Issues fitting power steering pump to 305 V8 SB

[Arne]

I started test fitting the power steering pump and brackets that arrived today, part of my recent rack & pinion order from POL. And I'm now waiting for a response from POL's tech help.

I ordered a small block pump bracket set, standard Saginaw-type pump, and 2-groove pulley. The pump bracket set is said to work on both short and long water pump engines. I have an early '80s 305 SB with long water pump. When I loosely bolt up the whole assembly, the pump is too close to the block. There is not enough clearance for the upper slotted bracket to fit, and the pulley grooves are off by a whole groove (inner groove on the crank and water pump lines up with the outer groove on the 2-groove pulley). Additionally, the upper slotted bracket is supposed to go to the lower bolt on the water pump, but in reality the water pump casting doesn't have clearance at either bolt to mount an additional bracket.

So I'm stuck on this for now. Based on lining up pulley grooves, I'd need to space the pump and brackets about ⅝" away from the block. And I'd still need to do something different with the upper slotted bracket, as there is no where it will fit on the water pump.

It looks like all the other brackets I see offered besides Alan Grove's are essentially the same. Anyone else seen anything like this? Do the Alan Grove brackets space the pump farther away from the engine?

I've got it all unbolted now, but I'll re-fit it again tomorrow and take some pictures.

[Arne]

Pictures...

[forestb]

Do you have the instructions? It seems like some of those bolt should be going to the water pump or you have the pump too high on the block.

Also I don't have that much experience with bolt on pulleys but that bolt on the end of the pulley looks off to me.

[Arne]

Originally Posted by forestb

Do you have the instructions? It seems like some of those bolt should be going to the water pump or you have the pump too high on the block.

Yes, the instructions say that it can be mounted either high, or low on the block. I tried both, and the pictures above are in the high position. After some back and forth with POL Tech Support, I tried it a second time in the low position. And I now think that the low spot is better, and will probably work once we figure out what to do with the upper slotted bracket. Despite what the instructions say, that bracket will not fit on either of the water pump bolts, the pump casting does not have enough relief area around the bolts for this fairly stout piece to fit and pivot as needed. I'm waiting for another reply now. (POL has been reasonably responsive via email for this so far.)

Originally Posted by forestb

Also I don't have that much experience with bolt on pulleys but that bolt on the end of the pulley looks off to me.

Agreed, but that's a simpler problem. The pulley they sent appears to have been designed to use with a pump that has a longer shaft. I'm going to either need a different pulley, or a lock nut that's not as tall. Not ideal, but fairly easy to deal with.

[Arne]

Well, after much back and forth with POL support, I've decided to return this kit for refund. And reading the mixed reviews of the Summit kit (numerous complaints similar to mine), I'll probably order a kit from Alan Grove. Their long water pump kit is different than all the others, and will totally avoid much of my issues. Or so it seems...

[MT65]

Originally Posted by Arne

Well, after much back and forth with POL support, I've decided to return this kit for refund. And reading the mixed reviews of the Summit kit (numerous complaints similar to mine), I'll probably order a kit from Alan Groves. Their long water pump kit is different than all the others, and will totally avoid much of my issues. Or so it seems...

Have used Grove brackets many times, they make good stuff…..

[The Rocknrod]

Ya I'm using their stuff right now, no issues.

[forestb]

I have their stuff also. The belts all aligned well after install without any extra spacers. I recommend that you attach everything to the pump first and then take it over to the engine and bolt it on. Otherwise it gets really fittaly.

[Arne]

Quick follow-up - the Alan Grove kit fits up nicely. The pump is located forward just enough to line up both pulley grooves. Very nice stuff.

[The Rocknrod]

Originally Posted by Arne

Quick follow-up - the Alan Grove kit fits up nicely. The pump is located forward just enough to line up both pulley grooves. Very nice stuff.

Good to hear, thanks for the follow up on that.

[Arne]

Another follow-up — After fussing with all this for some time now, I've come to the conclusion that the pump-related parts I bought from POL (pump, brackets and 2-row pulley) probably would have worked on my long-pump set up IF I had an aftermarket (probably aluminum) water pump that had less cast ribbing around the bolt holes. The pump to engine clearance would have been quite tight, but I think everything would have lined up properly in the end. In that case, the only problem I would have had to deal with would have been the pulley hub being a bit long which would have required the pulley hub to be machined or a lower profile lock nut found.

What I've determined since I returned the pump brackets to POL for refund is that:

1.) The brackets from Alan Grove fit my engine correctly;

2.) The 2-row pulley from POL is non-standard and will only line up when using their pump brackets.

The pulley from POL differs from the factory specs in groove offset as well as having the above mentioned deeper hub. The factory 2-groove pulley has a hub that is ¼" shallower (which will fix the lock nut issue) and the groove offset is about ⅜" deeper. POL's shallower groove offset compensates for the tight pump-to-block mounting location.

For the record, the 2-row pulley I need (to accommodate future A/C) is GM #3941107DE with the following specs (courtesy March Performance):



Alan Grove configures their brackets to use factory-spec pulleys, and when I measure using these factory specs I can see that all will line up properly.

[Arne]

Final update. I have it all in place now, and am happy with the pulley groove alignment.

Getting this all sorted was a lot more hassle than I expected. GM must have equipped millions of long water pump small blocks with both power steering and A/C. So getting everything to fit and line up is not cutting edge stuff, but should be very routine.

Here's what I came up with in the end:

• Saginaw pump for bolt-on pulley (Performance Online)
• Steering pump bracket kit for long water pump (Alan Grove Components, #402L)
• Aftermarket factory-spec 2-groove steering pump pulley (GM #3941107)
• Used factory 3-groove crank pulley (GM #3972180)
• Existing factory long water pump 2-groove pulley (standard early '80s GM part)

Even with all this, mostly factory parts, I had to re-engineer the pump mounting a bit. While AGC says their parts are designed to use factory pulleys, when I mounted the pump per directions, the groove alignment was not correct (too far forward by about ½ a groove). Luckily, the design of the AGC brackets allowed me to substitute different spacers to move the pump back about 5/16". That made it all work.

I'm pleased with it all now, but it sure seemed to be a lot more difficult than it should have been.