wire is 1 RED-2H THERMO HW, can I assume that I need a 14 AWG fusible link on the single wire and a 16 AWG fusible link on the double (or two 16 AWG fusible links if each wire has its own fusible link?)

Looks about right... It's probably easier to do two links rather than try to splice three wires together.

Originally Posted by tucsonjwt

It seems like I will pay shipping and tax on those little wires regardless of where I buy them, so I think will get a few of each ($2.59 for the 14 ga and $2.99 for the 16 ga) - I tend to be a repeat offender on automotive electrical mistakes.: I am getting them from The Repair Connector Store.

It's not difficult to find the fusible link wire online. Extra in the toolbox doesn't hurt either.

Now you get to find out what got hot and why.

[straight6chevyguy]

Am I just really stupid or is that a ford solenoid?

[andyh1956]

Look thru the Waytek catalog- they have some connectors that are, say 16G on one end & 10G on the other that make connecting two wires to one easy.
The Ford solenoid is used to relay the start signal to the GM starter solenoid so the voltage don't have to travel the length of the wire from the switch to solenoid resulting in more available voltage. A common modification in high heat / frequent start trucks & race cars.

[Justins76]

Originally Posted by tucsonjwt

Neither my local O'reilly's or any other local auto parts stores have them in stock - you can order from them and have them shipped to home. So, I will order them online..

I checked online and O'reillys has it instock at most of the stores in Tucson, both 14 (FLW14BP) and 16ga (FLW16BP) by littlefuse. Should be in the aisle with the fuses.

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by andyh1956

Look thru the Waytek catalog- they have some connectors that are, say 16G on one end & 10G on the other that make connecting two wires to one easy.
The Ford solenoid is used to relay the start signal to the GM starter solenoid so the voltage don't have to travel the length of the wire from the switch to solenoid resulting in more available voltage. A common modification in high heat / frequent start trucks & race cars.

You can use golf cart contactors too. It's just a high amperage DC contactor. Ford doesn't have a monopoly on that part.
It keeps the main power wiring away from the hot exhaust. It's more easily serviceable too. I'd rather do one of these fusible links up in the engine bay rather than flat on my back working over my head.

[tucsonjwt]

Yes, this is a Ford type solenoid. As andy1956 says, this was an attempt to overcome "starter heat soak" on my 454 (which some or most mechanics says does not exist). This was set up by a local auto electrical shop in Tucson. It is a NAPA Echlin brand solenoid. I also have a genuine GM high torque mini starter and dual start batteries. There is still a drag on the starter when the engine is hot. Even the mini starter is about 1/8" away from the exhaust. I had the same problem on my 73 C20 454, but a high torque starter and remote solenoid worked fairly well on that one (less smog junk hanging off the exhaust manifold, which gave a little more space for cooling the starter/solenoid.)

[tucsonjwt]

I am trying to return to the wiring configuration as close as possible to what I had prior to the fusible link failure. I think this was all factory type GM wiring to the remote solenoid prior to the failure of the fusible link, since it seemed to work fine prior to this latest mishap.

Justins76 - those links you cite are the DIY style of unknown length, and from what I read here and elsewhere the length of the link is critical to proper performance - no longer than 9" and I will need all of that 9" to make it to the hot side of the solenoid. Plus, my local O'Reilly's has been undergoing an inventory relocation, so nobody could find any fusible link wires of the type I have.

Andy1956 - I don't think a 10 ga connector would work to accommodate the two 12 ga wires on the "2 wires into 1 wire" connnection - which is probably why GM had that big balun thing connecting them.

My local NAPA store sells both the 14 ga and 16 ga Belden premade fusible links and the same sizes in 10' coils(to make your own fusible link assemblies.)
However, both styles require order and wait. I am tempted to make my own links but I doubt that I could get as professional results as the factory style assemblies. I read conflicting opinions about solder the wires, don't ever solder the wires, etc., so I am hesitant to make up my own links.

[tucsonjwt]

hatzie - I had one separate fusible link that fried (the green wire in the first pic), and apparently a second fusible link (pinkish red) coming from the single red 12 ga wire on the other side of the "two into one" 12 ga red wires going into the white nylon balun. That pinkish red link from the balun seems to still be flexible (so not yet blown?), but I plan to replace it also.

I have been working on the interior of the truck for the past few months, but just recently moved it to a new location in the yard. It started up and ran fine, but after recharging the batteries I had the no start condition and noticed the fried fusible link. So, even though all of the electrical connections are disconnected inside the cab, the ignition system was unaltered. I suspect that I must have got a direct short when moving the charging cables around in the engine bay. As you can tell, there are a lot of wires and terminals in the neighborhood of the batteries, and having two start batteries in parallel complicates things.

I might just rig up a replacement for the known bad link on the single wire, but I would have thought that the 12 ga wire I used in its place would have provided a strong enough connection to start the engine just once.

I guess I will look at the fuse block again and see if there is any more indication of a blown fuse in the ignition system. I do have lights and horn, so something is getting power from the batteries.

[hatzie]

Circuit 2 has two routes into the cab.
Usually one leg of Circuit 2 is routed through the J-Stud on the firewall. The other through the bulkhead plug.
Look at the wiring diagrams to verify where the wires actually run. Run some checks with a meter.

Is the short wire from the high amp stud on the starter to the S terminal in good shape?
Are you getting volts to the exposed strands between the balun and the 12ga wires from the harness?

[Justins76]

Yes, less then 9" total link. Making it an inch or so shorter from factory link wont hurt anything either. If you want the factory look (I can certainly understand that), hit a junk yard and look for some links. Newer cars have links up top near the engine bay fuse box instead of off the starter. Should be easier to get and in better shape since its away from exhaust heat near the starter. Get the link and a good length of wire its attached to and then you can splice into your normal wire further up and no one would be the wiser.

I redid the whole power distribution when I converted to TPI in my firebird. You can see the original orange links. The black links off a 02 camaro I used to make my dual fan harness. You can see the newer style is more like a heat shrink then a plastic barrel. Does the same thing, waterproofs the splice and provides strain relief. The fuse/distro block is off a newer Silverado of all things.

[tucsonjwt]

So, here is what happened.

I have had the truck interior and under hood items torn out to do a rattle can spray of both areas. I started on this about 8 months ago, but other matters intervened. I got back at it about a month ago.

I have quite a mess of wires in the battery/remote solenoid area: 2 sets of cables for the DIY dual start batteries, dump hoist cable, 4 wires for the aftermarket power window relay upgrade, smaller ground wires for various things, etc.

For some inexplicable reason, I routed the negative cable for the primary battery through a hole in the core support and left it hanging there. I think I just stuffed it there temporarily to get it out of the way, and never hooked it up to the battery. When I saw that I had a negative battery cable on the primary battery (which was actually the end of the secondary battery negative cable) I assumed that the batteries were connected correctly.

I took it into our local auto electric shop (who did the remote solenoid setup) and he quickly pointed out my error. I had him repair the damage, install new separate fusible links and restore stock battery grounding to the alternator bracket. He prefers battery grounding to the block but he said I had no suitable attachment points in the vicinity on my 454.

Occam's razor strikes again.

[Palf70Step]

Glad ya found it, and she is running again!